What I like is when people indicate when they’re already halfway through the manouvre. Cheers, that’s real useful.

Signal, manouvre, mirror seems to be the current fashion on motorways these days. 🙄

My instructor was a stalwart of indicating, correct use of roundabouts etc. These days, from what I’ve seen, they are taught to drive in order to pass a test.

Am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here? Surely indicating and correct use of roundabouts is still required to pass a test?

signal, manouvre, mirror seems to be the current fashion on motorways these days

It’s not really a new phenomenon, I’ve seen people doing it for as long as I’ve been driving.

Surely indicating and correct use of roundabouts is still required to pass a test?

Yes, but as I said – they think the indicating thing is just to pass the test. Once passed, what’s the point?

I’m another one who drives for their job, with an annual driving assessment for up to 7.5T vehicles so kept in check. A few observations, which are all personal opinions:

Driving standards are getting worse across the board. With no traffic officers to keep a check on things the bad drivers do what they please, which makes everyone else do similar as they follow the herd. Not indicating, poor lane discipline, ignoring speed limits, parking where they feel like etc is now the norm, not the exception.

If drivers think they can get away with it, they will. The M4 through Newport has been a managed motorway for a few years now with speed camera signs. Word go out that they weren’t switched on so they were routinely ignored. They were switched on this week, with all the signs announcing it. Everyone now obeys the limit but you can still see loads of people on their phones, no seatbelts or doing other stuff rather than paying attention to driving. If there’s no Police car around they only worry about speed and nothing else, just look at the reaction of a busy motorway when one of those Traffic Wombles join, everyone brakes and behaves for a few seconds then clocks it’s not the ‘fuzz’ so go back to normal behaviour.

Our ageing population means that her are loads of drivers out there that really shouldn’t be. Not all old people are poor drivers but you only have to notice the difference between weekday traffic behaviour and weekends, which is where the leisure drivers come out to play.

Driving is seen as a right, not a privilege. This needs to be changed. The whole idea of claiming hardship so you don’t get banned when you get 12+ points is laughable, no deterrent whatsoever.

A lot of people aren’t petrolheads so have no real interest in looking after their car more than the odd wash and getting it serviced when the dashboard light says so. This means there are loads of cars out there with blown bulbs, poor wiper blades, stuff stuck all over the windows (‘funny’ slogans, mini football scarves etc) and – my pet peeve – knackered tyres. I see far too many cars with worn tyres, some down to the carcass, or with really crap ‘ditch magnets’. The assumption that the car is fine as it passed the last MOT is dangerous but seemingly universal. The MOT tester that does the work vehicles also deals with a lot of 3 year old lease cars and he says the amount of cars that have never ha d a tyre checked, wipers changed or a bulb replaced in those 3 years is shocking.

We need more traffic police to catch the poor/dangerous drivers and to stamp out the bad behaviours. The lane hogging rule becoming an endorsable offence came in a while ago now and I seem to remember that in that time only one person has been done for it. I see it all the time. Same with using a mobile, illegal but no-one ever gets done for it.

Not bothered if no-one reads all that, was theraputic to write it all!! I’m off out on the bike to relax 😳

GrahamS – Member
Roundabouts are terrible these days.
Had to laugh when some random driving-related Facebook group posted the “How to use a roundabout” diagram from the Highway Code and the comments were full of people “correcting” the diagram and drawing their own versions
Apparently the use of indicators and lanes is all wrong.

Indeed, although mini roundabouts with different signalling conventions don’t help (well they don’t help at all for anyone ever to be honest)

GrahamS – Member
Roundabouts are terrible these days.
Had to laugh when some random driving-related Facebook group posted the “How to use a roundabout” diagram from the Highway Code and the comments were full of people “correcting” the diagram and drawing their own versions
Apparently the use of indicators and lanes is all wrong.

Indeed, although mini roundabouts with different signalling conventions don’t help (well they don’t help at all for anyone ever to be honest)

Not bothered if no-one reads all that

I read most. But I think you’re living in a fantasy world!

Driving is seen as a right, not a privilege. This needs to be changed.
Never going to be changed. Self driving cars is the only hope we have.

We need more traffic police
We have less traffic police – hence the reduction in mobile phone convictions reported this very day.

A lot of people aren’t petrolheads so have no real interest in looking after their car
I’m glad to say this includes me. But I know how to use my indicators, unlike most “petrol-heads” I see about.

agent007:
..Amount of times I’ve been the green car on your diagram .. and the blue car hasn’t turned left or gone straight on, but just as I’m alongside side it has carried on going right round the roundabout

I used to go through a two-lane roundabout every day where literally everybody used lane one regardless of the exit they were aiming for.

