How cheap is it to product prototype? Just trying to produce some useful widgets.

Patent first then prototype or prototype then patent?

🙂

It depend what you are trying to prototype. You could use a 3D printer for some stuff but that would not be applicable for a new type of internal combustion engine valve or a new tent.

Do you need something functioning or is it just a model to see what it looks like? SLS prototyping would be your cheapest quickest method to “have a look at what it looks like”.

I am trying to prototype some component parts with no mechanical movement but when the parts are put together they will become functional.

Approximately how much will SLS cost?

Build a rapid prototyping machine yourself and then make the bits?

Have a look at RepRap…

It might be the cheapest… but am not sure it will be the quickest though…

If it’s patentable, don’t tell anyone unless they sign an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement). Get an NDA in place before you put it out to quote for a prototype or you’ll loose the ability to patent it as it’s in the public domain.

Have a think about how it’ll be made in production too. Could it be fabricated? One off machining? Are you checking cosmetics, strength, function, all of those?

If it involves complex shapes or curves then there are various 3D print options available for variable costs. SLS, FDM, SLA – all with pros and cons. Some suppliers give on-line quotes.

Is it drawn in 3D CAD already? You’ll need to provide a file, probably STL or IGES.

SLS varies pretty much as a function of size, for anything the size of say a mobile phone it would be a matter of a hundred quid or so. Ranging upwards to the thousands for larger more complex parts. As stated they can do it direct from a CAD model.

funkynick,

That’s very interesting … might give it a go when I have more time.

gravity-slave,

Good points. There are some complex shapes but I am still trying to decide the measurements and angles at the moment. I will decide on the materials as there are few that I can use.

🙂

Rapid prototyping is getting pretty good. There’s some good materials in use which are pretty robust so you can actually use the parts (a few years ago they weren’t as strong so you could look but they were very fragile.) I’ve used Arrk a few times, they have a good range of proceses so should have something suitable. You could also look at http://www.protomold.co.uk/ who will do quick tooling or machined parts, which may be useful for the next stage.
Agree about doing it in 3D but don’t forget you’ll need some way of detailing tolerances which is normally done on a drawing. Unless you do it’s hard to check what you’ve got meets the spec. Also worth checking whatever type of rapid prototyping meets the tolerance requirement you need.
Good luck, and don’t forget the NDA.

Thanks richmars.

The tolerance is extremely important as it determines the product effectiveness. It will sure work with poor tolerance but the effectiveness will be compromised.

🙂

Thought you would prototype as you built it
or design and prototype drawings and spec

grantway – Member

Thought you would prototype as you built it or design and prototype drawings and spec

This are the steps:

1) Drawing.
2) Design with proper specs.
3) Prototype.
4) Adjust the measurements if necessary.
5) Prototype again …

Hope that is the way … ❓

I have a very good NDA in word doc format you can have email in profile.

Cheapest and most efficient are different strategies.

I probably did the cheapest method when I was prototyping my battery holders a couple of years ago, pattern in card-backed foam, and then a silicon mould.

This produced a passable trial part, but it wasn’t very pretty!

3D printing quality is fantastic, and the new pattern produced great results.

Depends what resources you have available freely, and of course the type of part you are designing.

Cheers, Rich

This are the steps:

1) Drawing.
2) Design with proper specs.
3) Prototype.
4) Adjust the measurements if necessary.
5) Prototype again …

Given the cost and time of prototypes do everything you can to get it right first time (I’m sure you know that). Can you just make a bit up for your step 4 or do you need everything?

Your original question was patent first or prototype first. And which is cheaper. There is no right or wrong way or answer.

It is theoretically free to file a UK patent (if you write it and file it yourself). In reality most people engage a patent agent/attorney to do that for them as unless you are experienced you are likely to make omissions or errors which could later cause problems. A normal UK patent application by a patent attorney seems to cost around £2000. However you can normally get an initial meeting (30-60 minutes) free which will confirm if it is patentable (they almost always say yes, its how they make their money!) and discuss costs and possibly strategy with you. The Patent agent will also be able to discuss registerred and unregisttered design rights which may be relevant if the appearance is important.

I recently did some number crunching here – and we reckoned the new product needed to bring in >£100k of profit just to justify the cost of filing and maintaining patents. If it only brought in £100k though it is unlikely that many people are going to be copying your idea, and certainly you need to be in the millions before its worth suing someone for infringement! But patents aren’t just about the right to the monopoly they are about sending out a message, presenting yourself to investors and having something to “swap” if it turns out you are infringing someone else!

You don’t need to file quickly but there are pro’s and con’s of doing so. E.g. what happens if I file (or publicly disclose) something tomorrow which prevents you from getting your patent that you could have filed today – but the clock starts running from the day you file – so if it will take you 5 years to get to market then you have 5 yrs of cost with no income.

