It simply is not. Have you seen someone in the throes of withdrawal? Shaking, puking, heart rate climbing, bp dropping, uncontrollable sweats, severe pain, pupil reactivity altered, goosebumps. Real physical symptoms that can be measured objectively.

My mate get in massive mood swings without it.

Its not about being of closed mind – its about understanding the issues.
have you seen someone in the throes of real withdrawal? I have on many occasions.

Ill not disagree that crystal meth is a more harmful drug, but even here the danger is exaggerated. All those stories about being ‘addicted after one hit’- Cobblers. Its just scaremongering, If you want people to make sensible informed decisions regarding drug use you have to give them honest facts.

how does that explain gambling addiction or sex addiction then ?

With the former they should really just get a grip on themselves, and the latter, we’ll what’s the problem? 😀

have you seen someone in the throes of real withdrawal? I have on many occasions

yes.. very close friends.. often.. for the last 20 years..

what about about crystal meth addiction..?

Its not about being of closed mind – its about understanding the issues.
have you seen someone in the throes of real withdrawal? I have on many occasions.

yup, my brother was and died, a heroin addict.

there’s not a great deal you’re going to teach me about addiction tj.

This is brilliant – I’m picking up excuses phrases for down the pub all over the place.

Dont get me wrong here, im not a sex or gambling addict, I think that people use the concept of sex/gambling addiction to justify poor behaviour.

what about about crystal meth addiction..?

Never seen it, no knowledge or experience of it. I have known users, I have seen people mess up on it,

We are arguing here about a definition of addiction and I prefer a strict medical definition not this nebulous concept of a “psychological dependence”

I get grumpy if I have not been out on my bike for a bit. Is this addiction withdrawal?

Dont get me wrong here, im not a sex or gambling addict, I think that people use the concept of sex/gambling addiction to justify poor behaviour.

check out mr due north on the moral compass

TJ that could be a medical dependance? I mean, when youre exercising the chemicals in your brain change, when youre not, well, they change?

check out mr due north on the moral compass

This harmonises very nicely with my post of m_f’s logo thread 🙂

I have seen (at arm’s distance thankfully), what gambling addiction can do – and I think that bookies, online gambling sites and casinos have a lot to answer for.

I don’t know enough about sex addiction to comment really, but I suspect a few people have used it as an excuse to be shagnasties here and there.

Trailmonkey, I dont mean to belittle your loss but what exactly killed your brother. Clean heroin of a known strength using clean equipment, at an affordable price is reasonably safe. Its when you have wild variations in quality/strength, no access to safe means of use and have to get involved in dangerous activitytofund it that the real dangers appear.
Like i say, I am sensitive to your loss, but it may be that if heroin were legal then your brother would be alive today, and a productive member of society who happened to take heroin.

Sure does, was thinking more of the southern countries I guess….

Like Spain, where kids hang out drinking calimocho in the streets till late at night?

Or Italy – in Rome where they had to ban drinking on the street?

Aye that may have been a bit judgemental regarding gambling addiction, gamblers are sucked in to a large extent by clever bookies ruses. I stand by it for sex addiction tho.

Sex, gambling, exercise… all provide chemical releases… highs if you wish.

Some people are addicted to destructive relationships… they’re addicted to misery.

sweepy – what’s your point ? if you read through the thread, you’ll pick up that i’m against prohibition

Sex, gambling, exercise… all provide chemical releases… highs if you wish.

These natural chemical releases are attainable doing something else though, so it’s not gambling or sex that is the addiction, it’s the endorphin release they are most likely addicted to… maybe there should be a program to turn gamblers in to mountain bikers or some such! 😀

Not all highs are addictive tho TSY, some are just fun, and some people take them too far and use addiction as an excuse.
Reasonable point about the addiction to destructive relationships tho, dont necessarily agree, but there may be something in it.

Yeah, but at some point the addiction to endorphin releases can become a problem.

I’m writing this whilst playing online poker on a spinning bike, drinking vodka and trying to get a girl to strip off on ****book.

From personal experience of recently quitting smoking weed recently. I didnt notice a physical addiction or associated withdrawal symptoms. The majority of the cravings are for nicotine and I’ve been smoking the odd cigarette to help with this.

The main issue I’ve found with quitting after being a long term smoker is that it’s habit forming – you end up smoking out of routine and in certain situations because thats what you have always done and it’s now weird not too.

That said nearly 3 weeks down the line I don’t really think about it.

I’m writing this whilst playing online poker on a spinning bike, drinking vodka and trying to get a girl to strip off on ****book.

i’m not taking my top off until you answer my question about commitment

I have often thought that getting junkies to exercise would be a useful tool in helping end their opiate addiction.

trailmonkey – can we keep the word “addiction” for the opiates, benzos and alcohol ( and anything else)with the serious physical effects of withdrawal and use another word for dependence on cannabis ,gambling and exercise? Mayb e “psycological dependence”????