Being the pedant I am I tried to use lane two, as I was aiming for the last exit, but I regularly found myself getting stuck there with people refusing to let me out presumably because I was “skipping the queue”.

In the end I had to swallow my principles and follow the other sheep.

I used to go through a two-lane roundabout every day where literally everybody used lane one regardless of the exit they were aiming for.

Being the pedant I am I tried to use lane two, as I was aiming for the last exit, but I regularly found myself getting stuck there with people refusing to let me out presumably because I was “skipping the queue”.

In the end I had to swallow my principles and follow the other sheep.

same here – I lived about 50 yards from it.

It even had dotted lines painted to show people how to use the lanes properly and everyone bloody ignored them 😆 😡

Generally society is getting more and more selfish. People want what they want and now

It goes along with rights and responsibilities. People claiming their rights but not accepting they have certain responsibilities to others and to respect their rights.

Lane markings don’t always help.

Here’s a roundabout from my old commute that I confess I never quite got the hang of:

I’d be joining it at the red dot, looking to take the first exit, but end up in lane two at the blue dot (because lane one on that exit is left turn only and both lanes would typically be queued solid back to this point).

But that puts me in direct conflict with people on lane two of the roundabout who want to come off there (e.g. following the lane dividers, but ignoring the straight on only arrows).

Thoughts?

it’s very annoying, large/2 lane roundabouts could shift traffic a lot quicker if everyone indicated properly. I know plenty of roundabouts don’t have nicely spaced exits at 12, 3, 6 and 9oclock but you can make a good guess at it. if you’re approaching from 6oclock intending to take the first exit and it’s before about 11 then you indicate left, any exit between 11 and 1 no indication on entry but indicate when suitable for exiting, any exit after 1 indicate right on entry and left after the exit before yours – does this sound about right?

Dodgy T junction on my commute where I go right, big junction often has tailbacks, mandatory cycle lane on approach nobody indicates, it’s a T junction FFS everybody should be indicating, it’s not difficult, it’s people not giving a shit.

Not bothered if no-one reads all that, was theraputic to write it all!! I’m off out on the bike to relax

I’m not sure if it’s confirmation bias, but one thing I will agree with you on is headlights. I’m sure the number of people driving around with a headlamp out has vastly increased in the last few years (them who bother to switch them on at all, that is).

BMWs don’t even have indicators do they?

any exit after 1 indicate right on entry and left after the exit before yours – does this sound about right?

It does, but that it isn’t what the Highway Code actually says:

When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise:

• signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
• keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.

When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise:

• signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
• keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
• signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

• select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
• you should not normally need to signal on approach
• stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
• signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it.

Rule 186

Personally if I were king and I was devising the road rules from scratch I would require everyone to be indicating at all times on a roundabout.
Left = coming off at the next exit, Right = staying on at next exit.
Clear and unambiguous.

And allows the installation of “indicator cameras” to make sure people stick to it 😀

but one thing I will agree with you on is headlights

I realised the other week that one of my brake-light bulbs was out, it took me about an hour to replace it, the access to the bulb was shockingly badly thought out and the number of steps to get to the cluster was mad. I can certainly see why people don’t do it. Not an excuse I know.

Far too many other things going on inside cars these days. Bad enough people using their mobiles but now I believe Mazda sells a car that reads out your Facebook posts? I mean what the actual ****?

I bring this guy when i’m driving, really seems to help at roundabouts

Yeah we’ve moaned about that before nickc. I think there should be a legal requirement that all new cars are designed so that the main bulbs can be changed at the roadside without tools.

Driving M4 – M25 this week. Just have to let it wash over me…

A small rant about Hyundai.
You’ve bought a Hyundai, you clearly have no interest in cars, how to drive or how to improve your driving. You’ve bought a 4 wheeled kitchen appliance. White goods for the road.
Quickly replacing the Audi drivers as the most inconsiderate driver on the road. Similar in no indication, no idea about lane discipline. Dissimilar in driving in the middle lane with the inside lane free, just a difference in speed. Equally annoying and on the increase.
Always in white as well.

Not indicating drives me mad: Not only is it dangerous, it just totally inconsiderate. That and indicating right to go straight on at roundabouts.

