I read over the weeekend that the winner of "I'm a waste of time and space and what am I doing here" .. who by the way is a chef... was charged with cruelty to animals for killing and cooking a rat.
discuss ?
( I mean really.. would he have been charged with cruelty if he killed a cow?.. FFS he's a chef.. they sometimes kill things )
was he cruel to it, or did he just kill it?
Cruelty to rats is something I find it remarkably easy to live with, by and large. 
I suspect "kindness to rats" is both rare and remarkable, cruelty is humanity's usual posture towards the species.
andy.. not really sure.. I suppose if he tormented the thing I could see the point ( a little bit.. it is/was a rat after all ) but no.. if he just killed it and ate it I don't see the point of the cruelty charges.
something else I saw attributed to Peter Kay.. If we weren^t meant to eat animals why are they made from meat ?
Biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Typical moaning Aussies.
Cruelty to rats is something I find it remarkably easy to live with, by and large.
Cruelty to any animal isn't nice, big or clever. But killing and cooking one really isn't a problem.
theres apossible 3 years in prison too for them...gu;p thats what they said on tv..
I suspect "kindness to rats" is both rare and remarkable,
It depends upon your viewpoint. Kindness to rats is paramount in animal research facilities*.
*Until you need to drill holes into their skulls, inject neurotoxins, insert cannulae for the introduction of various chemicals, then later kill them (manually, as anything chemical may **** up the experiment) and scoop their brains out with a teaspoon whilst their jaws are still twitching. How I miss my days in animal research...
Isn't modern society a wonderfull thing, as long as its in the name of reaserch anything goes.
Once worked in a hotel where an animal reaserch company had a conference for all their global clients. They hired out the whole hotel for a week no staff were allowed into 'live' conference rooms, employed their own security team and locked the hotel down and even set up a temp heliport in the grounds. All a little cloak and dagger, bit scary really.
as long as its in the name of reaserch anything goes
entirely false, but hey..
I hadn't fully grasped the lameness of this story, but have now read Peter's link. This is just policemen wanting their 3 minutes 22 seconds of fame, possibly aided and abetted by the publicists of the next reality television show to be cancelled due to lack of interest. 
Out of genuine curiosity Andy, say you're getting really close to a cure for cancer, and rats are going to have to help. What can a researcher not do to them, and where are the rules set down?
Sorry Andy I'll have to plead ignorance about the subject, but as BD says what defines research vs cruelty in that kind of field?
ah..aeons ago and only involved in 2 projects so unaware of how far the 'limits' stretch.
But very rigorous stuff to go through, qualifications and applications to Home Office for every bit of research involving animals, reports on an ongoing basis etc. Regular inspections too to ensure wellbeing of animals and that you're sticking to your application.
(clearly, yeah, in the end they get used for some reason or other, but in the meantime they get treated a lot better than most would think. Interestingly we never got taken up on any of our offers to the animal rights folks picketing the entrance gates to actually come and have a look around...might spoil the brainwashing 
)
I've been to a couple of slaughterhouses through work, that's quite a tough job. Similar thing there with protestors picketing outside, again strangely refused a tour of the facility. Was chatting to our butcher and farmer about the lack of pasture to plate awareness on Friday.
I do find it odd that they are prepared to charge them with cruelty to the rat (which was despatched in a humane way so I am led to believe) but at the same time they film, on an almost daily basis, contestants eating live cockroaches, grubs, worms etc.
Very odd.
Assuming all he did was kill and eat it I fail to see why it is cruel - well unles sthey wish to tunr thier nation veggie for the same reasons.
I also heard on Radio 4 I think possibly 5 that the rats are specially bred rats. They breed and release them just for the show to make sure they are diesease free for H & S reasons.
It's well 'core that show, isn't it? 
I do find it odd that they are prepared to charge them with cruelty to the rat (which was despatched in a humane way so I am led to believe) but at the same time they film, on an almost daily basis, contestants eating live cockroaches, grubs, worms etc.
As I said on the other thread about this, they are allowed to kill things on telly as part of a show (see "Kill It, Cook it, Eat It", Ray Mears or Bear Grylls).
The real (less headline worthy) story was that the production crew failed to notify the RSPCA or Animal Welfare, so there was no one there to make sure it was done humanely. That's all.
I suspect "kindness to rats" is both rare and remarkable
An ex-colleague keeps rats as pets. She used to have pictures of them on the wall of our shared office.
so there was no one there to make sure it was done humanely. That's all.
Seriously? When a rat dies, unless the RSPCA is notified, there may be a prosecution for animal crulety?
This only applies to rat deaths near "celebrities", doesn't it?
This is just policemen wanting their 3 minutes 22 seconds of fame
That's 0.22 milli-Warhols.
I've killed 2 rats and 2 mice in the last couple of weeks.
I've killed 2 rats and 2 mice in the last couple of weeks.
No wonder you were ill last week. It's karma..! 
(Recovered from the Manchester lurgy?)
You need an air rifle and patience. Very satisfying, though, I have to say.
seeing as the whole thing was filmed, they could watch the tape and see for themselves that no cruelty was involved. (This assumes they have not done so already).
And also assumes that the whole thing was filmed and that they didn't edit out a bit where they lamed the rat with a hammer to make it easier for the "celebs" to catch.
I suspect "kindness to rats" is both rare and remarkable,
I've kept pet rats. Generally speaking, I think I was kind to them, in that I fed, watered and played with them. I believe most people who keep pets are the same.
No wonder you were ill last week. It's karma..! (Recovered from the Manchester lurgy?)
Just about recovered. Felt fine yesterday, but rough again today.
You need an air rifle and patience. Very satisfying, though, I have to say.
Or, three big traps
The issue that is being raised is with animals being killed within context of making entertainment. Its not against the rules for animals to be killed as part of filming, and in itself its not necessarily immoral either. But the statutory position is that an animal welfare authority is present on set. Because the rat chomping was seemingly unscripted (oh really) no representative was there, so the producers broke the rules by not stopping it, or by at least waiting and calling in a representative.
Regardless of whether the manner of the actual dispatching of the rat was cruel or not, its within the context of making entertainment that the law was broken.
Exactly skid. Far less "political correctness gone mad" than headlines would suggest.
I'm not so sure what's so wrong about killing an animal for our entertainment. It's not to my taste (mostly, I could think of exceptions), but I'm not sure it needs to be illegal.
It's not!
(as skid and I both explained)
But was it killed 'for entertainment' or simply killed by hungry people then shown as entertainment? I think there is an important difference there.
The 'hungry people' are entertainers, they are taking part in a game show, aware wholly as to how their actions will play. Their being hungry was part of the entertainment, their solution to being hungry was a decision taken to entertain. They haven't been abandoned in the wild to fend for themselves, they're in the grounds of a luxury hotel, being looked after by a massive production team, knowing full well they'll get fed when need be. And the buck stops with that production team, they are in their care.
my cats going to jailthen cos he catches almost a rat a night and tortures the living sh1t out of them
only if you sell tickets!
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