'I know people have complained that none of the revenue the Ponds Co-op get from biking, including the car park fee, goes back into the trails, but I don't know how true that is…… '

That is 100% true. I have had it confirmed by the local FC office.

If the revenue's currently being used to maintain the trails by the FC, and the revenue will now go to the ponds, how are the trails going to reveive the funding for maintenance?
The new cafe should surely be aimed at the fishermen and we should find somewhere else?

If the revenue's currently being used to maintain the trails by the FC

Huh? It says there the revenue's not being used to maintain the trails.

Njee, should have put it better.
As I understand it, the ponds do not currently receive the revenue from the building and that may be about to change.

From what I understand Luffy pays the Fishing Co-operative a fair bit in rent for the cafe, and as part of his lease he's also responsible for the up-keep of the building.

I think when the building was first built it stood empty for a while as no-one was prepared to take on the tender for the cafe because they didn't think it would be profitable. To be fair, Ian's done a lot hard graft to make it work.

I've only been to the cafe once, and while I liked everything else the actual choice of meals was pretty limited- think I ended up with soup even though I wanted something more substantial!

Llandegla is my current trail centre cafe favourite.

To be honest, I couldn't care less if there's a cafe at any of the trail centres. I never use them anyway, I always take enough food with me for the ride and after.

From the comments regarding the staff and food quality, I guess that must refer to this year?

We've been going to Glencorwygg from when it was just a bit of scrub at the back of the industrial unit, although not this year. Always liked the ambience and the huge portions but a replacement might not neccessarily be a bad move. Let's hope that we don't get another replacement re: Sian & Daffyd at CyB…

Only thing that matters for me is that its not closing. Only thing changing are the people running it .. no worries.

Yeah that worked really well at CyB.

With all these facilities, if you don't use them you will lose them, and for the people who are driving there, taking all their own own stuff, and not using any local facilities what exactly do you think you contributing to the local economy?

If the answer is nothing, don't you think that might impact the future of this resource or are you happy to be all take, and no give?

The bad service and food comments dont tally with what we've ever experienced either…..always been good service when we've been.

We too havn't really been much in the last year, a couple of times at the most i think. It became a treat we couldn't afford anymore thanks to redundancy etc….and now we'd rather go to Brechfa! Far quieter too.

Nothing like abit of change hey?!

Terrible news. The Drop Off is a great facility when you're camping at GC – which I've done a few times this year.

Food has always been spot on and hit the mark each time.

It certainly is the best trail centre cafe in Wales. I really can't figure out why the FC get is so wrong elsewhere, it's not rocket science. It's not like other 'users' are excluded either.

With all these facilities, if you don't use them you will lose them, and for the people who are driving there, taking all their own own stuff, and not using any local facilities what exactly do you think you contributing to the local economy?

If the answer is nothing, don't you think that might impact the future of this resource or are you happy to be all take, and no give?

I don't travel to these kind of places to bail out the local economy, I go because their countryside has bigger hills than where I live. I used to ride in Wales before there were any trail centres and I still will if they disappear. Most of the riding I do away from home is "natural" anyway, with no cafe or bike shop at the start / finish to cater for those who aren't self-sufficient…

Well I think it's only right for the local community to benefit from the trail centres. However, I'm not entirely happy that glyncorrwg ponds pay nothing towards the maintenance of the trails.
I'd rather see some of my hard-earned being used to enable the trails to be expanded than pay towards the upkeep of a fishing pond.

ive always had good service and always pleased with the food (i'm normally starving though)

but i must say last time i rode there the trails seemed like they need some maintenance and if a different cafe contributes to the up keep of the trails that must be the better option, after all we are there to ride a nice cafe is a bonus.

Can't say I ever suffered from bad service or short changing in the 5 or so years I've been there. I even remember one time a mate was joking that his portion of lasagne wasn't big enough (it was huge) and the chap in charge overheard and promptly had another chunk brought over free of charge. Was most enjoyable watching my mate try to eat two enourmous portions of lasagne verdi and then go out for the second loop.

Hope it is replaced with something equally as good if not better

The service is very shonky most of the time, but we still like the place and the people.

Im suprised, i went last year and used the drop-off cafe, the breakfast was superb! was planning on a return trip before chrimbo so will sample the cafes delights one more time!

Just hope the replacement is just as good!

I've never visited the place so can't comment on that particular post-ride institution however…

If it's downfall is due to shonky (and possibly dishonest?) service, slightly dodgy quality food, rundown building and a general air of taking money for old rope then The Hub at GT wants to pay attention and perk itself up a bit before it goes the same way.