On the indicating to go straight on, a couple of roundabouts i do this on to ensure no one assume i am going with the traffic flow. The main direction of travel is left, straight on is a dirt road. No one in their right mind goes straight on. if i don’t indicate i get cars pulling straight out.

Just have to do what keeps you alive.

And we desperately need more traffic police.

ade9933 – Member
BMWs don’t even have indicators do they?

They do, but they’re a bit fiddly. 😆

GrahamS – Member

Here’s a roundabout from my old commute that I confess I never quite got the hang of:

Thoughts?

I would use the left hand lane (where your red dot is, if I was going left & intending to stay left…
The road markings aren’t great, but the middle lane on entry allows you to get onto the roundabout & come off it at the first exit in the correct lane for the rest of your journey.

The ‘straight on’ arrow in that lane should really (IMO) be straight on & left arrow combined) as the two lanes coming off the roundabout allow you to do that in a way that doesn’t get in the way of any other drivers.

I tend to stick to the road markings, unless they are obviously crap.

On the way out of Peterborough towards home, there are a succession of roundabouts on a dual carriageway. If going straight on, you can be in either lane at the roundabout until you get to a particular one, where the right hand lane is indicated as right only. The roundabout is the same size as the others around it, the ‘right turn’ is no more busy than any of the others, there are two lanes on the roundabout and absolutely no reason I can see why you can’t carry straight on, but the arrow says right only. I ignore that one, as it’s clearly nonsense…
This one…..approaching from bottom right, it says right lane is right turn only….but I can see no sensible reason why, particularly when taking into account the roundabouts leading up to it and after it, where there is no arrow to stipulate the same thing…..

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.608387,-0.2746597,176m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

the middle lane on entry allows you to get onto the roundabout & come off it at the first exit in the correct lane for the rest of your journey.

It allows you to physically do that, but requires you to ignore the arrows (and approach sign) that clearly show that the middle lane on approach and on the roundabout is Straight On Only.

My view is that only lane 1 allows you to come off at that exit, so (if people followed the markings) the traffic flow should do this:

Only lane 1 exits and drivers can select the correct lane to exit on (same as the green car in the Highway Code diagram on the previous page).

Drivers joining the roundabout from other entrances should select the correct lane when the roundabout goes from two lanes to three (yellow path).

But yes, I came into conflict with lots of drivers who took your view that the arrows and signs were wrong and therefore I was wrong. 😕

I get your reasoning, but I think it’s just a badly thought out set of instructions (arrows), to be honest.
You have marked out that there’s a straight on arrow on the inside lane of the roundabout in the shadows. But that lane is clearly not for going straight on, from the entry point that you have denoted; that indicated it is for turning right.

If they wanted people to do what you suggest with the left only turn, they should have marked the rest of the roundabout to denote that the middle lane carries on round and that the exit splits into two lane choices. As it stands, the middle lane forking at that exit (with no demarcation) would lead me to think I could use the middle lane to come off there directly into the right hand lane, or I could proceed round the roundabout to the next exit.

Dunno, it’s probably one of those roundabouts that works fine in practice but looks like a right pigs ear from the air….

You have marked out that there’s a straight on arrow on the inside lane of the roundabout in the shadows

You’re right. My bad. I checked the StreetView, that one’s a right only arrow to match the entrance arrows.

As it stands, the middle lane forking at that exit (with no demarcation) would lead me to think I could use the middle lane to come off there directly into the right hand lane, or I could proceed round the roundabout to the next exit.

Yep – and that’s what people do – but then they come into conflict with people like me who are following the arrows and signs. 😕

Dunno, it’s probably one of those roundabouts that works fine in practice but looks like a right pigs ear from the air….

Nah it is chaos on the ground too. 😆 That’s why I think it is a good example.

Here’s the StreetView (on a nice quiet day) if you want to virtually drive it. You are positioned near the red dot.
https://goo.gl/maps/XSL7xMpAyxz

Try driving in Spain.

I hired a car in Gran Canaria last week I’m convinced the only other people indicating at roundabouts were other tourists. Three times I got cut up by people going all the way round the roundabout from the right most lane.

UK driving is a paragon a virtue by comparison

Imo:

The folk who don’t use their indicator are selfish and employ this “technique” to gain priority.

The folk who use their indicators, incorrectly, are muppets.

However, the folk who think that indicating right, while joining the motorway = any traffic in lane one, MUST slow or move to lane 2.
Are oxygen thieves!

