If I was easily offended I think those Northumberland students might have offended me with a entirely inappropriate choice of music which is not only in bad taste but totally out of context.
Moronic **** who are full of a misplaced sense of self importance. 
ernie_lynch - Member
Whilst I can't condone police violence, these are indeed exciting times. After decades of complete political apathy from Britain's youth and students, I am watching their radicalisation and politicisation before my very eyes.
so anything less than mass protest and street violence is apathy, I'm sure all the very politically active students of the last decades with thank you for your recognition of their efforts
I simply couldn't believe that the police had used kettling against school children the other day.
why were children at the protest? do you know where your kids are?
I know how much anger and frustration which to (in effect) be imprisoned for many hours despite having done absolutely nothing illegal, causes.
just becuase you couldn't go to starbucks to discuss how you "fought the state" over your fairtrade java
I also know how it exposes the limitations on our democracy, and how it leaves the victim feeling powerless.
what's the problem? lots more people disagree with you and demonstrate this at the ballot box rather than running around city centres . As you IIRC declare yourself not to be a Labour party supporter how exactly do you get your representation in the current democratic structures used in this country?
Britain's school children and students are experiencing a very steep learning curve. What they experiencing and learning now will to an extent, stay with them for the rest of their lives.
I hope so, a quick analysis of the "fees" issues leads me to believe that maths teaching is at a historically low level and most can't ,won't or CBA to work out that they will pay less than in the current system
They will very quickly move beyond the narrow issue of student fees, as they start linking their own predicament with the wider struggle against Tory ideologically motivated spending cuts. And as they start to challenge one set of "truths", it will automatically lead them to challenge another set.
yes a lot of them will realise that getting a caution or worse for a public order offence will adversly affect their ability to get a job that requires any sort of CRB check
A significant proportion will join political parties and become politically active as a direct result of their initial involvement in the student fees protests. They will carry this on into adulthood.
brilliant, hopefully we will have another wave of far left stdents who grow up into centre right politicians
Contrast this, with the decades of slick marketing in which Britain's youth meekly and unquestioningly bought the empty dream that they could all personally achieve fame and fortune.
you can't blame Simon Cowell for everything 
Thank you Tory/LibDem government........you are sowing seeds. And you will reap what you sow. I really couldn't have asked for more.
I think Labour sowed the seeds,
'Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left,'
the current government is managing the consequences
Lifer - interesting how those students, apart from the link with tax avoidance, were also able to feel a link between cuts in education spending and cuts in police spending.
Which is a pretty important point imo. And one which shows that the Bullingdon Boys really haven't thought through the consequences of their mindless vandalism of the public sector. Thatcher at least had the common sense to give police officers massive pay rises before embarking on her destruction of British manufacturing industries .... she knew damn well that she would have to rely on the police to do her bidding. And didn't they do well during the miners strike eh ?
Yeah, an excellent video and pretty inspiring imo. Although the most depressing aspect is that, because of the dire state of the British left and the fact that British trade unions are effectively buggered, all that youthful anger has no effective vehicle to be channelled via or to provide coordinated action. Still, they say that crises tend to throw up leaders, so let's hope that happens and the left stops pissing in the wilderness and the trade union movement gets off its knees.
and the left stops pissing in the wilderness
I thought they lived on chat forums
say that crises tend to throw up leaders,
big_n_daft......point by point rebuttals are very messy.......I really can't be bothered reading all that.
Shall I just take it that you don't agree with me ?
But hey...........thanks for taking the time btw *thumbs up*
big_n_daftI hope so, a quick analysis of the "fees" issues leads me to believe that maths teaching is at a historically low level and most can't ,won't or CBA to work out that they will pay less than in the current system
How about an in depth analysis?
11.Knowing what it knows about the cuts that are to come, the Committee suggests that £6,000 in fees will be the amount that will allow universities to maintain funding levels equivalent to today's (actually £6,000 would be less than today's level of funding according to the Committee, but in an alarming return to the language of the 1990s it speaks of “efficiency” reductions to justify a figure of £6,000. These “efficiencies” are likely in reality to mean worse student:staff ratios – England already has one of the worst in the OECD area – or fewer books in the library). Many universities may feel that they will be unable to charge fees even at that level, and many will charge less. They may find ways of maintaining quality while being more “efficient” but in that case similar “efficiencies” should be required of others. Most likely, their quality will suffer. They may be able to attract students because of their price. As likely is that they will enter a spiral of decline. We cannot know, nor does anybody else. No market research underpins the report, and so a substantial risk is being taken.
Much of the initial response to the Browne Report seems to have missed the point. Its proposals have been discussed almost entirely in terms of ‘a rise in fees’. Analysis has largely concentrated on the amount graduates might pay and on which social groups may gain or lose by comparison with the present system. In other words, the discussion has focused narrowly on the potential financial implications for the individual student, and here it should be recognised that some of the details of Browne’s proposed system of graduate contributions to the cost of fees are, if his premises are granted, an improvement on the present patchwork arrangements.But the report proposes a far, far more fundamental change to the way universities are financed than is suggested by this concentration on income thresholds and repayment rates. Essentially, Browne is contending that we should no longer think of higher education as the provision of a public good, articulated through educational judgment and largely financed by public funds (in recent years supplemented by a relatively small fee element). Instead, we should think of it as a lightly regulated market in which consumer demand, in the form of student choice, is sovereign in determining what is offered by service providers (i.e. universities). The single most radical recommendation in the report, by quite a long way, is the almost complete withdrawal of the present annual block grant that government makes to universities to underwrite their teaching, currently around £3.9 billion. This is more than simply a ‘cut’, even a draconian one: it signals a redefinition of higher education and the retreat of the state from financial responsibility for it.
