enfht if you feel the road is too dangerous, walk on pavements. Its not fair on pedestrians having to cross roads and keep alookout for potential other hazards on the pavement as well. Last week a lad was run over and killed by a truck on my commute-route. These things happen. I'm not going to inconvenience others though if I felt the roads were too unsafe to ride on.

Pedestrians don't have to cross roads or keep a lookout for me, I do that for them, responsibly. That's the difference. Why should I risk death for the sake of an imaginary scenario which in reality I avoid from occurring? Hora are you actually familiar with the shocking level of third-world driving standards in London?

dorset echo better coverage and comments

accident and both very unlucky – general condition of pedestrian meant some operations after accident not possible

all sorts of different punsihments for offences re drivers, cyclists and muggers and burglars

loads of pavements in kent are mixed pedestrain and bike lanes

what about 15mph on a bridleway??? loads of blind corners too!!!

To be honest if a jogger knocks someone over and kills them they should be in serious trouble anyway IMO.

I don't see why. What about if I just bump into someone walking? What if a child roller skates along a pavement and an old lady falls over? What if someone trips over a twig?

Why can no-one on these threads accept the possibiity of accidents occuring? Everything isn't someone's fault, and even if it were I fail to see the utility of locking people up (at huge expense).

Because a jogger has chosen to jog along the pavement and should ensure they are doing it safely and considerately. Barging into another pedestrian causing them to fall over and die is pretty reckless.

I count accidents as things that happen without human intervention, e.g. ice on the road, twigs on pavements, branches falling off trees. Under our stupid blame culture all those things proably have someone to blame as well but to me they are genuine accidents

Hora are you actually familiar with the shocking level of third-world driving standards in London?

Almost 7yrs of commuting from West Hampstead into Oxford Circus.

I had to cross the notorious Swiss cottage junction daily on my way to Regents Park!

Its really sad re the 20yr old lad however, again why did the lad at a reported 25mph running down and killing a young girl on a pavement get off with community service last year?

"I count accidents as things that happen without human intervention, e.g. ice on the road, twigs on pavements, branches falling off trees"

accidents must be based partly on intentions – human thoughts etc must be a big part in whether its a accident

ice on road – driving at 60mph in a country lane???? or driving at 10mph and crashing

ice on road is natural occurance (unless building the road is human intervention)

do animals have accidents – yes I hit a badger (it was ok)at 20mph on a night ride went between whells and under back one(thumbs up for vpp suspension)

offroad everything to do with stopping on rocks/stones etc – so whose not been round a tight bend on a bridleway (shared use of course) at over 15mph???

Because a jogger has chosen to jog along the pavement and should ensure they are doing it safely and considerately. Barging into another pedestrian causing them to fall over and die is pretty reckless.

Well the "causing them to … die" bit isn't right, since you could bump into someone and they fall over 1000 times and 999 times they would not die. The dieing would be due to some other unfortunate circumstance, i.e., luck.

As for bumping into people when jogging… it's pretty difficult to avoid sometimes when people jump out from behind trees, suddenly veer across your path without warning, or many other such dumb things that people do, I regularly have to take avoiding action. If I did knock someone over it would not be my fault, it would be theirs, and I tend to think the same about cycling on shared paths. I'm going not too fast and keeping an eye out, that's my side of the bargain, but if someone doesn't look where they are going and steps into my path, they (at the very least) share responsibility for any untoward outcome.

Well Hora it sounds like you played Russian Roullette and won so lucky you.

when people suddenly veer across your path without warning, or many other such dumb things that people do, I regularly have to take avoiding action. If I did knock someone over it would not be my fault, it would be theirs, and I tend to think the same about cycling on shared paths. I'm going not too fast and keeping an eye out, that's my side of the bargain…

But thats not your side of the bargain, your 'side' is to be riding responsibly and not putting others at risk from your actions. If they cant/dont see you when they decide to cross a shared path then your the one thats going to cause the damage (by virtue of you being the one who is going to hit them), in this case of a shared path you should be in a position to avoid this collision, ie. by slowing down when you get near them. Tho we have let you off for the ones that appear out of nowhere, been there myself, where the hell do those people come from!?

In 2007, cyclist Peter Messen – who killed a pedestrian while riding on a pavement in Cornwall at 25mph – escaped with 300 hours of community service.

Thats wrong.

RealMan – Member

In 2007, cyclist Peter Messen – who killed a pedestrian while riding on a pavement in Cornwall at 25mph – escaped with 300 hours of community service.

Thats wrong.

Wasn't he that person who was mentally handicaped and deam as not fully understanding his actions?

"In 2007, cyclist Peter Messen – who killed a pedestrian while riding on a pavement in Cornwall at 25mph – escaped with 300 hours of community service.

Thats wrong."

as far as i can remember he had learning difficulties, and didn't even own the bike.

People are concentrating way too much on the headlines here. Theres always more to it.

in reality we only need one law "don't act like an idiot". Then it would be perfectly possible for people to cycle on pavements.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/348193/cyclist-who-killed-pedestrian-escapes-jail-sentence.html

So how about cheeky trails then?? Whats with cycling on them?

shocking level of third-world driving standards in London?

I always felt London was much safer than the rest of the UK for cycling – there are loads more cyclists on the road so people are expecting them, traffic is almost always going slowly, so you're going the same speed or faster than it, and generally drivers are much less likely just to be completely asleep, because there's enough going on to keep them awake. And I used to commute on the A3, go across Hammersmith Roundabout, Vauxhall, Elephant & Castle etc. which are some of the busiest junctions in London.

If you ride carefully and watch out for what other people are up to, there's no need to be on the pavement in London.

Joe (Commuted in London for 5 years, outside London in Surrey & Nottinghamshire for about 5 years too.)

So how about cheeky trails then?? Whats with cycling on them?

Same rules as on BWs – don't run into people.

This was another case:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Rhiannon-Bennett-Teenager-Killed-By-Cyclist-Family-Hit-Out-As-Biker-Sentenced-With-A-Fine/Article/200807215029710

– it's not described in the link, but allegedly she'd stepped into the guy's path at the last minute…

i think in the other case (above) the collision *probably* took place on the road, but as all the news reports said she hit her head on the pavement, eveyrone assumed the cyclist was on the pavement.