CRC cheaper parts well 85% ish. 😆
Free delivery….. 😆
Fast postage…. 😆

Local Bike Shop..dont know never go TBH… 😆
I can fix 90% of the bike & have the tools too…. 😆

So in a word………………. 😆

😆

would have though someone called postierich would be grateful for CRC putting business your way, or are their stupidly oversized packaging materials giving you a bad back?

At least I know when Im selling something big on ebay, I can order a powerlink or some inner tube patches from CRC and get a big box for free to send my ebay goods off in
CRC – offering value for money bicycle parts and assisting with recycling

I read hrough that lot and ime it’s stupid! Crc are almost / kindof my local lbs (bear with me). I live 2 miles from a great shop (tbc) but my wifes folks come from Ballyclare where Crc are based. My brother in law does stuff for them and they have a real local ethos!

Guess how many locals they employ? 50? No. 100? No. 200? No. 300? Getting close.

Sure they’re far from perfect but apparently they responded to all the pre Christmas whinging about packets not getting delivered by sending everyting in bigger boxes ( apparently forcing rm to use a van rather than a postie who just puts a card in).

Not perfect but still very good. They’ve lost the lbs vibe unless you live nearby but that are still trying.

I’m not too sure about thir growing distributed tie In’s though.

I like crc, i use them quite often, I still spend alot more money in my lbs, however never hesitate to use them, probably spent 8k over the last 4 years there.

Had a couple of issues but all easily sorted, unlike in my lbs’s.

what a topic! crc are brilliant for a lot of people, and i think the majority of people slating them may be people that have had a bad experience with them.
i used to use them quite a bit – the price is good, delivery is quick, and there is a huuuuge amount of choice.

however, i have a friend who works in a bike shop, and to be honest, i much prefer to use them. mainly i get a brilliant discount, and get parts loads loads cheaper than CRC (they arent always that competative)
i also love the LBS atmosphere. its great to go in, chat with like minded people, look at nice shiny parts, and i love coming away with something the same day.

though CRC does offer very goood service, and is brilliant for a bit of web shopping, as it is exciting getting things through the post! i got a £10 voucher the other day, and got a brilliant deal on some new rims.

its swings and roundabouts with what people use, business is business. its how the world works…..

Chain Reaction Cycles started out as a small County Antrim bike shop. I remember, I grew up in Northern Ireland when they were selling cotter pins to local hicks. What they have done any bike shop could do with business nous and acumen. Plus maybe a bit of timing.

If you don’t like Chain Reaction, then you don’t like modern consumerism and capitalism that has given you the disposable income to buy a high tech luxury product like the modern mountain bike. You can’t have one without the other.

That said, I spend as many £’s as I can in a LBS. Every dedicated cyclist needs both an internet shop and a local shop.

I couldn’t care less where I got my stuff.

Price + service = win.

Part of the service is timeliness. IE if I need it NOW like today, LBS wins (any one of the 10 or so I am close to). If I need it this week, and it is a more specific part, then any online shop that has it in stock for a reasonable price wins.

While I neither agree or disagree with the views of the person who made the web-site antichainreaction, I do think a lot of us who are posting on this website are missing their point.

The main issue within their rant/issue is that a local shop because of economies of scale has to buy products from the local distributor. The local distributor of a product pays for the advertising of said product within their area and covers the cost of test models, stuff sent to magazines for review, etc. The costs of all the distributors marketing/promotional activity is built into the price paid by the local shop. I’m sure no one disagrees with this so far.

CRC because of the size of their operation bypass a lot of local distributors and purchase direct from the manufacturer, CRC then sell to the consumer. Again, I’m sure no one disagrees with this.

The view expressed within antichainreaction is that the local distributor of a product creates the demand, the LBS pays the costs associated with creating the demand, CRC takes advantage of this demand without having to contribute to the cost.

Debate.

It’s all very well talking about getting shocks tetrode the day before a trip abroad, but when I found myself in that situation a few years backand needed to get some replacement shock bushings for my wife’s Enduro, my local Spesh dealer couldn’t deliver but BETD sent them out special delivery in time to get them on the bike before we left.

Since then the local dealer has invested in its infrastructure pretty significantly, and I use them regularly. Just because a shop is local, doesn’t mean they’re a positive force for brand loyalty.

CRC got their business model right as an on-line retailer at the moment hence all those anti sentiments from certain people because they can’t compete with them on cost.

