It's bigger than you-don't overtake it at the junction!

But cyclists and Co should feel safe on roads no matter what.

Petition signed!

IMO cyclists are just as clarksonised as drivers – why do you NEED to go in front of the wagon? It's far safer to wait behind and let him complete his move, as you KNOW he probably will struggle to see you and will struggle to stop in time if he does see you. Just show a little consideration to them, as you would like for yourself.

clarksonised
I know exactly what you mean, but I am disgusted by the use of this word!

A big ask, anyone organiseing a bike show,or safety talk for cyclists, get a lorry to park at the venue,and then ask the public to sit in the driver seat,and spot the cyclist.

Should be a good bit of an eye opener for the cyclists.

Also dont ever undetake buses and coaches on the inside, as they may well be stopping to let a passenger off,or moving inwards on a narrow stretch of road.

I know exactly what you mean, but I am disgusted by the use of this word!

Wasn't me sir, I didnt use it first, it was [insert name from previous page]'s fault. He made me do it.

project – I agree, good ideas.

I never undertake large vehicles, full stop. In fact I try not to undertake/filter with cars either, no-one expects vehicles to pass on the left, so they are not looking for you.

Maybe its called "undertaking" for a reason eh?

A big ask, anyone organiseing a bike show,or safety talk for cyclists, get a lorry to park at the venue,and then ask the public to sit in the driver seat,and spot the cyclist.

I'm sure I read on Bike Radar a while ago that the police in London were doing that. They had a lorry parked up and they were pulling cyclists over and inviting them to sit in the lorry to see how bad the blindspots were.

I'm in total agreement with Coffeeking. Why do many cyclists feel they need to be at the front of the queue? I'm quite happy to sit in the queue and I watch with horror every morning as folk struggle up the inside of traffic and get caught up as the lights change.

RHSno2

I was at school with Eilidh many years ago, here is the thread from just after it happened, you might be interested to read some of the nice comments:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/tragic-accident-in-kings-cross-last-week

HGV driver here and a keen cyclist. I drive on a regular basis in city centres and I have to have eyes up my arse. Some city's a worse than others. London cyclists are suicidal. Not all I hasten to add. Bath, Bristol and Cambridge are up there as well. Never see that many in Manchester or brum. Being a suicidal (knocked off 3 times) cyclist myself I like to think I am more aware of others around. I know the other drivers I work with are not aware or to be honest, not that bothered about cyclists on there daily commute. Certainly think a little training and thought by both parties wouldn't go amiss.

Petition signed.

"IMO cyclists are just as clarksonised as drivers – why do you NEED to go in front of the wagon?"

Well said coffeking. i blame those stupid advance boxes at front of lights and the lanes on the left for some of the road deaths, it encourages bad road positioning and another example of road planning by those that probably only drive cars.. also many drivers will give you far less space 2nd or 3rd time.

so i think it's better to stop in the q between cars in order that you arrive, take the position of a car to give yourself a safe start and don't q-jump to the front at each set of lights.

sympathies to those injured and killed – probably doing what they thought was right and road planners have a case to answer imo.

While reading this thread it occurred to me that when approaching a junction in the car, I would always pull up behind a wagon or other larger vehicle to give them space to turn, I would not think of trying to squeeze down the side, often I’ll sit behind even if there is a filter lane. It never even occurs to me to try and get in front on the bike.

I always go infront of them when on the bike. However I always assume I have not been seen until I have seen the whites of the drivers eyes and I always have an escape route planned. I would normally go down the outside.

I find it very strange that people would wait behind a truck – the safest place on the road is infront of the traffic out of the way.

As for the road design issue – its not a stupid bit of red pained tarmac we need – its a safely designed junction to allow all road users safe use. Look at the provision in the low counties if you want to see how it can be done.

Demonising truckers is not the way forward – education for all an better road design is – IMO of course

the safest place on the road is infront of the traffic out of the way.

I'm always going to disagree with you on that one I'm afraid – the process of getting to the front of a truck is the dangerous bit unless you've just seen the lights change, and even then I'd want to be way clear at the front. Waiting behind makes you no-longer at threat from the wagon and the drivers are held up behind the truck anyway, giving you time to clip in and make a nice fast rolling start. If youre in front you're also in the firing line for the traffic that makes a dart from the lights to beat the truck. Seems like common sense to me, but then I suppose your method probably does to you too!

