And they’ve got funny accents.

I used to pmsl in the coffee shops listening to them.. yurdlegurdlecoffeanapancake.

Martin – I don’t think the diet is better – and they have a much higher rate of tobbacco smokers. Life expectancy is very similar to here – I guess that the exercise counteracts the smoking and not so great diet. High dairy, high refined cards, losts of eggs

i know many successful adults who smoke regularly/every day who hold down well paid responsible jobs, raise their kids well and aren’t in debt etc etc etc

on the flip side i’ve also looked after people who’s lives have been permanently altered for the worse by the psychosis that appears to have stemmed from cannabis abuse. there’s a whole world of arguments out there on whether cannabis causes the psychosis or is just the trigger for something that would’ve happened anyway, possibly initiated by a traumatic event etc.

most of the ‘drug induced psychosis’ patients that i’ve worked with attribute their illness to the harder drugs.

i think ‘pre-disposition’ to mental ill-health is a HUGE factor, and it could be any drug that triggers the paranoia, psychosis, depression, anxiety etc etc… blaming cannabis for a rise in drug induced psychosis is too easy to do, especially when the media get involved…. just cos somebody smoked a little/experimented with tablets/powders at uni doesnt mean that’s the cause of the mental health problems 20 years later… but the history taken from patients on admission to an acute ward means it’s always asked about and always considered.

i don’t really perceive it as a ‘gateway’ drug either, most smokers i know dont do anything other than cannabis, most drug users who do the harder stuff dont really bother with cannabis as it doesn’t offer anything near the experiences they’re after….

Quite a few open comments here.. Neat.

But surely someones got to say.. “I puffed it but didn’t inhaile”
Or is that just Politicians talk..hmmm.

I’ve never touched the stuff, never been near a ciggy either nor any other “recreational” drug for that matter.

I’m just not keen on this “not being in control thing” I know some have the ability of kicking back, but me, well I relax in different ways.

They are taller too.

I was there for the Giro last year and have a mate who is 6’8″ and they all thought he was Dutch and started speaking to him in Flemish/Dutch at times made me chuckle.

TJ, is it only certain areas in the Netherlands you can use it?I.e Amsterdam etc or is it certain establishments all over the Netherlands?

be sure that most of the money generated by drug sales is used to fund significant criminal activity

Can someone explain this – presumably criminals think, aha, I’ll sell drugs, so that I can make enough money to keep my loss making hobby in prostitution going? Or am I missing the point – surely when people do the big bad ‘significant’ crime, they are doing it to make money, so I don’t see why they need the money from drugs in order to make other crime make money?

Joe

Martin – it (cannabis) is decriminalised and sold in shops anywhere in the country. there is fairly strict controls over how and when. for example cannabis “coffee” shops cannot sell alcohol. Limits on quantities that you can buy as well

There are rules about how near schools IIRC and so on.

Phil.. I agree completely with the pre-dispostion comment.

But… I think anyone that relies longterm on weed, is using it to substitute, or compensate for something, an inadequacy they feel in their lives perhaps.
They use it to hide from this reality and it seems to drive negative behaviour… too many people I know who smoke a lot regularly are compulsive liars… they live in a fabricated world alligned to reality, but it’s not real. They are ‘successful’ professionals and weed keeps them cocooned in a false happiness… they are not happy though.

Didnt we decrimialise it before? OR Was that declassify it?

Maybe a trail by the government in London / Manchester etc would be a good idea if what you’re saying is true?

Mind you, our government doesnt do common sense?

My only experiance with cannabis is seeing a mate monged all the time, so dont really see him now. I dont or never have touched drugs (well apart from caffine) or ciggaretts so its not a subject I know.

oops double post!

TandemJeremy – Member
Really – we are so different from our european neighbours? Have you ever been abroad?

Yes, and yes.
anyone who’s lived abroad would notice big cultural differences in eating and drinking habits, unless of course they were too stoned 😉

I dont rely on weed, I enjoy it as a recreation. I’m not a compulsive liar although like everyone else I am not absolutely honest in all circumstances. My happiness may not be complete but it is genuine. I have a great life, and pot enhances it, in the same way that cycling does.

mrtin – the government reduced its classification from “b” to “c” – and then after outrage in the press put it back to “b”

We are supposed to have a classiication of drugs according to the harm they cause – downgrading cannabis would be in line with the actual evidence.

This makes for interesting reading (note it has cannabis as C – its now B again

Whatever Sweepy… you’re an addict and you’re kidding yourself. You don’t fool me though 😀

Alcohol abuse in this country is mental.

I dont drink much, ill go out for a drink with mates for social. I know lads who go out to get smashed and I am sure there are people on here who do.

