Agree with funkydunc. Plus they are possibly going down the supermarking faux-advertising route:

SALE
GREAT SAVINGS
CHEAP
BEST SELLING

At least they don’t have false google-links yet where you click through and its a different price..

Cough wiggle cough

The not so old adage that the Internet makes the world smaller is so very true.

End-users can be brought closer and closer to the manufacturer as much as retailers can. We customers can buy direct from some manufacturers, other times we can go directly to the wholesaler/importer. The internet also reduces the need for black magic in many things. Knowledge is not experience, but it can get you most of the way there. We all learn to bleed our own brakes from first reading how to do it online. We learn how to fabricate our own headset presses. How to cold set a rear triangle and check for alignment.

The bikeshop is not the home of the enthusiast anymore, that is the place of the internet.

The Lbikeshop is increasingly looking to the ill-informed (on price, skills, product range etc) to provide it’s income.

I must be the only one on here spotting the ironing of this. Honest…
I wanted to reply, but this thread is going too fast and I can’t be bothered. I guess it’s really down to the kind of guy you are. A selfish capitalist who only cares about himself and money. Or someone who has a sense of community and actually cares to invest some of it’s capital to everyone. There is so much more to a price than just raw material.

Should I go out and support my local indie coffee shop if they were 40% more than a chain yet the espresso tasted the same?

No. Thats utter madness.

I buy on quality and price is a major factor in the mix.

Two brothers, each both open a bike shop in there home towns (located a few miles apart). Both shops struggle for a few years when one of the brothers decides to try this internet shopping lark. The other brother says ‘wise up, it’ll never take off’ (right Robin? :lol:).

Fast forward a few years and judging by the number of responses, you know the rest. I’m still friendly with one of the brothers, the other, not so much (probably due to driving a go-cart over his head one evening).

Fair play to CRC. My LBS 8)

Hora – You might do if they had a shop that was much more pleasant to sit and drink your coffee in. You probably wouldn’t if they treated you like crap…

Agree with funkydunc. Plus they are possibly going down the supermarking faux-advertising route:

SALE
GREAT SAVINGS
CHEAP
BEST SELLING

At least they don’t have false google-links yet where you click through and its a different price..

Cough wiggle cough

Yeah, I don’t usually even bother reading CRC sale adverts any more. Whenever they are advertising a product as being on good discount they will have found a sub-model nobody wants, slapped a good discount and when you go look it actually costs double. Now I have probably 20 purchases from CRC amounting to thousands of euros but it’s been a year since I bothered going through their spam.

get a life juan.

there’s nothing “capitalist” or anti-community in my post.

It’s a fact of life that manufacturers actively sell online direct from the workshop now because cost of sales are so much lower than they were back in the day when you HAD to have a full on retail presence to move your goods.

Secondly, knowledge about servicing, fitting, specification and what products are available is no longer concentrated behind the shop counter.

If you cant understand that then give it up you’re sounding a little pathetic.

My LBS is set up to work on bikes rather than sell parts. He will tell you to get the stuff from the internet and he will fit them for a fixed price. His work is excellent and well priced. Going there soon to get work done with parts sourced from on-one, merlin and CRC.

A selfish capitalist who only cares about himself and money.

I cant afford to be as philanthropic as you Juan – I envy your largesse.

ditch_jockey – Member

bleeding some Rich, know it all Git’s Maguras

I appreciate it may be unintentional, but I resent the implication that, if I demonstrate a good working knowledge of how my bike works, I have some kind of character flaw.

Cloth Cap, Whippet; When I were a Lad, Blah Blah, Kids these day! Grumble, Mumble, Where’s that Nurse Gone!!!

Well Done you’ve seized an a minor turn of phrase and used it as the jumping off point for a mini diatribe about my assumptions regarding your “Character” and how I apparently assume all but those not “In the Trade” are Cack handed morons; without really having bothered to try and comprehend what I was talking about… Some good “STWing” there, are you IT?

For my own part, just like you, I do All my own bike fixing/replacing/Assembling and always have done, I think more people really should, it would improve their understanding of their Dandy-horse and so on, but that’s not really the point under discussion here is it?

We were discussing the Pros/Cons of CRC and their ilk and what impact they are having on the various LBS in this country, I’m sure you’re a dab hand with your “couple of dozen reasonable quality tools”, But I don’t give a shit, why not start your own thread so you can tell us all about how bloody marvelous you are with a Hex key…

My LBS is certainly still really busy when I go in and has expanded a lot since the 90’s.

I think there is a split between people who know what they want and how to fit it, who will buy online at eg CRC, and people who don’t really know what they want and want to see it and get advice who will still use their lbs.

CRC do seem to be heading the way of the lbs in terms of some of their parts being really old and still the same price as the parts that have superceded them, i guess they can’t keep track of everything.