(At least no-one seems to be criticizing the coffee at The Drop-Off, whereas the muddy piss I got served in The Hub was the worst I've ever drank anywhere.)

Tbh I think a lot of trail centre cafes etc are happy catering to a captive market and using "atmosphere" as an excuse to keep quality and standards low.

The cafe at the Altura trail is good.. great choice of cakes, butties and hot meals..they have even thought of veggies for some reason!

I for one have nothing but praise for the drop off staff/building/food and thing its a bloody shame if they have to close. Been there loads and think they have a very consistently good cafe.

To be fair the only 'dodgy' service i seemed to have was from the girl(s) with pink hair. I've certainly had worse food (ie the FC place down the road run by the sweaty dinner ladies with beards)

However I question this:

With all these facilities, if you don't use them you will lose them, and for the people who are driving there, taking all their own own stuff, and not using any local facilities what exactly do you think you contributing to the local economy?

If the answer is nothing, don't you think that might impact the future of this resource or are you happy to be all take, and no give?

How many local people is this facility giving full time work to, is it benefitting the local community that much? I suppose it's providing oportunity for the youth – opportunity to get their hands on some nice bikes left unattended in the car park, but i do question whether it provides much economic stimulus to the area, as most people get there via the motorway, and i dare say 90%+ of money spent getting there, riding, eats and getting home are spent in your local garage filling up, the bridge (if you live in England) and possibly another BP garage no where near Afan on the way home so you have enough petrol in your car for Monday (at least that was my experiences when i lived near London).

How many local people is this facility giving full time work to, is it benefitting the local community that much?

Other than being a quite decent cafe, with good coffee that the locals use a lot during the week?

Just to clear up the above speculation i'll pass on what i know of the situation.

I have spoken to one of Ian Luffs oldest friends who happens to be mate of mine and my LBS owner too.

At the end of the year Ian's 5 year lease comes to an end. During that time he has done a damn fine job of attracting people to the area (the great trails helped too!). He has also upset a few people too (he speaks his mind!) mostly in the council. So, the lease was up and the lovely people behind Skyline Cyles have gone behind his back and snapped up the lease. Their own lease is longer than Ians and they seem to have better relations with the council.

Thats it in a tiny nutshell. It coincides with Ian wanting to move on anyway so he's more pissed off at the underhand nature of what Skyline have been up to more than anything!

The recent bad service some have experienced there is probably more down to just how busy the place gets at weekends, i guess they can't cope beyond a certain capacity?!

I have no idea what the Skyline guys are going to do with the place but i'm sure a cafe will continue. Although in my opinion Ian is a big part of the atmosphere and it won't be the same without him.

Ah hell no, I go there once or twice a week and if I don't get my Welsh rarebit, I get cranky!
Don't know Ian personally but I've seen him around, he's a nice guy and he's definitely part of the reason why its so bloody busy there these days!
Hope he stays involved somehow, we need people like him to keep supporting us bikers!

franki – Member

I don't travel to these kind of places to bail out the local economy, I go because their countryside has bigger hills than where I live. I used to ride in Wales before there were any trail centres and I still will if they disappear. Most of the riding I do away from home is "natural" anyway, with no cafe or bike shop at the start / finish to cater for those who aren't self-sufficient…

If you don't use the facilities there may i then ask why bother taking finger to keyboard and commenting on this topic??

Actually thinking about it i'm super impressed with your dedication to mountain biking without feeling the need to lower yourself into actually eating or spending your hard earned cash at these horrid trail centres.

Can i also ask what your packed lunch normally consists off, and do you normally prepare it yourself or by the hand of another?

Do you like Scotch Eggs?

They do big food, i like big food!!

Frankers wrote:

If you don't use the facilities there may i then ask why bother taking finger to keyboard and commenting on this topic??

Actually thinking about it i'm super impressed with your dedication to mountain biking without feeling the need to lower yourself into actually eating or spending your hard earned cash at these horrid trail centres.

Can i also ask what your packed lunch normally consists off, and do you normally prepare it yourself or by the hand of another?

Do you like Scotch Eggs?

Well that's me told then, eh? 😆

Scotch eggs are yummy. 😉

I emailed Ian yesterday, his response attached.

Thanks very much for your great words. I am amazed with letters of support on this matter. Yes, i believe the wrong decision has been made, but doesnt that always happen in successful Mountain bike ventures in Wales? I am deeply sorry for my staff really, they are the ones that will suffer the most.