Look at the provision in the low counties if you want to see how it can be done.

I presume you mean Holland not Cambridgeshire, and in that case the dutch are f**kin lethal on bikes. I reckon part of it is the fixed wheel but they certainly are a danger to pedestrians.

On my current commute i ride in heavy traffic and will cut to the front of ques by going down the out side, but whilst doing this i will keep an eye on what is happing both to the que and if any one looks like they are going to turn right. I wouldn't hesitate about overtaking a lorry as long as it was safe to do so but i won't over take people just to sit at the front of the que at a set of lights im happy to wiat my turn (unless they are going no where fast once they go green). I don't use the cycle paths on this route as you have to stop and give way approximatly every 500 yards and they are busys with pedestrians who im sure don't want a bike (and trailer some days) coming up behind them/towards them at 20 odd mph.
Thankfully my new commute is going to be a mixture off quite roads and cycle paths that works well for bikes as its not a route walked by many people and those that do, know that it is well used by bikes and it gets you off a very busy fast road.

Coffeeking – it all depends of course – If there is a big truck I find that as they are so slow to accelerate that in traffic once you get ahead you get a clear bit of road to ride in. They don't catch you up before the next set of lights / holdup. Sit behind it and you run the risk of getting squished between the truck and the impatient car behind you. If you are in front of the truck he can see you for sure

The key thing of course is to be alert and think about your safety at all times – use whatever road positioning and manoeuvres that make you safest. That will always depend on the road conditions etc etc. No one thing works in all circumstances

Good point well made TJ.

Coffeeking – it all depends of course – If there is a big truck I find that as they are so slow to accelerate that in traffic once you get ahead you get a clear bit of road to ride in. They don't catch you up before the next set of lights / holdup. Sit behind it and you run the risk of getting squished between the truck and the impatient car behind you. If you are in front of the truck he can see you for sure

The key thing of course is to be alert and think about your safety at all times – use whatever road positioning and manoeuvres that make you safest. That will always depend on the road conditions etc etc. No one thing works in all circumstances

You admit to RLJ'ing, so your opinion is irrelevant 😉

Sometimes redlight jumping is the safest way to proceed. Many of us posted many examples of why.

I think we should differentiate between different types of truck. if all I had to worry about was the usual British artic driver I'd be delighted.
In all the years I've been cycling Scottish roads I've never had so much as a minor incident with one of these guys.
On the other hand, tipper trucks and lighter goods trucks require less training and skill, and their drivers are often trying to re-enact 'Hell Drivers!' with Stanley Baker!.
BTW, TJ, Im sorry to disagree, but I've never seen a situation( other than a broken signal) where it was safer to RLJ.

westkipper – I can't be bothered doing this again – you can search out the thread on here from before if you want. There are many examples from many of us on it. Basically if by either going thru the lights as the last vehicle thru or by going a bit early you are not mixing it with cars at a pinch point then you safety is higher than if you get tangled up with cars at the pinch point

BTW, TJ, Im sorry to disagree, but I've never seen a situation( other than a broken signal) where it was safer to RLJ.

How about coming up to a junction, the light goes amber but behind you there's White Van Man revving hard to get across. That happens to me at least once a week (not always white vans, it could be anything) – if I were to stop he'd plough straight into the back of me.
The other common one is emergency vehicles coming and drivers usually panic completely, no-one has the faintest idea what to do. Easiest option is to use the emergency vehicle as cover and jump the lights with it.

TJ, I know the arguments,have read the threads, Its just one of these things that we have to agree to disagree on :-)I tend to be super assertive, but not impatient, and I just dont seem to get caught by these situations (famous last words!)

Fair enough – you ride in town much?

I find it almost relaxing riding in Edinburgh and even Glasgow, as you can hold the same speed as other traffic. Plenty of witnesses about too, which helps. Pretty much 100% of my dodgy incidents happen on country roads which are, in effect, lawless, and between all the smaller industrial towns which seem to have a high percentage of aggresive, possibly illegal drivers.