Players rise and fall. Always happened, always will. CRC will shrink back abit as another entrepreneur steps in/up their game with a new competitor to CRC.

CRC will have crisis meetings ‘why are sales dropping’/churn rate and ‘why is horabikebitz offering picture postcards of hooters with every order’?

Stoner’s got a point about the choices available to the more knowledgeable, and it’s true the less knowledgeable will need to use a LBS, to be fair.

I know what I want, and will shop around to finds the best deal. I don’t see the LBS owner doing me a discount because they want to help support my personal economic situation, so I can’t let my heart bleed for their business. All businesses are Capitalist enterprises. They aren’t nice fluffy happy co-operative charities giving stuff away for free or for no profit. Whilst I agree with the point about ‘community’, sadly things for most people are a bit too dog-eat-dog to allow us to exercise much altrusim to a small independent business, no matter how nice their smiles.

IME of working for different bike shops, I seriously couldn’t give a stuff if some of them went out of business. I really couldn’t. Them paying me crap money and expecting me to have loads of enthusiasm and great knowledge of stuff, might have something to do with it…

As for Halfords; I got paid more working there as a lowly sales bod, than I did at the LBS’. Better benefits, potential career prospects and employment rights too. Shocking, I know…

This anger towards CRC is misplaced. If you really want to have a go at someone, then have a go at Evans. Small independent family business that is now the most extensive bike shop chain by far, has much greater purchasing power than the little guys, yet charges full RRP in store, and employs ‘sales assistants’ rather than ‘enthusiastic cyclists’ happy to work in the bike trade. Evans have squeezed out other shops by opening in the same area, even the same street.

Bloody good range in store though. Lots of bargains to be had too.

…I have the hooter pics ready CRC…be afraid!

Don’t be silly Hora; your wife will smack you in the mouth and ban you from going out riding. And other things. You’ll cave in within seconds and your dreams of Empire will be over as quickly as they began.

horabikebitz? Hora – you couldn’t run a bath 😉

😆

Never sit on a mans dreams….it might poke you in the bum! 😮

there’s nothing “capitalist” or anti-community in my post.

Actually there is. IIRC your dream is to settle in France mainly to the quality of life and it’s cycling. So you might not get your own irony due to a lack of knowledge, so let me explain this to you.
Trail, GR, foot path and fireroad are managed by the “conseil general (CG)”. This governmental body, has for main source of revenue taxation. Mainly taxation on the retail/shops (on the top of the VAT). So if everyone shops at CRC, all the LBS will close and therefore the amount of tax the CG will be able to raise will drop significantly. And like any body, the first things to go out when the income drop will be leisure. So no more footpath, GR, fireroad etc etc.
So cycling in france won’t be that nice any more stoner.

Never sit on a mans dreams….it might poke you in the bum!

Yeah, but that would only ever be an issue if that dream was firm, solid and rampant, rather than a dribbling, flacid scrap of pathetic insignificance completely devoid of any real substance….

I’ve heard many, many euphemisms over the years, but the thought that a man might use his ‘dream’ to poke you in the bum is one of the best.

cant afford to be as philanthropic as you Juan – I envy your largesse

I can’t either. I just consume differently. LBS is very flexible in terms of how I pay (2 or 3 times sometimes) which is good when I need/want something a bit expensive.
Otherwise (and that is maybe what I am doing wrong) if I can’t afford a XT I’ll just buy a SLX. But I know that at the end of the day a part of the money I have spend will go toward a structure that:
Sponsors a club
Build and maintain trails
Pay taxes (which I benefit)
Give me good advice
Have taught me how to ride
Maybe I am wrong maybe I should tell them fouck, I’ll buy what I want with my money and sod of you, no matter how many times you’ve helped me, how many time you gave me advices, fixed stuff for free. Yeah actually I must be so wrong.

Actually there is

Actually, there isnt. I wrote the damn thing juan I know what I was saying.

And trying to crowbar something I said about the the pleasantness of rural france into your post makes you look even sillier.

Juan do you use freetranslate or Jack Daniels when you post?

hora made a good funny! 😉

Juan do you use freetranslate or Jack Daniels when you post?

What cause your french is as good as his English?

Don’t be rude.

yeah but that is your problem stoner, you are so blinded by the market that you’ve lost all human value.
I never learn anything bike related through the internet. Each time they was a human being who taught me how to do.
I am actually quite sad now after reading this whole thread it does scares me that people with morals, ethics and compassion are fewer and fewer.
As why we let that happened well I don’t know.

Oh FFS juan do you ever read what you write back to yourself?

Buying online is not equal to having a lack of morals you oaf.

I *think* he means that you are stealing a bikeshops margins ❓

but OHMYGOD I might actually be improving the manufacturers margins? OHNOES! I must be morally bankrupt!

