how do u do it? who do i ask?
Bike Forum
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being a guide in the alps?????????
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Posted 2 years ago #
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There's this website called google...
Kids these days!
Posted 2 years ago # -
google???? i thought that was only for porn?
Posted 2 years ago # -
how do u do it? who do i ask?
Wow, if I had a dollar.......
The way I got in to it was with a bit of initiative and a lot of hard work. Look in the back of the magazines, google holiday companies, send lots of grovelling, complimentary, well informed yet light-hearted emails.
Find out what companies in the various areas require. You'd be surprised as to how much it differs due to local authorities and their attitude towards bike guides etc. In some resorts they are very laissez faire about the whole thing and in others you will most certainly go to jail if caught guiding whilst not amply qualified. Steve from The White Room is a good authority on the subject and one of very few Brits to have gone through the french instructor system (I don't know him personally but have read a lot of his posts on here on the subject).
A good place to start with is the SMBLA and their various levels of guide/coaching qualifications. I did mine with Cyclewise up in the Lakes, it was great and I learnt a lot, i'm still learning three years later in fact.
Once qualified, you also need to find a job, which is not as easy as it sounds (especially in the current economic climate). I was fortunate enough to stumble upon a brilliant company with awesome owners, with incredible riding which suited me down to the ground and who just so happened to need a guide. Not everyone can be lucky enough to work for Bike Village though
Now's the time to get busy, good luck
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cheers Rob! You out here at the moment or back in the UK?
I've actually not gone through the French system, but there is a British system which the French have granted "equivalence" - i.e. it's equivalent to their own system. To get it, you need to be both an SMBL (Scottish Mountain Bike Leader, see http://www.scottishcycling.com) and an IML (International Mountain Leader, see http://www.mltuk.org). Getting both of these will take a minimum of around 2 years (longer if you're not already pretty experienced) and cost about £4,500.
The short answer is that if you don't have both of these qualifications, it's illegal for you to guide in France (and also in Switzerland and most of the mountainy bits of Italy). I've got no idea about Austria (they're not part of UIMLA, the Union of International Mountain Leader Associations), I think in theory you'd also be on shaky ground in Spain.
The long answer is that there's a lot of people (and a lot of big-name companies) who quite openly guide without being qualified to this level. I don't want to be too critical about it, because I've been there and done that! For me, it was way too much of a worry hanging over my head that this could happen to me at any time: Getting arrested on the trails!
There are also some pretty important insurance issues. British Cycling will insure Mountain Bike Leaders to work throughout Europe, but will the underwriters really pay up if you get sued and you can be proven to be working illegally? If your clients have "guided trips only" type insurance (very common for off-piste skiing and I've seen a few similar mountain-bike insurance policies) are you making their insurance invalid?
I'm curious as to what people going on MTB holidays make of the situation. Do you check your guide is properly qualified? Does it bother you if they're not?
My own thoughts are that the situation is pretty unsatisfactory. The SMBL is a good course, as Rob says, and I learned a lot from mine too. That said, it's pretty light-weight compared to most other outdoor qualifications and it's not unreasonable for the French (and the rest) not to grant it equivalance IMO. The IML is a fantastic course and I learned a whole lot about being in the mountains and looking after people, but at the end of the day it's a walking leader's course, not a bike one - lots of relevant crossover stuff though. I'd like to see a British MTB instructor/guide qualification which included both a lot of bike technique and coaching plus sufficient Mountain Leader type skills - something similar to the ski instructor system. Part of the problem with getting international recognition for British qualifications is that it's not a legal requirement to be qualified to work in the outdoors in the UK, hence some of the courses are pretty flimsy as people wouldn't bother doing them at all if they took more effort.
Now, with all of that off my chest, we're actually looking for another guide for this summer if anyone fancies it! (looking for some chalet staff too).
Posted 2 years ago # -
We've been with Trail Addiction and to be honest I've no idea whether they are qualified or not, but then I had world-wide all-encompassing medical cover from work - so probably not relevent.