My emphasis just for you Big_n_daft
ernie_lynch - surely you are Dave Spart ?
and I claim my £5 
and anyway too many students these days - back in my day only 2% of the year group went to Huniversity and now I believe it's something like 97%....etc etc.....
The universities fund themselves. They don't need extra money. Like I said, my uni generates £7.50 for every £1 the government puts in. The rise in fees just isn't necessary and builds massive debts (with interest payable to the government...) and will stop kids from low income families (the people who wouldn't vote Tory...) going.
I'd agree with the sentiment that students haven't been as motivated as this for years- I think the last time I felt the need to protest was nearly 8 years ago for the Iraq war. I think that was the last time anyone I know went to a protest. The Labour government, on the whole, provided little to protest against. There were some questionable things but most of it was OK. I'd not say I was a labourite but they did good.
Now however sweeping changes that claim to be about "spending cuts" but are really unjustifiable Tory policy that wouldn't even go near parliament under normal circumstances. And all of a sudden people feel the need to protest because what is happening is wrong.
Andy- I've been working in a school recently and only 3 out of 25 students want to go. However, that's a specialist subject. In other classes that's much lower.
Education is not a commercial industry. It is a necessity for both the country and for young people.
Also, a lot of you have a very unpleasant stereotype of students. This image of a young person drinking posh coffee, loafing around and aiming to have a kid called "Tarquin" is straight up wrong. The majority are hard working, have chosen their subject because it will be useful (while some things like Art History may not seem useful, a society with culture is a good thing to live in- so long's it remains a minority subject) and want to make themselves more employable in a specialist field, or even just be smarter. This is NOT a bad thing.
Admittedly many are in there to kill a few years. Obviously this is the sort of thing that needs to stop- it's simple enough to just increase the grades needed to get in and sort this chaff from the wheat. Having to work harder to get into uni will stop this, NOT higher fees.
Obviously this is the sort of thing that needs to stop- it's simple enough to just increase the grades needed to get in and sort this chaff from the wheat. Having to work harder to get into uni will stop this, NOT higher fees
Won't this just increase the inequality ? Surely it's harder to obtain good grades at state schools than fee paying schools ?
Zulu mocked:
Just walking innocently down the street were you?
Actually yes, on a demo, but defo innocent.
Trailmonkey- those that want it will get it. That's not so much an equality thing, a smart kid is still a smart kid whichever school they go to.
Ooh! I've got an idea!!
How about, right; all those who think students should pay big fat fees, speshly those who went to uni before fees were introduced, as well as all Tory politicians past and present who are still alive, and all Tory Party and LimpDem supporters, members and politicians, pay the maximum that fees would cost were they to go to uni after such fee rises? You know, to show how they personally support the policies of their parties and politicians? You know, all those who benefitted from free university education themselves yet think it's ok to introduce fees for others?
Would raise a few quid, eh?
I assume he likes of Stoner, Flashy, Z-11 and the other Tory Boys on here will be all voluntarily paying the £9000+ per year for their time at uni, as a protest against the current student protests. Y'know; kind of putting their money where their mouths are....
Anyone?
That is brilliant.
Not as good as someone kicking in the wheels of a Brompton.
Admittedly many are in there to kill a few years. Obviously this is the sort of thing that needs to stop- it's simple enough to just increase the grades needed to get in and sort this chaff from the wheat. Having to work harder to get into uni will stop this, NOT higher fees.
not even the current government would suggest reducing the availability of university education from it's current high. You may argue that the fee's issue will do that for them but it is more likely going to thin out the current over demand (due in part to gap year students rushing to avoid fees). Popular courses will always remain popular.
Surely it's harder to obtain good grades at state schools than fee paying schools ?
I think the issue is complex, I would use the phrase "less likely" as this is statistically correct
I also think the goverment is missing a trick. What they should do is offer to discharge the proposed student debt in return for entering certain parts of the public sector
ie:
getting 1st class honours science graduates into teaching for 10 years
frontline social workers
armed service membership for 5-10 years
etc etc
industry could also use it as "golden handcuffs" to help retain young talent
Elfinsafety - Member
Ooh! I've got an idea!!How about, right; all those who think students should pay big fat fees, speshly those who went to uni before fees were introduced, as well as all Tory politicians past and present who are still alive, and all Tory Party and LimpDem supporters, members and politicians, pay the maximum that fees would cost were they to go to uni after such fee rises? You know, to show how they personally support the policies of their parties and politicians? You know, all those who benefitted from free university education themselves yet think it's ok to introduce fees for others?
Great idea. Since I didn't go to University at all, can I get some of that money back for the years I spent working and paying tax and not grumbling about how poor I was and still not being able to afford holidays abroad??
My word there are some morons on here. Deary me. 
So I just googled 'student agent provocateur' and all I got was links to internet forums talking about student protests.
*wonders off to searh for 'college girls gone wild'*
I still stand by my opinion that it was the Baby blue hat emasculating the copper, making him compensate with more aggression. If he had his big bad riot gear hat on he'd have been a pussy.
It's all about the hat.
*wonders off to searh for 'college girls gone wild'*
Isn't this pretty much what this whole thread was about?
Great idea. Since I didn't go to University at all, can I get some of that money back for the years I spent working and paying tax and not grumbling about how poor I was and still not being able to afford holidays abroad??
I'm afraid not, Onion; sorry. T'only applies to people what have bin to uniservity.
Mind you, had you bin to uni, maybe you would've had the opportunity to exploit foreign students in order to get very cheap holidays abroad...
Funny how none of the anti-democracy lot (Z-11, Flashy, Stoner etc) have come on to express their support for my Brilliant Idea™. I really would've thought they'd be well up for it.
My word there are some morons on here. Deary me.
Sorry Grumm. 
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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