LBS needs to wise up if they are to compete effectively because there is something called on-line retailers or the internet. Their old business model is no longer sufficient. Not internet savvy and poor customer service then they might as well close shop. So until LBS wise up or get their logistic right on on-line retailing CRC will always be ahead of them in cost.

The advantage of CRC = low cost, fast delivery and good logistic.

The advantage of LBS = you get bike service and physical location to check products out.

What LBS needs must do is to capitalise on their advantage which is easier said than done since majority do not think out of the box, so something got to give and unfortunately is their old business model if they do not wise up.

LBS can still compete with CRC on cost if they get their business model right.

🙂

CRC got their business model right

rumour was that they had a novel financing model which the average LBS would not be able to replicate

could be complete tosh though

Just wondering therefore – if everyone would prefer to buy from the Internet, what’s the point of shops? Maybe everything will go this way? I am never resistant to change, but regardless of whether I’m in or out of the trade (and right now I’m thinking being OUT of the trade is the best option), I don’t look forward to not meeting people, seeing what I’m buying, demoing it etc. That was so big for me, I set up my own shop. Now I feel like a right t1t!

LBS can still compete with CRC on cost if they get their business model right

If your at all familiar with the trade, you will know thats not really possible. Just on the basic range of shimano kit, CRC are selling it at prices only just above what your LBS can buy it in for. But you are completely right, that the LBS and CRC offer two different services and the LBS has to realise that and go with it. Customer service is the best weapon they have.

So the theme I’m seeing here is that most want CRC prices and free info from a LBS with experienced staff.
But if the LBS follow the CRC business model and start to charge for information, they’re the bad guys!
They’ve had to pay for staff training and staff wages while they gain the experience to be able to give the service and advice you expect from a LBS. And it’s run by like minded people that actually ride in your local area, so they are best placed to give you the best advice.

They have families to support too you know!

And the worst kind of customer is the one that “knows how to fit everything” but comes into the LBS saying ” I fitted this last week but it doesn’t work.”
You’d like to say, “That’s because you fitted it wrong you ****.” But profesional etiquette dictates that you don’t.

MTB’s are technical sports equipment. You don’t re-string your tennis raquet or custom fit your own golf clubs, you get a professional to do it for you. They can’t do this “online” that’s where the personal service comes in.
As a former golf pro that defected to MTB I find it incredible that riders feel they are better than the pros at choosing and building the right equipment for their needs. This doesn’t happen in any other sport.

The difference between a pro and amateur golfer is 25% talent 75% practice.
I feel the same applies to cycle industry professionals.
The good guys work at this stuff for years before you see them. They will make you look poor by comparison in a head to head.
So don’t expect your LBS to give you free advice and loan you tools or bail you out when you cock it up, ask CRC.
D’oh, they don’t have knowledgable staff in your area.

The choice is yours.

I like CRC as they have (with only a couple of rare exceptions) given excellent service.

Purely by chance this week, I discovered a decent bike shop only 3 miles away tucked inside an industrial estate. Very nice line up of bikes, both road and mtb, friendly ‘roadie’ on the till and I was able to do the silly “lift bike to check weight thing” on a very lovely Cube Fritzz demo bike. That’s something you can’t do online! Only problem was, it was bloody freezing in there!! Maybe they only put the heating on at weekends? I’ll definitely pop back in when I have more time as there is nothing quite the same as seeing something in the flesh………….and those Cube bikes are lovely 😀

big_n_daft – Member

rumour was that they had a novel financing model which the average LBS would not be able to replicate

could be complete tosh though

Whatever that means it’s based on the “old” fashion dot.com financing if that is the case, so they took the risk and strike the jackpot.

PeteG55 – Member
If your at all familiar with the trade, you will know thats not really possible. Just on the basic range of shimano kit, CRC are selling it at prices only just above what your LBS can buy it in for. But you are completely right, that the LBS and CRC offer two different services and the LBS has to realise that and go with it. Customer service is the best weapon they have.

Even if CRC sell at rock bottom price LBS can still compete with them if LBS knows their local market well and have the mentality to go with it. Plenty of hard work but the pay off is good if they know. Yes, customer service is one of them but that is not the only one …

I am not that bothered about the pricing from CRC really and even if I pay slightly more at my LBS I am willing provided they don’t try to billshite me. Yes, they billshite me all the time. I mean hello … there is something called internet.

Actually, know it all customer is even better to deal with if you know what button to press. I mean know it all customer still need to find time to build things up but if the LBS listen and can compromise on their “service” charge then they are talking.