What damage does Alcohol cost this goverment every weekend? A&E Bills, Smashed windows, drink driving etc.

I have been in bars where blokes & women can hardly stand whilst ordering their drinks, yet still get served. Why? Why doesnt the goverments stop clubs opening until 8am in some places. Pubs should shut sooner etc.

Just saying.

anyone who’s lived abroad would notice big cultural differences in eating and drinking habits

Depends on which part of ‘abroad’ you are talking about. Here in Germany things don’t seem that different. Train carriages commandeered by loudly singing piss-heads, congealed puddles of puke on the pavement on a Sunday morning etc.

The French might see less alcohol fuelled mayhem but then again they have a big problem with deaths from liver cirrhosis.

Can someone explain this – presumably criminals think, aha, I’ll sell drugs, so that I can make enough money to keep my loss making hobby in prostitution going? Or am I missing the point – surely when people do the big bad ‘significant’ crime, they are doing it to make money, so I don’t see why they need the money from drugs in order to make other crime make money?

JoeThink the point is that canabis under it’s current prohitive status is just another one of many avenues open for criminals to swell their coffers, I don’t think they use the profits to suppliment other activities, though it could enable some to earn enough cash to start investing in other areas..

In my mind, since consumption is a given, legalisation and taxation is the only sensible option, I’d love to disascociate with any criminal element, current legislation prevents me from doing this. The law isn’t always in the right, and is in the wrong here imo.

I have been in bars where blokes & women can hardly stand whilst ordering their drinks, yet still get served. Why? Why doesnt the goverments stop clubs opening until 8am in some places. Pubs should shut sooner etc.

Kind of strange because I believe it’s illegal to be drunk in a bar.

Smoking weed is very much a chav thing these days, isn’t it.
Strange how it’s gone from hippies in the 60s to council estate scrotes these days.
(Grew up on a council estate before accused of snobbery anything.)

Whatever Sweepy… you’re an addict and you’re kidding yourself. You don’t fool me though

Well thank goodness im fooling myself then, thats the main thing 🙂

molgrips – Member

Depends on which part of ‘abroad’ you are talking about.

Sure does, was thinking more of the southern countries I guess….

Best thing is Sweepy that you probably won’t remember this conversation until 2020 or so.

Kind of strange because I believe it’s illegal to be drunk in a bar.

You go in any major city in the UK and see if its been acted on.

Its a drug, not a miracle- it wont cure chavvery. Wont cause it either tho.

Regarding addiction also, I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone is addicted to it…As with alot of people i’ve smoked it daily in the past for years on end(not because of any need to but because i wanted to) and when i did decide to give it up i had no withdrawl what so ever and gave it up instantly. I’ve also been to function normally in life, been through college never been unemployed in my life etc etc.. tbh i think alot of people use it as an excuse for their own personal life problems and lack of motivation.

Now i’m not saying there are no ills to it as i’d love there to be proper clinical tests on it so we can know for sure, what exctly the negatives are, which i’m sure there will be some..

Also regarding the psychosis side of things, i wonder if it could ever be developed into a diagnostic tool for these people?

Best thing is Sweepy that you probably won’t remember this conversation until 2020 or so.

According to the drugs talk we had at school i’ll be found dead in a public lavatory long before that anyway, Damn the evil weed 🙂

There is no addiction in the medical sense to cannabis – simply does not happen.

I think the lethal dose is about 3lbs, and it has to land on your head after being jettisoned from a smugglers plane 🙂

There is no addiction in the medical sense to cannabis – simply does not happen.

tj, i can only assume that you are a toker, because only tokers are so delusional as to believe that dope is not addictive.

i don’t care if that is a physical addiction or a mental addiction – two cheeks of the same arse as far as i’m concerned.

yours, an ex pot addict.

It’s a complex issue, no doubt about that. I’d like to see it taxed and controlled properly like many on here.
Then perhaps more research could be done and better support offered to those who struggle with usage.

I see it as a more positive drug than alcohol, again like many on here.

Until the 30th June 2011 I smoked each and everyday. During uni my intake was much heavier and I would regularly smoke during the day. Since leaving uni and getting a job I only really smoked during the evenings, maybe a couple of joints and usually one before bed.

I’ve noticed that when I was abroad and doing snowboarding or Riding I didnt notice not smoking it however I would often Switch to smoking lucky strikes or rollups – something I do when I’m drinking as well anyway.

I have noticed over the recent years a change in the weed available and that is a direct function of the govt. policies and boarder control due to terrorism. Now the majority is UK and people grow Canabis which is selctively bread to be very high in THC (the psychotic element) and low in CBN’s (the calming element that makes you mellow). This is a profit thing as they know that can grow poor quality weed that they can still sell as it will be very strong. However this isnt helping the psycosis side of things.

