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Body Armour

68 posts & 39 voices | Started 9 months ago by uplink | Latest reply from TandemJeremy

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uplink - Member

From my motorcycle racing days [road and MX] wearing all sort of protection, I concluded that it does a fair old job of protecting you from damage enroute to the end of the accident - passing trees and rocks etc - and much less if there's a final sudden stop

I rode up that hill 8 times over 8 hours [training for Kielder] What struck me was the vast differnce in what armour people were using or not using for the same course on similar bikes.

The guys at the hut at the top must of thought I was a right nutter, continually going past and dumping gel wrappers in their bin every time

Posted 9 months ago #
gazc - Member

have you ridden the downhill tracks at hamsterley? no way i'd be wanting to do any of them without my body armour and full face/goggles. if anything since i used to ride dh regularly there about 8-9 years ago the actual DH'ers wear less body armour. the weekend warrior brigade are definitely wearing more

Posted 9 months ago #
hora - Member

I didn't wear any knee protection for years until earlier this year gave me abit of surprise. That ickle accident could have meant upto a year of non-riding, non-walking much hassle. (the date on the pic's wrong by a year).

After that I don't ride without knee pads. Just can't afford not to.

Posted 9 months ago #
Northwind - Member

uplink - Member

From my motorcycle racing days [road and MX] wearing all sort of protection, I concluded that it does a fair old job of protecting you from damage enroute to the end of the accident - passing trees and rocks etc - and much less if there's a final sudden stop

That's it, perfect. Nice one!

Posted 9 months ago #
uplink - Member

have you ridden the downhill tracks at hamsterley?

Are you crazy?
I didn't pay good money for tyres to have them off the gound

Posted 9 months ago #
hora - Member

Actually Anyone got a tatty pressure suit thing etc for sale?

Posted 9 months ago #
kimbers - Member

im too freaking old not to wear body armour for dh these days

my knees are pretty shagged from crashing on rocks back in the day

Posted 9 months ago #
Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

You see a lot of people in knee pads around here so do you in scotland. In the south of the UK, a lot less...

Seeing them more round here (Chilterns). Flint + silly off = potentially several stitches.

Posted 9 months ago #
cookeaa - Member

I daresay that Dan Atherton breaking his knee prompted quite a few DH'ers to buy neck braces too.

I reckon Breaking his neck probably had more of an influence....

When I last raced DH a couple of years ago now, Leatts were just starting to be seen at races, Having gone to Aston a couple of times in the last few months they seem a bit more common, maybe 1 in every 7-8 riders in one Vs 1 in about 30-40 a couple of years ago so I guess they're more accepted...

You look at some of the debates on SDH and similar sites though they still seem to kick up quite a fuss still, some claim they are merly a fashion accessory and are more likely to break your collar bone than save your neck, where as others view them as essential protective wear and won't even consider stradling a DH bike without one on, I have to say I'm yet to be convinced either way on Neck braces myself and they are still really bloody expensive and the substantiation of them still seems a bit tenuous, but the type of injury they claim to address is probably the most significnt you could sustain (short of death) on a push bike...

As for other more general Body armour, I think if you are going to push yourself riding DH then you really need some Torso and definately Spine protection, I use Knee pads alot not just for DH, but have never really bothered with Elbow pads (not sure why, it's not like my elbows are any less likely to get smashed up in a crash I suppose) and I only use my FF for DH days....

Ultimately it all coms down to risk perception and assessment, everything in life carries risks; DH racing and riding you are choosing to tackle lots of difficult and high risk obsticals at speed but only for relatively short periods (say 1.5 - 5 minutes depending on the run), on my normal XC loop I'll ride for several hours at a time, but the risk factor for 90% of that is relatively low and for the tastier stuff you'll often ride a bit more "Feet up" rather than really attack in case a stack means not getting home, so it's XC piss pot and maybe knee pads, in fact I'd go so far as to say getting storm troopered up for a longer ride probably increases the risk of a stack, you'll get hot, dehydrated and tired quicker, thus making a mistake more likely... IMO...

Posted 9 months ago #
Northwind - Member

I think Leatts needed a long time before people got use to the looks of them... But also, I remember trying out one of the earliest production Leatt braces on the motorbike a long time ago and it was terrible. Hard to adjust, uncomfortable to wear, all the design work seemed to have gone into the protection but not the practicality. I wouldn't have worn one if you paid me. But these days evolution has made a big difference.

Also, wasn't the pushiron-specific Leatt only released in the last couple of years?

Posted 9 months ago #
scruff - Member

I've not had many big crashes wearing armour trying bigger stuff, but had lots of proper crashes wearing none doing easier stuff. I think the armour allows you to concentrate more on what you are actually doing, rather than having a bit of brain taking up concentration space being worried about getting hurt or whats for tea...

Posted 9 months ago #
hora - Member

I did my knee whilst thinking about a curry for tea.

Posted 9 months ago #
GW - Member

hora - Member
Actually Anyone got a tatty pressure suit thing etc for sale?
got a full Dainese suit that's not been used for years now but I've always imagined you to be a short bloke.

Posted 9 months ago #
cookeaa - Member

I think the armour allows you to concentrate more on what you are actually doing, rather than having a bit of brain taking up concentration space being worried about getting hurt or whats for tea...

Nah your Brain allows you to concentrate, what you are talking about is the "Storm trooper placebo effect" basically armour does not make you a better or worse rider, it's a passive measure to try and mitigate against injury in a potential ballsup situations and that's all it does Mitigate, not Prevent.

However indestructible you "feel" you ain't, as ever the best way to guard against injury is reasonable levels of PPE (Thats all Helmets and armour really are) and training, so going on a skills course will probably help reduce injuries by improving your ability to avoid accidents in the first place...