I do believe the Bike shop has the proud ownership of the Cafe now, i do hope they will be successful. Unfortunately, they put a higher financial bid in for the tender, and money seems to talk in that place. I lost.

I havemuch more in the tank to give, the Glyncorrwg concept was a good starting point and great learning curve for the future and knew that people/past customers would critisicise/praise what has been. Its a great way to get honest feedback….help or kick when they are down to learn what to do and not to do for the future. All been noted.

Please, post some info/ feedback onto the online sites if you wish, this is where all important feedback will be seen for my next port of call.
Ill be posting updates through the online media of my progress for the future too

So, the lease was up and the lovely people behind Skyline Cyles have gone behind his back and snapped up the lease. Their own lease is longer than Ians and they seem to have better relations with the council.

Went behind his back or made a higher tender?

That's business I'm afraid.

Personally I've never had to complain about the quality of food or service at the cafe, but I don't go there on busy weekends.

Having said that, the guys in the shop are also very professional, so hopefully that will carry over onto the cafe.

franki – Member

Frankers wrote:

If you don't use the facilities there may i then ask why bother taking finger to keyboard and commenting on this topic??

Actually thinking about it i'm super impressed with your dedication to mountain biking without feeling the need to lower yourself into actually eating or spending your hard earned cash at these horrid trail centres.

Can i also ask what your packed lunch normally consists off, and do you normally prepare it yourself or by the hand of another?

Do you like Scotch Eggs?

Well that's me told then, eh?

Scotch eggs are yummy.

Sorry Franki, must learn to stay away from the keyboard after consuming 4 pints after my wednesday night ride 😕

well I like (d) it

last time I went with a mate we left home (Kent) 530am 27th December – it was about -10 degrees. Did a couple of Trails, then lunch, and another Trail after. Probably a coffee at the end too before 3 hr drive back

apparently this makes me a non MTB'er and I should have sat in the car park or up on top of a mountain somewhere nibbling frozen sarnies (which I do as well) but it was a good day out and I was glad cafe was there

Ahem. I DO go to Afan for the cafe.

The trails are good, but no better than plenty of other stuff in the area…

…and the thought of a massive plate of spicy potatoes goes a fair way in helping me decide where to ride.

Shame.

Hello all

Just thought i should get my 5 pence worth in and set the record straight.

My Tenancy for the last 5 years has been to GPC, Glyncorrwg Ponds Co operative, not the Council, Not the Forestry.

I must emphasise also that the Local Council NPT (Neath Port Talbot) and the Forestry have been very supportive to my cause over the last 5 years and have known all along my struggles with my present Landlord. There will be no love lost between us, and am sure things will change now im leaving. Good luck Skyline cycles.

There are too many issues to discuss about our history, but in a nutshell it comes down to the upkeep/Maintenance/build quality of the centre, its general management, and its future which is all the responsiblity of the GPC. My other very important concern is the trails and lack of love they are being given. Car parking does generate good Revenue and my concern is it all goes back into the Fishing ponds. No monies are fed back into the trails so we are left with trails that are slowly degenerating and wearing away with no/little maintenance to shout about.

Very interesting to read all your opinions about the cafe and trail centres in General, if i do get the opportunity to start another, then hopefully see you all there for some more shenanagins and thanks for all the support over the last 5 years.

Scruff

I must also state that the Car Parking is owned and Managed by the GPC and the trails are owned and Managed by the Forestry. Just so you all know.

Ill get my coat.

Thanks for that Ian. Interesting to hear exactly who does what there – have often wondered about the general upkeep of the building (worse for wear loos and the like) and the general state of repair of the trails. Anyhow, you will be missed, the coffee, cake, soup and those spicy tats were always welcome after a wet wintry ride and we look forward to your next venture. Does that mean your mum get's a break from baking! 😉

Frankers wrote:

Sorry Franki, must learn to stay away from the keyboard after consuming 4 pints after my wednesday night ride

That's cool. I was in a particularly arsey mood yesterday. Apologies for the tone of my posts too. 🙂 I don't usually set out to wind people up.

Car parking does generate good Revenue and my concern is it all goes back into the Fishing ponds. No monies are fed back into the trails so we are left with trails that are slowly degenerating and wearing away

That was what I thought.
So, no more GC car park for me.

Who were the guys in orange workwear on the Whites a few months back strimming & clearing drainage gullys etc? were they FC, as they were making a good job of it.

He looked at me and then I blushed

'Cause I remembered I loved you so much.
Way back then we were friends going together
but then you left me.
Frankie – do you remember me? Frankie – do you remember?