I think the best way for the govt. to deal with the canabis issue is to legalise and control it in the same way as alcohol. Issue licenses to grow it and be harsher on illegal growing for profit. It should be tested for strength before sale and clearly labelled in terms of thc and cbn content. It should be taxed as alcohol is. I would have had no problem with this. If you removed the dodgy contaminated weed and that which is stupidly strong and controlled the availability In the same way as alcohol – I can’t see the problem getting worse, mearly taking it out of the hands of those gangs in it for pure profit – the police know who the criminal gangs are and could see to it they don’t get licenses and that any illegal operations are harshly dealt with.

I can say honestly I know that prolonged use of canabis hasn’t helped my mental health. I have always been predisposed to being fairly depressive and at times manic depressive. I can’t say for certain that canabis caused this I think the signs were there before and I cant say for definite whether it promoted the depression at times but I suspect strongly it didnt help.

The issue of canabis and mental health is a contentious one as not enough controlled studies have been carried out. The much touted study that all the tabloids latch on to re: it causing schizophrenia is a particularly bad one as it was a very very sample group (15 ppl iirc) and they were predisposed to the condition.

I can say that I was useless at getting up in the mornings, was a lot lazier and passed up some opportunities because of it.

I quit on the 30th the day I signed my contract to go work in Oz. Im not saying it was easy – but it wasn’t as hard as I expected. Providing I didn’t put myself in the situation where I was sat at home not doing anything where I would usually just default to skinning up I have been on the whole ok. I have, I admit, spent more time in the pub and endded up drinking more – but that’s more as a result of not wanting to be sat at home where temptation and routine lie, rather than needing to get drunk to cope with not being high.

I have now been clean of weed for 19 day’s the longest in a decade. Last night I sat on sofa with a girl I care about who would smoke if I was smoking so it wasnt as if I was prohibited. I didnt drink either last night and had a total of one roll up.

I can honestly say that I’m happy i’ve stopped, I feel clearer head and happier – however that is a lot to do with where I am in my life at the moment – going to oz to work and for an adventure and meeting someone I really get on with – albeit weeks before I leave the country but I have a feeling it’ll work out.

I think as a long term user that quitting needed to be part of a life change and I don’t think I would have done it having just been remaining in the same routine.

Oh and im far more positive 🙂

(some of you know what a grumpy bugger i’ve been on here over the last few years and I don’t think you’d recognise the giddy Idiot I am this morning)

trailmonkey – its about understanding what addiction is. You do not get addicted to cannabis in the medical sense – simply because of the way it works and how that is defined.

Addiction is to do with the actions of the drugs and neurotransmitters and causes physical effects on withdrawal.

I have worked in drug rehab and I have seen people in the throes of withdrawal from valium, alcohol and opiates. Benzodiazepine and alcohol withdrawal can be lethal. heroin withdrawal rather unpleasant to say the least. Cannabis does not cause physical withdrwal symptoms.

“psychological dependence” is a somewhat controversial idea and is not an addiction in the medical sense.

Occasional use, the only bad thing is not wanting to get up the next day, but same goes for drinking and this comes without a hangover and is a lot cheaper than a night out. Only bongs now though, baccy makes me feel sick. Hasn’t affected my productivity at all really. I still do my work the same quality, and deadlines are always met. That being said it has made a couple of my friends pretty lazy, depends on your personality and mindset I guess.

Looking forward to BC bud 😉

“psychological dependence” is a somewhat controversial idea and is not an addiction in the medical sense.

In fairness TeeJ, as tm says, it’s two cheeks of the same arse (and that’s a phrase I shall be borrowing for down the pub 🙂 )

Addiction is to do with the actions of the drugs and neurotransmitters and causes physical effects on withdrawal.

how does that explain gambling addiction or sex addiction then ?

you see, i’d have a rather simpler definition of addiction – reliance on something whereby it’s withdrawal adversely affects a persons ability to function.

and that’s a phrase I shall be borrowing for down the pub

+1

It simply is not. Have you seen someone in the throes of withdrawal? Shaking, puking, heart rate climbing, bp dropping, uncontrollable sweats, severe pain, pupil reactivity altered, goosebumps. Real physical symptoms that can be measured objectively.

but do gambling or sex addicts function more poorly when they cant indulge?
IMO gambling and sex addiction do not exist, they are keen interests rather than true addictions
Maybe obsessions but not addictions

It’s funny though teej that someone working in re-hab would be that closed-minded or pedantic on the subject..

what about crystal meth addiction..?

they are keen interests

This is brilliant – I’m picking up excuses phrases for down the pub all over the place. 😀

TeeJ, I don’t think tm is saying they are physiologically the same thing – nor am I – but they are (drum roll) two cheeks of the same arse!