Should have ordered it from Canyon

Those saying “say you never received it” surely canyon send their bikes via some sort of recorded delivery?
Contact them say you’ll only pay the original price as it’s their issue that they didn’t take the money at the time and any change in the exchange rate isn’t your issue. If you can’t afford to pay it now I’d suggest put it on a credit card (or take out a new one) and transfer the balance to one of the 0% balance transfer cards.

IMO they can’t reasonably expect you to pay the Euro price if the exchange rate has subsequently moved in their favour.

It didn’t move in favour of Canyon, it moved away from the OP as I’d imagine the euro value for Canyon is fixed. We sell in Euros to people and our revenue doesn’t change when GBP goes up or down, just the customer pays more or less in their terms rather than ours.

There’s a lot of talk of moral obligation here, but surely that applies to Canyon too?

For most of us a bike is a big purchase. It’s something we save for and we pull the trigger only when circumstances allow for it.

OK, the OP must have been feeling flush enough not to have noticed the money never left his account, but circumstances change. A year down the line you may not have a job. You may have a child. A new home. Car repairs. A sick pet… Even with the best of intentions it is not always possible to keep hold of the money for that length of time. It could also be the case that even small monthly instalments push you into real financial difficulty.

I would suggest in these circumstances, since it was their mistake, Canyon have a moral obligation not to be dicks too.

They should at least offer some kind of gesture of goodwill.

It didn’t move in favour of Canyon, it moved away from the OP as I’d imagine the euro value for Canyon is fixed. We sell in Euros to people and our revenue doesn’t change when GBP goes up or down, just the customer pays more or less in their terms rather than ours.

That’s technically correct, but do you really disagree with me?

ignore that Chakaping..here it is

Lovely 🙂

Genuinely surprised at the number of people that think Canyon are entirely responsible for the OP being unable to manage his finances*

Fortunately I don’t sell anything on here so I don’t need to make a note of all the people who are actually saying he in entitled to just keep it!

Si

*and that’s being generous. I simply don’t believe he didn’t notice he still had the money in his account.

I’ve had an email apologising for the last emails and that they were an error, they haven’t actually authorised any payment and the bank confirmed that.

That’s technically correct, but do you really disagree with me?

Actually yes I do because you suggested Canyon were making more on the transaction. In fact they’re making the same as before, it’s the OP who is facing a different sum (assuming he was quoted in Euros and a GBP conversion as our customers are). I know it’s STW but I wouldn’t have posted saying you were wrong if I agreed with you 🙂

Have to say, if it was me I’d be paying them- but I’d be paying them what it should have cost me back then, not today’s brexit-shagged pound equivalent.

(well, if it was me I’d have noticed I hadn’t paid, and sorted it out. But that aside)

And if I was them, I wouldn’t have just sent out a random invoice as if it were business as usual.

Those saying “say you never received it” surely canyon send their bikes via some sort of recorded delivery?

Very much this – can’t think of any retailer (including bike companies) who’d send something of any significant value, let alone a couple of grand, without tracked delivery.

ok i thought id paid it last january as i gave them card details and they shipped it to me

Does that translate roughly as ‘ordered a bike from canyon and the clowns forgot to invoice me, thought I’d got away with it until those crazy kids in IT worked out how to fix the invoicing system’

All of STW’s lurking might and not one bloody person that specialises in consumer law.

Well, not one daft enough to get involved that is.

Those saying “say you never received it” surely canyon send their bikes via some sort of recorded delivery?

i guess you missed the sarcasm in that comment 😉

Should have ordered it from Canyon

😆

Actually yes I do because you suggested Canyon were making more on the transaction. In fact they’re making the same as before, it’s the OP who is facing a different sum (assuming he was quoted in Euros and a GBP conversion as our customers are).

So you think Canyon should hold him to the original price in Euros?

Harsh.

Perhaps he should offer to pay the amount owing the next time the exchange rate is what it was when he ordered the bike , that way nobody wins . 😀

So you think Canyon should hold him to the original price in Euros?