Posted 9 months ago #
messiah - Member

In the work environment PPE is the last line of defence, in the play environment it's a highly visible status symbol of max radness

Seriously, it's all bikes and it's all good. A friend of mine is currently recovering from injuries sustained when another rider hit him. He survived the Mega and did very well... and was taken out on a dodgy daft fireroad corner while doing nothing that would cause a second glance. Should he have been wearing armour when it happened... hell no... sometimes s*&^ happens.

Posted 9 months ago #
hora - Member

got a full Dainese suit that's not been used for years now but I've always imagined you to be a short bloke.

Including lower part? A sort of 70's Cat Suit for people who need protection?

Posted 9 months ago #
kudos100 - Member

After 2 dislocated shoulders and one mangled collarbone in 12 months, I won't ride big jumps or dh without it.

Posted 9 months ago #
cookeaa - Member

After 2 dislocated shoulders and one mangled collarbone in 12 months, I won't ride big jumps or dh without it.

Out of interest, have you been on or considered going on a Skills course from the point of view of trying to reduce the number of stacks you have?

Posted 9 months ago #
downshep - Member

I need to be physically able for my job and can't afford to be deskbound through injury. I now habitually wear elbow pads simply because that's what I always seem to land on when I fall off. Never, ever landed on my knees, so don't wear knee pads. Don't care if I'm the only one in a group with armour on, or indeed what comments it attracts. My elbows, my choice.

Posted 9 months ago #
Northwind - Member

cookeaa - Member

Out of interest, have you been on or considered going on a Skills course from the point of view of trying to reduce the number of stacks you have?

I gather that Sam Hill crashes quite a bit, probably he should go on a skills course too

Posted 9 months ago #
Hob Nob - Member

After 2 dislocated shoulders and one mangled collarbone in 12 months, I won't ride big jumps or dh without it.

Wearing armour will make precisely sod all difference on that type of injury.

It's hugely unlikely to stop any breaks, it will help with the nasty cuts, grazes and bruising that might have you off the bike for a few days though

Posted 9 months ago #
grum - Member

Nah your Brain allows you to concentrate, what you are talking about is the "Storm trooper placebo effect"

I don't agree - a lot of the problem when trying sketchier stuff for many people is your brain going 'ooh hang on do I really want to be doing this?' at the last minute. Even a tiny bit of extra confidence can be helpful in these situations imo. For instance, most of the time if you're doing drops, a bit of speed is a good thing.

Posted 9 months ago #
mikewsmith - Member

was just reading up on some advice for Les Arcs from Trail Addiction and White Room both fairly pointing out that if your spending all day going downhill you might aswell take the pads. Kind of sums up common sense

Posted 9 months ago #
Northwind - Member

Hob Nob - Member

Wearing armour will make precisely sod all difference on that type of injury.

Actually there's 2 ways it can help.

You're right that armour isn't good for shoulders and collarbones, it's a momentum injury so it's not what you hit that breaks it. Armour's of very limited use for impact reduction there.

But, what it can do, is reduce the leverage effect. Hard armour can slide where an unarmoured body might not, which can reduce the leverage effect (for instance, you stick an elbow into the ground and stop hard, vs sticking an elbow into the ground and slide for longer)

The other half is psychological. This doesn't work for everyone, but I think most folks realise that a major cause of injury is sticking your arms out- a nice big lever with your shoulder and collarbone at the end. The arm-out and stiffening up reflexes are something that some people will find reduces with the feeling of reduced vulnerability.

Or in other words- you stick your arms out reflexively because your brain thinks it'll reduce the pain of the landing. Feeling more secure can reduce the chance of that.

Hob Nob - Member

It's hugely unlikely to stop any breaks

Any breaks? Not so much. Armour is very effective against specific sorts of injury. Land on an elbow on a big rock and a fracture's a pretty likely outcome, and it's significantly less likely with the impact reduction and spread effect of good armour. And that's a very common cycling injury.

Posted 9 months ago #
GW - Member

Including lower part?
if you keep telling everyone of your shortcomings willy nilly you're unlikely to ever require protection Hora.

Posted 9 months ago #
hora - Member

Sniff GW actually I'm 6ft1.9 GSOH, someone elses hair and possess a 2lb cock.

Posted 9 months ago #
ridingscared - Member

Sniff GW actually I'm 6ft1.9 GSOH, someone elses hair and possess a 2lb cock.

thats nothing- this blokes cock must weigh about 2 stone

Posted 9 months ago #
iainc - Member

Don't care if I'm the only one in a group with armour on, or indeed what comments it attracts
oops, I didn't think I said it out loud

but we did have a chuckle at GT on Sunday at the young guy with the big bike, full face helmet and......a sleeveless vest !

Posted 9 months ago #
kaesae - Member

I always wear as much armour as I think is justifiable, going without it is just an unnecessary risk.

Posted 9 months ago #
hora - Member

Ridingscared he's laughing at me saying 'yeah biatch, whose the daddy? Whose the daddy?

Posted 9 months ago #
kudos100 - Member

Out of interest, have you been on or considered going on a Skills course from the point of view of trying to reduce the number of stacks you have?

No.

Posted 9 months ago #
toys19 - Member

This myth that armour doesn't offer protection is very amusing, I think shoulder cap and upper arm armour may go quite long way to protecting against shoulder and collar bone injuries. Any thing that spreads the load will reduce the point load that gets passed on, instead of jarring your collar bone through a shoulder or elbow impact, it may just feel pressure.

Its personal choice, I've had some pretty big impacts and been so glad of my armour, getting back on and riding off is the best feeling ever.

Posted 9 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

risk compensation? feel safer so take more risks?

If you don't believe this happens try the opposite - riding naked I bet you will slow down.

Posted 9 months ago #