Yes, your old fashion service charge. How much per hour do I hear? Are you saying you need to pay your mechanic(s)? In that case LBS better find ways to deal with that whether they like it or not. That business model needs serious overhaul otherwise that is one big hurdle to jump. If LBS needs to have service charge then it must be attractive / reasonable to the customer and not simply charge them because LBS can. Yes, LBS got the knowledge and equipment on how to tinker with the components but that knowledge is no longer safe as there is something called internet …

🙄

p/s: at the Toon city centre there is a new, I think it is new or might be relocation, with four floors full of bikes but I am not sure how long they will survive … plenty of nice road bikes.

Skyline – So what if someone buys something cheap from CRC and fits it incorrectly? Surely a LBS would charge the going rate to sort out issue? (if it were me I wouldn’t expect to borrow tools or get free advice – that’s what STW forum is for!) Anyway, carrying out a basic service, setting up gears, bleeding brakes, changing DU bushes, swapping components etc. is hardly rocket science, despite what you say. LBS definitely have their place and I’ve been very grateful to mine in the past and will certainly use them in the future. However (and I suspect I’m not alone here) 90% of issues I can sort out myself (generally with kit bought cheap over the internet).

As a former golf pro that defected to MTB I find it incredible that riders feel they are better than the pros at choosing and building the right equipment for their needs. This doesn’t happen in any other sport.

Seriously? Bit of generalisation there. Not got a chip on your shoulder have you? Why would a ‘pro’ necessarily know what equipment is better for my needs than I would?

“D’oh, they don’t have knowledgable staff in your area”
Niether do my LBS?

Ross, with some components if you fit them incorrctly it **** them.
so you are the epitome of the worst kind of customer.
Do you know the spoke length for a M765 front hub laced to a Mavic xc717 rim off the top of your head?
Could you build one to World Class standard?
What’s the correct BB axle length for a M440 chainset?

What shaft would you fit to titleist D2 for draw bias?

It’s about experience and practice. They’ve done it more times than you have, so they’re better at it end of.
Probably better riders too, as you come across as a total prick.

James, stop using Halfrauds as your LBS. Find a good one.

with some components if you fit them incorrectly it **** them

Cheaper to get new from CRC than pay to get it sorted at my LBS. After the 75% practice I had fitting them the first time it’d be perfect second time around. 😀

The difference between a pro and amateur golfer is 25% talent 75% practice.
I feel the same applies to cycle industry professionals.

Oh please 😆 😆 🙄

Skyline-GTR – spokesman for the LBS? His attitude epitomises why some shops lose out to online retailers: their prices are cheaper and you avoid being patronised. It’s a win-win for the customer.

Do you know the spoke length…etc.

No, that’s what the internet is for.

Funnily, I think skyline GTR is the manager at my LBS, pompous sanctimonious and patronising. I’ll continue fitting all my bike components incorrectly thanks.

Skyline – you’re trolling right?

Ross, with some components if you fit them incorrctly it **** them.

so you are the epitome of the worst kind of customer.

I’ve never fitted anything incorrectly that’s broken it, so that’s simply not true

Do you know the spoke length for a M765 front hub laced to a Mavic xc717 rim off the top of your head?

Could you build one to World Class standard?
No, and I don’t even feel less of a man because of it. But if I did want to buy one I’d simply have to buy it from a top notch ex golf pro, someone like you. You sound awesome and not remotely like an inexplicably arrogant old golf bore.

What’s the correct BB axle length for a M440 chainset?

Fortunately I an capable of taking simple measurements

What shaft would you fit to titleist D2 for draw bias?

I wouldn’t because I have no interest in golf.

It’s about experience and practice. They’ve done it more times than you have, so they’re better at it end of.

Yep, agree with you. But I’m good enough for a lot of stuff. Just not everything, which is why I said I’ll continue to use my LBS – RTFP.

Probably better riders too, as you come across as a total prick.

Oo, cutting! LOL. So you’re a hypocrite as well as having a MASSIVE chip on your shoulder.
Just out if interest, does being a “total prick” preclude someone from being a good rider? (or a golf pro…)

I can’t speak for all you UK people, but I’ll give some insight from Finland where shops like CRC have probably made even more difference.

Some years ago most bike part imports where handled by some largish companies who would sell wholesale to the shops. Above them there might have been a Nordic or European importer (minimum) before the actual manufacturer.

CRC used to easily sell half price compared to just about any local shops. Not only that, but the local shop would not understand about the product, and would not have it in stock meaning I’d probably have it in my hand quicker by ordering online rather then ordering from my LBS (who would demand I pass by and pay it before the order is made and another time to pick it up some weeks later). So what do I choose? Fast cheap and simple or slow expensive and requiring several visits? You don’t have to be smart to see what the problem was.

