Some of our pics from last week.

Ha ha been there, done that! Was that with Jamie & RideTheAlps?

Carl and Gareth I think?

Carl, Sian, Steve and me (Gareth), no one else!

I think you can go to prison for riding that route without Jamies say so.
Ha ha

Yep he will come & bounce his Orange all over yer garden! 😉 Still, l what a route! How was the carry? ps Weather looked great.

Looks fantastic, nice photos. How far was it in total?

The weather was great, we timed it that way! In fact that was not too hard, the weather seems to have been great since June. If you mean the carry up to the Basset de Lona, pictured below, then the answer is hard, really quite hard!

Yep thats the one..That pic brings back s few memories, painful ones..

I think the next time I might take the bus to Eison (1650m), sod purity!

Yeah that was a brutal climb but you know worth it I think – how good was the descent on the other side huh?

The "Jamie" comments are funny. Does he make his guests sign a confidentiality agreement? Makes me wonder?

No hes just such a decent guy that he generates a lot of loyalty & the world of MTB Guiding can be a bit cut throat so, you know, its easy to understand really.

The mountains are for everyone.

Cut throat? TIC surely! Agree wholeheartedly with "cupid stunt".

Never said they werent cupid – whats your point?

Having had some experience of guiding I know how competitive it can be when it comes to new ideas & routes. Imagine if you had spent several months surveying a route & working on the logistics. You finally get it just the way you want it & are ready to take new clients out. Within a week of the trip being finished you find your route has been posted on a website along with all the details. The next thing you know is your exclusive route is now known to one & all (including your competitors) & what was your USP in a small but hard market has gone. Remember this is someones livelihood here – yes I know that the mountains are free to all & rightly so but you should also respect the people who make a living from working there.

I struggled to find info on this route, so I'm writing up a description to help followers. I'm a slow typist put it's slowly coming together on http://www.endoftheride.com/2009/09/chamonix-to-zermatt/ I'll comment on the previous post in a moment.

Obviously I am also a guide (of 10 years standing now), I live and work (pay my taxes)in France. I know my philosophy is not in agreement with everyones and don't really want to get in an argument. But here it is anyway. I have always freely published all the routes I know. I give and I take, I think that the more routes riders know about the more the "load" on the trails is spread around. One of the issues in my area is too much use on just a few trails, surely if everyone had a better knowledge of the area this would even things out a bit.

I understand the commercial argument but have always been happy to mark maps of anyone who comes to our chalets in Morzine, they don't have to be staying with me and they don't have to pay for them! I see it as a service. You turn up at any outfitter in America and you'll get the same.

As far as the "but all the work in and have the route stolen by others" goes, an operator will make his reputation (and business) from the service he/she offers, I don't believe anyone has ownership or copyright of any route in/across/under or over the mountains. My background is kayaking and climbing. The same philosophy carries over from there. All the routes are always freely published.

Good points & well made endless I hear what your saying & understand & in some way agree with a lot of what you say. In the end the info will end up being public w/o a doubt, but I do feel for the guys & girls who put in the hard miles & only enjoy the fruits of their labour for a short while..

It seems a shame though that you feel the need to spread the load onto others areas in this way rather than a perhaps opening a dialogue with your competitors & perhaps finding another solution?

Thank you for your understanding. I say that sincerely. I was referring to the Portes du Soleil when I was talking about "spreading the load". I did ask Jamie if he would tell me the route. I also said that if he did tell me the route then he could always ask me to keep it to myself – which I would. He would not tell me the route and suggested that I'd not find the exact route that he takes. So I have no idea if the route I did is "his" route. I suspect some of it is and some of it isn't, it doesn't really matter, that is the beauty of finding your own way!

No worries endless, Im glad this didnt end up in some childish handbaggery! I havent ridden PDS for just the reasons you cite, its also why I went & rode with Jamie.

I wish you all the best for the future, have a good one!

These routes have been built up by generations of French, Swiss and Italians, not us. We have no ownership or right to any of this and are v.lucky that we can generate an income from it.

Just my opinion of course…. 😉

I can see how guides would want to keep some routes hush hush, especially if there was a real danger of them becoming really cut up and eroded.

great Pics – 😛
and great info – thas on my "to do" list now!

RepacK,
My point is people with a small budget will be able to do the route with the info from Endlessride.

I sometimes wonder about this. How many people do actually go and do these routes under their own steam? Some, obviously. Freeridenick being one of them. I don’t think there are many others though. A dozen? 20?

As an example (1) I blogged one of my favourite routes on a weekly basis from Morzine on http://www.ridemorzine.org/, gpx files, videos, in fact it became a bit of a standing joke this summer. “Where've you been today? Samoens?” Yes, I like it.

The Singletrack Crew even rode it with their guide Lionel (now he IS a pro) and followed it up with a video on the front page of this website.
Now Morzine is one the most popular biker destinations in the Alps, there are even a couple of guide books, both of which feature this route (the Bourgeoisie descent to Samoëns). I never saw another rider on the route all year. Hardly saw any tracks. This route is accessed by lift and the map reading is easy (it's signposted!).

Makes me wonder.

Example 2. Last year we rode the TMB at the same time of year as mid-September. Now this route is well know and is run commercially in both directions by any number of companies. There was one other group on the route. We never saw them but we did follow their tracks most of the way. I wondered who these guys were, 3 months later I met them. This year on the Chamonix / Zermatt we followed two bike tracks, we bumped into the riders this time. It was the same bloke as the year before.

We are a small community, there are a lot of tracks out there.

For what it's worth, I'm going to stick my neck out and agree with Gareth. As a guide, there are all sorts of ways you pick up ideas for new trails. Photos, vids and trip reports that people put on-line can occasionally be useful, but the fact is that by far the best results come from hours with a map and a lot more hours out on the trail following your nose. The photos that Gareth has put up above hardly amount to a detailed route description and even if they did, Chamonix-Zermatt is hardly a new idea. The "Haute Route", either on skis or on foot has been around for a long, long time (ditto Tour de Mont Blanc). What makes a trip like this is the organisation, logistics and the quality of the guiding. The route is almost incidental – you can hardly fail to do some great riding. We're pretty open about our routes (joking aside for those who have ridden Pipedream with me!) and, like Gareth, I've often offered to mark up maps or discuss trails with people who are in the area, even if they're not staying with us. We have a number of local competing guiding companies in the valley, but the fact is that I can only remember meeting another group on the trails once all summer. Plenty of room for everyone.

Your right, can't beat an IGN map and a sense of adventure!

Gareth, by the way we once went Helisking together back in the day, I used to work for Darren Woodley skiguiding – we all went to Valgrisenche in april 2003.

Freeridenick, I did wonder! The question is, were you one of those naughty snowboarders or did you have two planks?

A bit of nostaglia here

The answer!

was a fun day.

Scandalous!

Very memorable too.