Why should they cut their price because the exchange rate has moved? If you were a European supplier would you be offering to make less money by discounting sales to the UK?

Ianal but I’d be offering to pay the amount in sterling when my payment details were provided, although I suspect it really ought to be euros if that’s what was agreed (the OP had the opportunity to chase up timeous payment had he genuinely wished to do so).

The contract was clearly agreed so this is just a case of late invoicing/delayed payment (being made or taken). I don’t know the strict legal position but common sense says this is more a customer service issue rather than a legal one. Maybe ask for a free pink helmet and some energy bars?

So you think Canyon should hold him to the original price in Euros?

Harsh.
What? That was the original agreement, as made voluntarily by OP. The price is the price – in Euros. I suppose if the exchange rate had gone in his favour you’d be recommending he pay more? 😆

Mister P – Member

Why should they cut their price because the exchange rate has moved?

Because the delay and therefore the exchange rate change is their fault. It’s not reasonable to expect a customer to pay the price of your mistake- even if there’s no agreed rate, the customer is making their buying decision based on current rates.

therefore the exchange rate change is their fault

lol, Canyon control international currency markets now?!

Yes, obviously that’s what I meant.

gonzy – Member
Those saying “say you never received it” surely canyon send their bikes via some sort of recorded delivery?
i guess you missed the sarcasm in that comment

It was russl comment and you seemed to suggest that was an option. I didn’t get any hint of sarcasm. Can’t believe I didn’t pick up on it 🙂

russl – Member
Play your cards right and you could get a free bike out of this, first thing is to contact your bank/card company and get them to block any payments to Canyon, I’ve got no morals when it comes to big companies, stuff em, to send you a bill a year later is a shambles. Tell them you never received the bike and didn’t chase it because they didn’t take the money. Good luck.

the way i see it OP ha a number of options:
a) contact canyon and tell them that the person they are looking for no longer lives at that address
b) tell them he never received a bike from them and seeing as no money was taken he never chased it up with them (as previously mentioned)

The exchange rate is out of Canyon’s and the buyers control, but the OP ordered the bike when it cost £xxxx and because Canyon forgot to take the money the change in exchange rates means that it’s going to cost the OP more. He could clearly argue that he might not have purchased the bike had it cost that much last year.

Canyon sell their bikes in local currency, so the contract will have been for £XXX not XXXEuros. Any price change to the sales price of the bike (whether in Euros or not, whether down to Brexit or not) is irrelevant – the original contract was agreed at a price (which the OP will have a copy of the email confirmation).

When I posted bits of my contract earlier, specifically retention of title, I was asked if this was a finance contract. No, this was a straightforward credit card single payment contract, those were the terms of the documentation that came with it.

As far as retention of title is concerned, that doesn’t entitle the OP to use the bike, reduce its value in the meanwhile and then simply return it when he finds he hasn’t paid. It means that until they had payment, it remains theirs. And therefore anyone using it and damaging it in any way would be liable to Canyon for the cost of that damage.

That’s all legal stuff. The important bits though are in the customer service angles which the OP needs to be getting Canyon onto – they should be showing their customer service by understanding that this is their cockup (not his) and at the very least (despite their contractual rights) agreeing to phased payments, and hopefully a small discount for the inconvenience.

Where it may get complicated is if the OP did in fact properly cancel his order and they sent it anyway. In court, a judge would find it hard to believe that the OP genuinely thought this was some gift from Canyon for being a nice guy, and therefore any absence in making the unexpected delivery known to Canyon would make him look like he was trying to pull a fast one.

Bottom line – he ordered a bike from Canyon. It came. He gave them payment details. They made a mistake in not processing it which they are now trying to rectify. He’s entitled to get upset, but beyond that he has to rely on good customer service from Canyon. They are entitled to their money, but only to the value originally contracted and would struggle to make a small claims action stick if they don’t at least give him some time to make the payments beyond “10 days from now”.

