[Closed] Disc Brake injuries at Paris Roubaix

Luddites gonna Ludd.

This

Road racing is dangerous. Adding discs will possibly make it slightly worse, but more people had none disc injuries last weekend, I'm betting.

Performance wise, they make more sense for us mortals than racers though.

Woah! How can this be a proper disc brake thread and yet not a single person has said: 'but I can lock my wheels just fine with a rim brake, more than enough power...etc.'?

🙂

Ban discs and keep motorbikes
Ban motorbikes and keep discs

Which one makes more sense...

None of the above.

Stick a shroud over the disc, fixes the problem of people potentially being hurt by a sharp/hot disc.

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And on the road discs aren't going to make you faster, being as they are marginally heavier and less aero, but there are advantages for us mere mortals.

Interesting thought. On a flat road at a constant speed - agreed. But as soon as you through in acceleration and deceleration then moving weight from the rim to the hub may help (see the comments on different rim designs) - and that would certainly interest the sprinters, and possibly the climbers and GC guys. But (again) less rim weight means less stability which might affect descents detrimentally . But the bike would turn more easily that might improve hairpin descents.

But it would all be marginal.

TheDoctor wins spaz comment of the day, and it's not even time for elevenses yet, Bravo!.

Did Sagan have them fitted?. He could have sliced Spartacus clean in half as he wheelied over him. 🙄

drum brakes, that's what we need, really big drum brakes, then you can have your aerodynamic non-wearing rims with wide tyres, and no chance of having all your sticky-outy fleshy bits sliced off by dangerous discs, mark my words, 2017 is the year of the drum brake 😀

Stick a shroud over the disc,

Wouldn't be surprised to see this. Also covering the calliper to make it a bit more aero.

TheDoctor wins spaz comment of the day

Wow, that's a phrase you don't hear much in the 21st century. At least, not when you are married to someone with cerebral palsy.

I'm actually struggling to visualise how someone gets hit with a roadie disc - because it's not like they use giant 240mm rotors, they're much smaller, inside the fork.

I mean, i'm sure its possible to hit the disc, just practically speaking here.

drum brakes, that's what we need,

Morecash - apologies, I didn't intent it in that manner.

I would feel a little uncomfortable riding a chaingang with folk on disc braked bikes, its an unnecessary hazard.

Why?!
In a chaingang, clubrun or even in a road race, no-one is slamming brakes on. Everything is smooth and consistent and flowing and you can adjust speed using near microscopic adjustments in pedalling or tiny feathering of the brakes.

If you're slamming brakes on, you're [b]already in[/b] a serious situation - a car that's pulled out, a crash in front etc in which case there's probably a big group of you going down anyway. That's just the nature of being in a tightly packed bunch.

You watch that P-R footage at Arenberg. There's the initial crash (Docker) then at least 3 other sub-crashes at various points as riders swerve, brake, skid.
Then the moto hits Viviani (because he's also slammed on the brakes, skidded and dropped it).

I made a hole in my hand with a 2mm allen key the other day when I was changing pads on my rim brakes.

Well yes. Have you ever ridden a bike?

Is it worth considering crashing less? They seem a clumsy lot these roadies, always breaking collar bones and scraping their bottoms on the Tarmac.
If you want to complain about contact injuries, surely consider wearing some contact protection? They wouldn't even wear helmets until forced to! Cake and eat it etc.

[b]Singletrack[/b]world. You know, forum off the back of that [u]MTB[/u] magazine, and we're getting disc hate! 😆

simondbarnes - Member

There is ONE advantage to discs and thats lack of rim wear

Disc brakes are massively superior to rim brakes in the wet. So that's two things at least.

Three - slightly out of true wheels aren't an issue with discs.

@gaze.

Chorizo ... Ouch.

Singletrackworld. You know, forum off the back of that MTB magazine

There is a magazine!?!!!??

I would have thought you will end up needing some pretty big rotas for the alpine decents?

I would have thought a road bike doing a long decent would generate more brake heat than a DH MTB because the braking is a constant, rather the DH where its feathering??