My 2p, driving has certainly become more agro in the last couple of years (10-15) it seems to me lots of people think nothing of joining the shortest queue at junction and going for a last moment aggressive lane change at the other end to save themselves a few mins wait. In fairness to them they ALWAYS indicate as they carve up the poor sod who has waited in the correct lane for 4-5 light changes.

Roundabouts in and around Cardiff are a bloody lottery – they’ve mostly multi-lane and have usually been ‘optimised’ so you can forget what you learned in the highway code in regards to lanes – you’ve got to read the signs or worse, rely on road markings you can’t see for traffic, which means there’s 3 types of user – the users who knows which lane you supposed to use for that particular roundabout and uses it correctly, the user who doesn’t know the particular rules for that roundabout and relies on standard rules from the HC, and thirdly the **** who just takes the shortest queue and throws it at the exit they want – it’s chaos and at least party to blame why I can’t remember the last time we went a week without a major accident on the M4 or A470 meaning huge tailbacks.

Of course whilst Drivers are bad, when it comes to indication Cyclists are by far the worst, I can’t remember the last time I saw one stick an arm out.

However, the folk who think that indicating right, while joining the motorway = any traffic in lane one, MUST slow or move to lane 2.

this is, pretty much word for word, what my wife’s driving instructor taught her c. 2007 😮

A lot of people aren’t petrolheads so have no real interest in looking after their car more than the odd wash and getting it serviced when the dashboard light says so. This means there are loads of cars out there with blown bulbs, poor wiper blades, stuff stuck all over the windows (‘funny’ slogans, mini football scarves etc) and – my pet peeve – knackered tyres. I see far too many cars with worn tyres, some down to the carcass, or with really crap ‘ditch magnets’. The assumption that the car is fine as it passed the last MOT is dangerous but seemingly universal. The MOT tester that does the work vehicles also deals with a lot of 3 year old lease cars and he says the amount of cars that have never ha d a tyre checked, wipers changed or a bulb replaced in those 3 years is shocking.

Yep and these are probably the same people who have no interest in further driver training, have clearly jumped on the ‘speed kills’ bandwagon and would probably flash you aggressively if you dared to overtake them.

As an instructor, I always teach roundabouts by asking how to indicate, filling any gaps in their knowledge, but asking them why they need to indicate.

Most of them get it correct but I find that a have to constantly keep on top of them through lessons as most of them stop doing it correctly, especially when going straight on and turning right.

Had one student say to me yesterday ” no one else does so why should I ” 😯

Seems they either copy their mates or parents. People saying we only teach them to pass, I don’t I teach them to drive but I’m not sat there after they pass. We can only do so much to their attitude.

Regarding Traffic Police, I was talking to a Bobby last week who was covering Bolton and Bury. On his own. His base was Manchester.

That’s a massive area to cover and no doubt there are that many incidents he doesn’t get time to patrol.

Regarding Traffic Police, I was talking to a Bobby last week who was covering Bolton and Bury. On his own. His base was Manchester.

He’s got his work cut out then. Worst driving in the country.
FACT.

Had one student say to me yesterday ” no one else does so why should I “
Seems they either copy their mates or parents.

Another argument, if one was needed, for periodic retests to remind people what they are meant to be doing.

I agree that drivers seem to be more inconsiderate in recent years. As well as not bothering to indicate and widespread use of phones while driving, I’ve noticed drivers accelerating towards pedestrians walking across the road, failing to stop at zebra crossings, stopping on pedestrian crossings when queueing, and forcing you to reverse half the length of a street because they can’t or won’t reverse a car length themselves. The worst displays of driving are during the school run, when some people seem to think the Highway Code and the safety of pedestrians (mostly school kids) don’t apply if you’re a parent on the school run.

The exception to the diagram I encounter is at Ripley nr Harrogate, where the A61 continues from the 3rd exit, that is, the Right Hand option. But its the same road number so no indicating necessary as it classes as straight on… apparently.

I can’t possibly see how this can be right. Road number has no bearing on roundabout indication. How one earth would that work sensibly anywhere?

This is wrong isn’t it?

I was assuming (hoping) he was being facetious.

Hooray for Yehuda! I miss that strip.

When I got taught, a wee while ago right enough: first exit was left, nest was straight on, and everything after that was a right turn, so indicate accordingly. When on a roundabout signal your intention to leave when passing the exit before the one you wish to use.

If your exit is blocked, remain on the roundabout, but if this means doing more than three laps leave by the next available exit (and find another way home sunshine).

Has it changed?