[Seems to be a misapprehension here that you pay in Euros for a Canyon bike. I certainly paid in sterling on my credit card. I wanted to pay in Euros as the price for my bike was cheaper, but they didn’t facilitate that]

Why should they cut their price because the exchange rate has moved?

Because they ballsed up.

If they are taking payment in GBP at the price originally set and agreed, they are taking a hit on the exchange rate in any event.

Not that I feel sorry for them, that’s their fault for failing to take the money at the right time.

Forex rates are a complete distraction in this thread. The original invoice was most likely in GBP, it needs settling in GBP at the amount originally invoiced (or less, if Canyon will accept less).

Have to say, if it was me I’d be paying them- but I’d be paying them what it should have cost me back then, not today’s brexit-shagged pound equivalent.

Precisely – that was the amount agreed between Canyon and the OP.

THE INVOICE WAS PROBABLY IN POUNDS BACK THEN AND NOW – STOP TALKING ABOUT EUROS!!!!!!!

[Sorry for shouting, I feel my point has been missed!]

THE INVOICE WAS PROBABLY IN POUNDS BACK THEN AND NOW – STOP TALKING ABOUT EUROS!!!!!!!

[Sorry for shouting, I feel my point has been missed!]

Yes, but they’re asking for more £ now than they were at the beginning, which is when the OP and Canyon entered into the contract.

but beyond that he has to rely on good customer service from Canyon

No hope then 😀

Yes, that’s what the OP said. But I think everyone here is leaping to a conclusion that that is Canyon trying to factor in exchange rates.

The OP didn’t say “And they’re adding a Euros surcharge” or anything to that effect. It seems to me the most likely thing is he bought a bike that was priced say £3299 in 2016 and the same bike now sells for £3499 and they are trying to charge him the higher amount.

Again, most likely just a cockup with their system being unable to generate a payment request for an amount lower than the current sales value.

They have no right at all to demand more money than the original contract was for, that bit I agree with.

If he had arranged to pay in Euros, I would have sympathy with an argument that his exchange rate penalty for the delayed payment should be a negotiating point with Canyon, but as that situation doesn’t seem to have arisen, its irrelevant.

I did take your point larkim, but we’re already entrenched in a completely irrelevant debate and we’re not stopping just because some smartarse has come along with the facts!

😉

Where’s the sodding OP gone anyway?

Canyon sell in the UK in £ so forex risk is theirs, which is why we all got pissy a couple of years back when the euro dropped and the UK pricings didn’t to the point that it was cheaper to drive to their outlet store in Germany and buy in Euros for anything north of £2k.

They have dropped a major bollock in shipping before payment cleared and made it worse by not realising until now. I’d be paying but I’d be pushing them to do a staged payment over a few months.

Interesting. In the real world, we have penalty clauses in place for late invoicing. Certainly if we billed after 12 months we’d be lucky to get anything back from a client except the contract.
I guess no such agreement exists here, but I’d be checking their T’s and C’s for a start.
I certainly would not be paying a revised price. That cock up is firmly in their court.

LOL @ chakaping – agreed!

@fourbanger – penalty clauses are usually for late payment rather than late invoicing. But agree that if you delay your bill you are very likely to be on the wrong end of a customer at least trying to avoid paying or taking their business elsewhere because you’ve acted like a numpty!

@larkim I can assure you it was for late invoicing.

Is there an alert that you can set up to advise when the OP comes back to update?…..I think he was last involved on page 1 😀

@fourbanger – I’m interested in that then. Usually a contract is drafted by the company selling an item / service, so to write in something which penalises yourself is unusual. I presume the other party insisted on it for some reason. Its definitely unusual though to do it that way around as the ultimate penalty is being paid by the vendor anyway – they are not getting paid!

Is there an alert that you can set up to advise when the OP comes back to update?…..I think he was last involved on page 1

maybe he’s done a Reggie Perrin to avoid paying 😆