There are WAY more scary things to worry about in a chain gang than brake discs. Poor group riding skills at the top of that list.

I would have thought you will end up needing some pretty big rotas for the alpine decents?

I would have thought a road bike doing a long decent would generate more brake heat than a DH MTB because the braking is a constant, rather the DH where its feathering??

No cos you don't drag brakes - a dab on entry to the corner is usually all that's required. Riders will look ahead and use riders 4 or 5 places ahead (or the race motos) to judge speed and the turn and obviously they've got the full road. If anything it's far less braking required than a regular rider on an open road Alpine descent and I've quite regularly gone for 5 miles or more on mountain descents with only tiny bits of braking required even on rim brakes.

Crazy - really? I have come off Alpe d'Huez over 60mph in some sections, you need to scrub at least 30-40mph off to get around the hairpins.

Ok full road will make some difference, but not that much??

[i]Wow, that's a phrase you don't hear much in the 21st century.[/i]

I haven't heard it 'in thew wild' since I was about 15, so 35 years ago I was a bit uncomfortable with it then. Now it reads like someone using the N word.

Crazy - really? I have come off Alpe d'Huez over 60mph in some sections, you need to scrub at least 30-40mph off to get around the hairpins.

Ok full road will make some difference, but not that much??

But you still don't need to drag brakes. If anything LESS braking is required since discs are more powerful. Come barrelling in at 60mph, 5 seconds on the brakes you're down to 35ish, whip round the bend and back on the power. There's not going to be any heat build up that the system can't deal with. Finned pads, heatsink rotors and a 50mph airflow.

The only time my disc braked CX bike loses out on road descents is on fast open stuff where it simply can't keep up with normal road bikes (lower gears, wider tyres).
As soon as the going gets technical, twisty, rough surfaces etc, I'll just fly straight past and use the far superior braking power - while the rim-braked bikes will be dragging all the way down I can let it go then use the extra power to slow down when I need to.

Woah! How can this be a proper disc brake thread and yet not a single person has said: 'but I can lock my wheels just fine with a rim brake, more than enough power...etc.'?

Shhhhhhh, they've already used the argument that;

I would feel a little uncomfortable riding a chaingang with folk on disc braked bikes, its an unnecessary hazard.

The faster rate my road disc equipt buddy slows down has been a factor for those of us behind him who are on rim brakes.

You're getting dangerously close to pointing out a great big (160mm) sized inconsistent hole in their argument against disks!

It's beautiful really, like watching a machine become self aware, but let's not rush them.

Stick a shroud over the disc, fixes the problem of people potentially being hurt by a sharp/hot disc

and could improve aerodynamics. If getting injured by bike parts was a genuine concern they'd have fitted carbon fibre bash rings to chainsets (that weigh about 2g and probably enhance aerodynamics) years ago. But it's not. It's finding a reason to justify natural resistance to change.

are something nobody in the pro ranks was calling for.

They weren't clamouring for helmets either. In fact they used overheating as an excuse as to why they shouldn't have to wear helmets. Funny that pros now are all wearing helmets with the vents covered. The previous generation had to accept the change, the current generation have grown up with helmets and it's a non-issue.

would have thought you will end up needing some pretty big rotas for the alpine decents?

Probably need at least A4 to write it out

As soon as the going gets technical, twisty, rough surfaces etc, I'll just fly straight past and use the far superior braking power - while the rim-braked bikes will be dragging all the way down I can let it go then use the extra power to slow down when I need to

Why do people with rim brakes drag? I've got both road disc and rim brakes and the difference is in having to break earlier, not constantly unless it's one of those windy roads where you need to dab the brakes quite frequently to avoid getting onto the wrong side of the road (not a pro concern obviously).

Why do people with rim brakes drag?

Or maybe they just don't know what they are doing.

Can't think of any other reasons.

Downhill, heavier riders may need to drag a brake to stay in place, but they would still need do that with discs. I think the suggestion is they dont stop quick enough, which is not my experience riding lots of alpine switchback stuff.

Apology accepted - sorry if I came across as over sensitive.