Professionally produced prototypes will cost from hundreds to thousands of pounds depending on what you need.

Sign up here and you can get instant quotes for SLS, SLA, & FDM, if you can generate STL files.

https://nextdayoqaos.materialise.com/?adsrc=OSHP

I am in middle of designing something for MTBers

1st. I made a prototype myself to make sure design/measurements were right.

2nd. Got two manufactures to make my prototype properly for free (A professional finish)

3rd. Just waiting on my prototypes to come back to me and to do any adjustments if needed.

4th. If everything is ok I will get it patent.

good luck, I won’t bother asking what it is 🙂

Thanks everyone. I just hope I can get it to work or at least get people to use it so let’s see. Oh ya … just to let everyone knows I am no engineer by the way so a steep learning curve here.

toys19, Email you now.

turboferret, Bloody hell … that’s very impressive!

richmars, I can probably get the measurement right the first time but being me I just hope I do not adjust it again as I have limited fund.

poly, That’s good advice that. Crikey … £2000!!!

ooOOoo, Once I am ready I will get a quote from them and a few more.

squiff, A few questions:

1) How do you design or do you measurements? What software?
2) How did you manage to get the manufacturers to prototype properly for free?
3) Did you get the manufacturers to sign NDA?
4) Do sure us your final product once you have patented it.

Could be some scope for bit of development in CAD before commiting to any physical parts. You can check out:
Aesthetics (different geometry / materials / finishes)
Structural integrity of parts through FEA
Analysis for manufacturing viability, e.g. draft angles on moulded parts.
Range of movement of any moving parts.

Whilst rapid prototyping (SLA/SLS/LOM/FDM) has its place, CNC machining of softer materials (ali, engineering plastics) can be pretty quick and the machines are now pretty common. All depends on the form of the parts and what you want to achieve with the prototype.

Cheers spandex_bob. CNC could be good too so long as it is not expensive.

Protomold have a quick cnc service as well. I’ve used it and it’s not bad. Very quick quote if you can upload a cad model (I’m bored in the dark winter evenings so could help here if you like).
http://www.firstcut.eu/gb/?s=PM

One advantage of cnc is you can use the same material as your final product, so testing is more realistic.

Bear in mind that protomold is very automated & machine everything from standard size blocks, so you can get some outrageous quotes for small parts as they might waste 95% of the block!

We do a lot of SLRP work. We also do a bit of production too.
Anyone who has an idea, you can run it past me for a professional appraisal no charge.
Don’t worry about patenting unless you have come up with something really extraordinary. The pros call it ‘vanity patenting”. The very last problem you will have is people copying your ideas.

Another option could be to contact a university that has the ability to help prototype and develop new products. I know they offer this in the department i study in at Strathclyde Uni, as they have 3D colour printers and the ability to produce 3D images through Inventor, CAD, ProEngineer, Catia, Solidworks and a 3D projector

chewkw

Q
1) How do you design or do you measurements? What software?
2) How did you manage to get the manufacturers to prototype properly for free?
3) Did you get the manufacturers to sign NDA?
4) Do sure us your final product once you have patented it.

A
1) I used Illustrator CS4 for my drawings and play around with cardboard and a ruler to get the size right, but I think I was lucky cos it worked almost straight away.

2) I email the manufacturers with my drawings and what I wanted plus you always ask for a sample.

3) Not yet. But they don’t know what it is, There are ways to do this if you do your research and just tell them what you want to tell them

4)I will, There is something similar out there to mine but mine gives the rider more options 😀

Squiff

+1 for SLS which is what we used for prototypes of this http://www.orbelhealth.com/

Designed in Rhino, fairly complex and high tolerance yet SLS was good enough and relatively cheap (£500 per pop).

Re Patent, really depends how big you think your market might be and if you’ll ever make any money. Expect to spend a lot of money if you want a decent Patent. Expect to spend sh1tloads if you want to do it in more territories than the UK.

And think about design for manufacture too (DFM) don’t bother designing something you can’t make at scale!

chewkw

My Prototype has arravied, well excited.

Now to see if it works 😀

Will report later

What kind of product is it? Broad description I mean

Intriguing looking product that damo

HA HA, it works :mrgreen:. Will test it tomorrow around the Bingley bash 😀

What’s the product?

Not telling 😆

But will do when I have my patent.

And I have just realised it can be used in 2 ways

You can say what it is in a broad sense!

Otherwise I doubt I can wait for you to save up for legals and then another few years for the patent…

Ok

It’s called Krap Katcher. Am sure you can work it out from that

So its another mudguard?!

Difference is this doesn’t flap about, protects your stantions, look very neat when on and is made so you can run thin tyres or big tyres and still keeps the mud out of your face and wont catch the guard if your tyres are full of mud, quite a simple but effective idea

I was holding out for some sheep shaped cufflinks.