Fast forward to today… Most of the shops have been crying about people ordering online for years, and very few have done anything about it. However there are some shops that have understood that their old business models just won’t work. You can’t have 4 people taking a 30-50% margin any more. So the smart shops have been cutting middle men, they order larger batches and split them among each other (though this is hard due to competitive law) etc. These day’s I can often buy stuff locally for about 20% more then it would cost in CRC, though I’ll still be charged more then double if I pick the wrong shop.

Now some shops have proven that there is a way for local businesses to be successful, others just concentrate on the whining. I must have used way over 10k€ on bikes during the last 5 years, and a large majority went to LBS shops because they where competitive enough and most importantly because they had great service. Looking locally I find most bikeshops are run by utter idiots (sorry). They blame online shops for losing business, but in reality they are just a lazy bunch with no clue on how business is run (and times changing). Luckily some local shops at least seem to understand why people still need a LBS and concentrate on those strengths.

Halfords is my local LBS

well… there’s 2 LBS’s in between my house and halfords but:

– one only stocks 500bikes with much lower specs than what halfords can offer and bikes/clothes that are WAY too expensive for my demographic

– the other is staffed with monkeys who present as if they know less about bikes than mrsconsequence (sorry becca if you’re reading this… but to b fair, you didnt know what a “stem” was 😛 ) and when i went in with a friend to buy a couple of things they pushed us towards products completely unsuitable for what we asked and weren’t able to answer any basic questions about them

Halfords however has a team of some young guys, all of which I’ve seen riding about locally to me, all are happy to chat about bikes and components, excellent service whenever they’ve touched my bike 🙂

the halfords 4 miles in the other direction has a horrific “bike hut” though and i wont be going in there again, you win some, you loose some… and with halfords i’ve won a lot more than any visit to a LBS so far.

CRC (and other various online retailers) have all provided me with prices, delivery times and a service that beats my experiences of the LBS’s local to me.

What a load of rubbish.

Why stop at CRC, why not get onto Boeing and tell them to stop selling planes to Ryanair and Easyjet because they sell their tickets too cheap? Why not get onto book publishers and tell them to stop selling books to Amazon because they’re too cheap???

I use CRC for one major reason, despite living in London, I don’t have an LBS, at least not within a reasonable distance, the nearest to me is probably 15 miles away, so CRC it is.

erm…. you really don’t get this whole capitalism lark do you?

I order from CRC (among other places). When i need a bottom bracket facing, forks servicing, wheel lacing, hub rebuilding, I go to my LBS. Which is normally full of half-wits bringing hybrids in to pay £10 to get a puncture fixed. I invariably end up leaving with stuff anyway on the “ooooooo while I’m in here I’ve just remembered I need …..” basis that exists permanently in my head

I for one look forward to the day when CRC rule the world and can garnish my salary directly at source, saving me the trouble of having to remember and type in a pesky Paypal password.

Just out if interest, does being a “total prick” preclude someone from being a good rider? (or a golf pro…)

Ahem…..Rob Warner……Nick Faldo

Actually that’s not very fair, I have a soft spot for Mr Warner in a manly skillz appreciation way of course. 😉

The not so old adage that the Internet makes the world smaller is so very true.

End-users can be brought closer and closer to the manufacturer as much as retailers can. We customers can buy direct from some manufacturers, other times we can go directly to the wholesaler/importer. The internet also reduces the need for black magic in many things. Knowledge is not experience, but it can get you most of the way there. We all learn to bleed our own brakes from first reading how to do it online. We learn how to fabricate our own headset presses. How to cold set a rear triangle and check for alignment.

The bikeshop is not the home of the enthusiast anymore, that is the place of the internet.

The Lbikeshop is increasingly looking to the ill-informed (on price, skills, product range etc) to provide it’s income.

I really like CRC, I’ve always had great service from them, which is more than I can say for many ‘bricks and mortar’ bike shops.

With the rise of the internet and forums like this one, the accessibility of knowledge on how to fix your own bike has greatly increased, which I see as a good thing. To my mind, the self sufficiency that gives a cyclist is worth it’s weight in gold. LBS’ should focus on things like a wide range of clothing, which is nicer to see and try on before buying, and servicing and selling for the non-cyclists.

Our shop is looking to the ill-informed to provide its income? No, I really don’t think so. If you feel that you should buy everything online then you’re lucky – it will go that way soon enough. Before I had a bike shop, I built a relationship with a local shop and got regular discounts, free or cheap labour etc. Their location wasn’t ideal and their internal issues meant they closed in the end.