I see using addiction for less serious things like cannabis as downplaying the life threatening addiction and withdrawal of such things as alcohol.

Trailmonkey, my point is that many people blame drugs for problems that are caused by their legal status, then use that as a reason for justifying that legal status. My belief is that as a result of this people suffer, and sometimes even die. And not just those actually using.
We need to change the way we manage drug use or this will continue, and open discussion is the first step.

Trailmonkey, my point is that many people blame drugs for problems that are caused by their legal status

yeah ? well i don’t/haven’t/wouldn’t.

normally the first thing i do when i wake up is smoke weed, in fact im stoned right now and will be for the rest of the day, week, year… 🙂 dont normally take it with me when i ride though, make me go all wobbly.

peopel may say thats not good but i used to be a right junkie and take speed every day so for me its a heather life style than the one i had as a teenager or in my early 20’s

In summary a lot of the STW massif are pot heads 😀

Yes, we know you are ilovemygears. 😯

TrailMonkey just give me a sneaky peak… a bit of nipple… goooo on.

Thats fine Trailmonkey, This was never any comment about you personally, or your family. It was an opinion on drug use and legislation in society.
I appreciate that this may be a topic close to your heart, and I am genuinely sorry if I have offended you.

no way, the top stays on.

a productive member of society who happened to take heroin.

how many of those are there compared to people like this?

A suprising number Mr Smith.

they never come to the attention of the public at large so folk don’t realise.

We only see and get to know about problem drug users – not drug users with controlled and non chaotic lifestyles. Same as alcoholics. Plenty high functioning alcoholics around

i used to work with a heroin addict who worked as a receptionist. i dated her for a while, not all junkies act like it, i used to work and take drugs at work, i worked to pay for them.. 🙂

Zero time for it, but then I’ve never felt the need to artificialy take myself to another place.
People smoking it in public have no respect or at least don’t show it.
It’s ilegal (isn’t it) it stinks like burning socks and makes people look like mongtards.
And why do dopeheads have a hissy fit if someone lights up a B&H?

For the record I’ve had two joints in my life.

Nah, to me it says ‘look at me I’m a bit ****’

Well if we all liked the same things the queues would be horrendous. I’m not saying it should be compulsory, just that we should be able to make our own choice based on the facts. I have the same view about tobacco by the way although I dont smoke it myself.
And if I want to look like a **** mongtard in the comfort of my own home then surely thats my choice too

oldgit – no drinking?

A close family friend consumed a lot of cannabis from his teens through to mid/late 20’s.

He only stopped after he was committed for schizophrenia after trying to drive a digger through a bank wall…he used to try to escape from the institution but they took his clothes so he ended up sat in a mental hospital naked receiving ‘treatment’.

On a happy note, he doesn’t touch drugs now and is happily married with a 5 year old daughter. Although I believe he still has regular counselling.

One of my mates took up cannabis at university and he went from the party animal who always organised trips to various nightclubs at the weekend to someone who hardly ever went out.

On another happy note, he doesn’t touch the stuff anymore and we have our mate back.

It’s ilegal (isn’t it)

See the thing about legality is it isn’t set in stone. Legal status can change at the drop of a hat when society decides it wants to and laws don’t change becasue everyone follow the rules all the time. Either that or things like slavery would still be legal.

Read back through some posts and saw someone mentioned that smoking cannabis is a ‘chav’ activity now.

Me and the wife went for a posh dinner in Chelsea on Saturday and as we were walking past the Manderin Oriental Hotel at Hyde Park there were some posh types wearing posh suits and fancy dresses.

They definately were not smoking cigarettes.

I’m sure it’s a ‘chav’ activity if you’re walking through a council estate, but if you walk through Chelsea/Kensington, it’s an activity of the rich.

McHamish – there is a clear link between cannabis and mental illness but what the link is is greatly debated. Unfortunately decent research is hard to do due the illegal status.

3 hypothesis
1) cause – cannabis causes mental illness
2) trigger – cannabis can trigger mental illness in susceptible individuals
3) coincidence – people likely to develop mental illness tend to use cannabis. Some folk with mental health issues also self medicate with cannabis

Myself I like the trigger hypothsis.

oldgit – no drinking?

Very little, I’ve been to the pub twice this year and both were cycling meetings.

Another thing though I confess I don’t really know any of the facts, is the history of how your drugs get on your plate so to speak. My impression is that most people who smoke the stuff wouldn’t want to be involved in the world that grows and supplies the stuff.