All of crazy-legs friends are mechanically inept and can't set brakes up.

Or maybe they just don't know what they are doing.

Entirely possible but this is something I've witnessed many times when I've been road riding on my CX bike, it's not just friends.
And I'm a crap descender too so maybe *everyone* is just crap but I've got more skill compensation with disc brakes...

I do tend to drag my brakes on the road bike as I'm heading towards a braking point, as I'm never too sure how quickly they will bite if its in the least bit damp. Basically a quick clean of the rim prior to full braking.

I can't see the 'hot disk' argument at all though in the peloton - on descents when the disks could get up quite a heat they are generally strung out, and group crashes are rare. Big crashes occur in the bunch, when (because) no-ones on the brakes, so there may be a moment of braking as you crash, but not enough to build up any heat.

Modulation and opportunities for rim design are the big plusses, wheel changes the negative. Safety is a non-starter of an argument.

Is anyone here a pro cyclist and actually able to comment with a semblance of credibility rather than just making things up? 😉

I do tend to drag my brakes on the road bike as I'm heading towards a braking point, as I'm never too sure how quickly they will bite if its in the least bit damp. Basically a quick clean of the rim prior to full braking.

Paris-Roubaix (and any road race I guess) may allow some advantage to be gained from the fact that dings in the rim and minor out of trueness can be tolerated without brake rubbing, therefore you could do better through avoiding having to have a wheel or bike change, but it's all a tradeoff.

[url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/chris-froome-wary-of-disc-brakes-in-the-peloton-in-2016-207670 ]http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/chris-froome-wary-of-disc-brakes-in-the-peloton-in-2016-207670[/url]

“I tried them on mountain bikes but not on the road bike,” Froome told La Gazzetta dello Sport last week. “However, as a matter of safety, I say that they should be used by everyone or no one at all. Having a group different brake systems would increase the dangers.”

... which seems like a reasonable standpoint from the racing side of it all.

... which seems like a reasonable standpoint from the racing side of it all.

No it doesn't, it sounds like a pro cyclist caught off-guard by a question, having to actually think for himself and coming out with a pile of bollocks!

There's already massively different braking standards in use in the peloton. Aluminium rims vs carbon rims for example.

I can understand their concerns, but i'd also expect a pro to quite easily learn how to modulate their braking effort on different systems, and to match their speed to others around them. Surely each rider has a different braking point already, based on their skill/bravery?

PS - I can think of a braking system which is renowned for being really good at modulation...?

Avid/SRAM 😉

That despite the squidgyness of old Avids too. Bleeding aside, modulation was the best thing about them. SRAM Guides have fixed the squidgy and bleed issues and are awesome brakes now.

How that translates to road brakes though I don't know. Though I wouldn't want binary on/off grabby brakes when hitting high speeds on the road.

Facebook post by the injured rider.

*warning contains some gruesome images*

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TBH, it looks an awful lot like the scar on my knee I got from falling onto the road when I was 6. I peeled the skin on my left kneecap back and had it stitched back on just like that but with wire twists not staples. It was 30 years ago, and disc brakes weren't being used on bikes. Shit happens.

No it doesn't, it sounds like a pro cyclist caught off-guard by a question, having to actually think for himself and coming out with a pile of bollocks!

There's already massively different braking standards in use in the peloton. Aluminium rims vs carbon rims for example.

I'm told where he was coming from, after Bernie Eisel used them at the 2015 Eneco Tour for a test, was that the difference in braking power between rim brakes and discs meant it was safer for everyone to be on brakes with similar stopping characteristics.

Arguably the difference between carbon and aluminium rim brakes is somewhat less than that between any rim brakes and discs.

But hey, why keep things theoretical. How about you and me go for a quick descent of say Winnats, with me in front using discs and you on my wheel with rim brakes then, at a given signal, we both brake as hard as possible and see what happens.

Obviously if you are correct we will be both be fine and if you're wrong, I will have been proved mostly right, Froome will have been vindicated and we will both be picking gravel out of our knees or worse... 🙂

I think the problem here is they have taken those little orange warning stickers off their discs.