I can’t either. I just consume differently. LBS is very flexible in terms of how I pay (2 or 3 times sometimes) which is good when I need/want something a bit expensive.
Otherwise (and that is maybe what I am doing wrong) if I can’t afford a XT I’ll just buy a SLX. But I know that at the end of the day a part of the money I have spend will go toward a structure that:
Sponsors a club
Build and maintain trails
Pay taxes (which I benefit)
Give me good advice
Have taught me how to ride
Maybe I am wrong maybe I should tell them fouck, I’ll buy what I want with my money and sod of you, no matter how many times you’ve helped me, how many time you gave me advices, fixed stuff for free. Yeah actually I must be so wrong.

More power to you Juan – well done & I mean it.

But hey lay off the sarcasm yeah? No need for it. You only weaken your position with that kind of tone & (as has been stated) make yourself look a little silly..

Otherwise well done & I hope your LBS is aware of your actions. I will not be mirroring them but thats my choice & I hope you will respect that as I yours.

cant afford to be as philanthropic as you Juan – I envy your largesse

Yes they are. And they are trying there best.

I think there’s some big generalizations being made here. Go into your LBS and ask if they sponsor grass roots racing, or contribute to footpath maintenance or sponsor a goat in Uzbekistan. Some will but many won’t. I think what Juan misses is that whilst there may be some “good guy” LBS out there, there are plenty of not so good guys and if they’re the ones who disappear as a direct or indirect consequence of CRC et al, then I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.

I do feel a bit guilty that I don’t buy more from my LBSs, but if I didn’t buy anything online I’d have been able to afford about 40-50% less bikes and stuff – and the stuff I had bought probably wouldn’t be the brands I actually wanted.

That’s not a criticism of LBSs in any way, just an honest explanation for why I use CRC and the like quite a lot.

One thing for sure, CRC want a much bigger margin from their suppliers than a lbs, in my experience anyway.

I’m still laughing about the York bikeshop owner who won the lottery. They said they were ‘poor’ yet his wife kept 7 horses…

….I can see why they were poor having that many horses to stable, keep, vet-bills etc 😆

Don’t really need to read the rest of this thread to guess the for/against arguments going on.

Shock horror….consumers are apparently being brainwashed by a business offering a huge selection of products at unbeatable prices, with (generally) quick delivery right to your door.

There is still a market for the LBS, those that know what they are doing will continue to make a profit. It’s the same in almost every luxury goods area (and I mean luxury in it’s truest sense, i.e. non-essential).

My girlfriend is a fashion buyer and it still astounds me to see how much internet sales have increased at her company. They have a lot of UK wide stores, but people still spend soooooo much online, despite the fact they can’t see it properly, they can’t touch it and they certainly can’t try it on.

It’s convenience as much as price. I work my backside off through the week and my weekends get filled up pretty quickly. I’m lucky if I get half a days riding a week. When on earth would I have the time to get to an LBS (that opens 90 mins AFTER I get to the office and closes about 3 hours BEFORE I leave the office), buy what I need (presuming they have it in stock) and then fit it to the bike, all in the little time that I have?

I love getting out to my LBS (which incidentally is Stif, “local” is a a bit of an odd word to use now that they’ve moved to a very non local part of Yorkshire for me!), but for most stuff, the cost/time/convenience of buying from CRC etc is almost a necessity rather than a luxury.

I only use CRC about 50% of the time actually, there’s some good “LBS”s in my wider area that put on some pretty competitive online offers. I just picked up a cracking bargain from All Terrain Cycles. CRC could never have even offered it, never mind matched it.

I find if you have a really good bike shop on hand, you’ll use them. If not, not.

Here’s an example of why I tend to use CRC:

Popped into local bike shop to pick up a length of magura hose that they had (oem, not retail packed), asked how much it was and was first told “oooh it’ll be expensive” – I’m already losing interest.

Staff member then goes to find out the price by walking over to a laptop, bringing up CRC website, finding item and then simply doubling their price….

LBS’s are a bit like IKEA for me, seems like a good idea at the time – until I get there and swear to myself I am never going again.

On a positive note I have a newish LBS in Bath – “Cadence” which has had what I have needed in a hurry on both occasions (chainring spanner and something equally uninteresting) I’ve been in and at a reasonable price. So my faith is being restored.

Recently bought rockshox recons for £99 from on-one. One LBS in glasgow had it in stock for £249. Bit of a no brainer there.

Staff member then goes to find out the price by walking over to a laptop, bringing up CRC website, finding item and then simply doubling their price

Or the bikeshop I went into recently that restickered all its clark inner gear cables from £2.99 to £5.99. You could still see the old price labels underneath.

Of course they are allowed to stock bought at an older cost price and I am still expected to give the bikeshop plenty of money to preserve the misty-eyed-nostalga of being a mug.