When I set up my own, I founded it on the good principles I had learned from that shop and also delivered on loads of demo bikes, demo lights, saddles, clothing etc etc. I thought it was the best way to compete with online. I think I’m wrong. A few weeks ago, a customer had a tyre sidewall blow out. He did not believe me as to which tyres were best so I took a tyre of a demo bike and allowed him to try it first. He came back two weeks later with a visibly more worn tyre in his hands stating that I “had a problem” as he liked the tyre and had found it cheaper online (cheaper than my trade price). That was the first time I gave in and told him to buy it off the Internet. It’s not isolated, unless I’m laundering money because of dodgy activities on the side, why should I sell goods at less than what I buy them at? I’m not intelligent but I understand that concept, just.

Woody,I’ve got a soft spot for Rob too.Mine’s on the top of Cut Gate at the moment.
Ian

A few weeks ago, a customer had a tyre sidewall blow out. He did not believe me as to which tyres were best so I took a tyre of a demo bike and allowed him to try it first. He came back two weeks later with a visibly more worn tyre in his hands stating that I “had a problem” as he liked the tyre and had found it cheaper online (cheaper than my trade price). That was the first time I gave in and told him to buy it off the Internet. It’s not isolated, unless I’m laundering money because of dodgy activities on the side, why should I sell goods at less than what I buy them at? I’m not intelligent but I understand that concept, just.

I guess you won’t please them all…

The LBS I stick to most of the time gave me so good service on the first time that I’ve kept returning. I went to buy something off them (chainguide) and they let me use their tools to fit it (and offered a bit of advice). The next time I went in I had actually bought a frame from elsewhere and went there to get a headset. They faced the head tube and fitted it for free, just charging for the head set. Later I felt the BB needed facing (killed bearings too quicly) and asked them if they could face it, they charged nothing.

I was so impressed that the next time I needed a frame I purchased it from them (1500€). Since they did not let me down I bought my next frame from them too (+2000€), and that time also got a lot of other parts too (wheel set, fork, drivetrain +3000€).

I guess you will always have people come and try to abuse that. This shop in question actually moved away from main streets to get rid of all the customers just accidentally coming in – the others who appreciate it will still walk the couple of blocks to find it. However this is how they differentiate from the other shops and get a loyal following. They seem to accept the world how it is and make the most out of it (hence when I originally walked in with a frame bought from the internet they did not scoff at me).

Then look at some other shops. They seem to be so sure I just walked in to test shoes for size that they don’t even try to serve me. The way they look at me makes me feel like I’m suspected to be shop lifting despite my attempt to actually ask them (and ultimately buy something). Needless to say I won’t really be going back there.

What shaft would you fit to titleist D2 for draw bias?

Is that something to do with knitting? 🙂

Attention Bike shop owners. You too can invest and become a profitable and successful business if you take a risk and have a business brain.

Should customers pay for your inefficiency or lack of investment?

CRC grew because they worked hard and invested money.

CRC won’t fix my bottom bracket squeak for me. It’s all very well hard core enthusiasts with well equipped sheds and lots of engineering skills being able to buy parts from a warehouse/call centre setup, but for an average person who is trying to make the switch from car dependency to some level of bike use and enjoyment, a Hope brake set delivered five pounds cheaper is just a complex artefact as incomprehensible as an Anglo-Saxon post hole diagram (guess what I’m reading at the moment).
The slavering free marketeers are tossers, because, ultimately, when the l.b.s.’s are gone, the only people who will be able to ride bikes will be the people who know how to fix them. That’ll mean the market for parts will dry up and the call centre warehouse set ups will be left flogging complete bikes and complete bikes only (plus, of course, stupidly short-fashion clothing, unnecessary, trend-driven gizmos like spotlighting for bicycles and other mug-seeking market-led idiocies). Skill bases are a part of what the tossers call ‘the middle men’, that they are so keen to ‘cut out’. A bike service costs twenty five quid before parts; when the l.b.s. can’t make money from the sale of parts, it’ll be fifty, then it really won’t be worth using a bike unless you’re prepared to devote your life to it. We may be, but for many users, it’s just a tool, and that void will drive them off.

stating that I “had a problem” as he liked the tyre and had found it cheaper online

Some people are total pricks – ultimately the customer has the problem, a total lack of decency and morals. Hopefully a bit of karma will come to play and he’ll shred the ‘cheap’ tyre on it’s first outing.

LOL @ TJD