IMO MTBing is dangerous, and I try
to ride to my limits, guided or not.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi Steve - congratulations on the whole 'being legal' thing!
What's the deal with Iona's 'aspirant' IML status? Does "supervised" mean that you need to actually supervise her whilst riding? or is it more like the trainee ski instructor (or MCF instructor) status where you are allowed to go out and lead a group on your own because your boss is qualified.
I don't have the IML myself, but I guess there's a lot more 'aspirant' IML people about who could work in France under a fully qualified IML. And how does that work with gaining 'equivalence'? What qualifications will you be asking for for this guide you're after?
My feelings about the whole guiding situation are that the bar is set too high here in France, and too low in the UK. With the MBL I'm qualified to take a group of inexperienced riders across the wilds of Scotland and all the dangers that that entails, but I can't get paid to show someone the route to Les Gets from Morzine.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi Steve.
Have sent you an email re. the summer chalets job.
Ed
Posted 2 years ago # -
Christ, £4500 to be able to guide in France. That's 5 years salary for a typical guide! I'm glad the Canadians weren't so anal.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Christ, £4500 to be able to guide in France. That's 5 years salary for a typical guide! I'm glad the Canadians weren't so anal.
On the flipide, if I am going to pay quite a lot for a weeks guiding I would like to know that the Guide has a valid (and useful) first aid qualification, understands the needs of people, can get me out of situations that the mountain may throw at us, preferably not get us into them in the first place etc. not saying you need to spend £4500 to get that but there needs to be some qualification system to separate the well meaning amateurs from those who actually have the full depth of knowledge & experience to guide professionally
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have been guiding out in Austria for the past few years and things are a little different than the UIMLA region, like Steve mentioned.
I have my SMBLA from the UK, which covers me to work for an insured company if my boss has the local OBV qualification (the Osterreicher bergfuhrer verein rad-technic qualifikation). However, that would limit me to being within 1 hour of 'civilisation' (a town), not doing over night hut trips and not going over 3000m in altitude (which is very limiting when you want to explore the mountains!), so I have now gone for the OBV as well. Its a pretty tough test, much much more worthwhile than the SMBLA. It involves navigation, first aid, biomechanics, mechanics, trail maintenance, 'diplomacy' (the course is worth doing just for this section, how tell tell someone they need to improve in polite terms in Austrian-German!), as well as general guiding tips too. You also need a reasonable amount of fitness and skill yourself; as you must complete a very technical (as is the most technical you will ever ride!) loop within 1 minute of the Examiners time.
The course is entirely run in German, however they were very helpful when there were things I didnt quite understand.
No honest company is going to employ someone who isnt fully qualified, as insurance etc all goes out the window (like Steve said). I do wish that people booking the holidays were more in tune with who offer what in terms of skill level and experience, as I'm sure it makes a huge difference to the holiday in the end. Maybe if you just need someone to show you how to get from the top of the Gondola to the bottom again, then it isnt so neccessary, but for actual guided tours and backcountry riding, unqualified staff is almost fraudulent!
Anyway, good luck getting a job this summer!
Posted 2 years ago # -
You don't need the IML or the SMBL to guide in Switzerland, it's good to have a high mountain first aid certificate and common sense.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Christ, £4500 to be able to guide in France. That's 5 years salary for a typical guide! I'm glad the Canadians weren't so anal.
The other flip-side is that Canadian guides, ski-instructors, etc. get paid SFA, because it's so easy to get qualified and hence there is a glut of people. In France, you can make a good living from guiding.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Guy:
As I understand it, an "Aspirant" can work independently in summer, but not in winter. Trying to get some more info out of the SNAM at the moment, but it's like pulling teeth!
I sent off all the documentation to join SNAM as an Aspirant myself weeks ago, but haven't heard anything yet. It looks like I'll be joining as a full IML before they ever give me Aspirant status! In theory, it should be possible and you should be able to get Aspirant insurance through SNAM. For our 3rd guide, ideally we want someone fully-qualified, but an Aspirant would probably work. Might end up getting someone French in, always a good move politically...
Drop me an email if you want more info - IML isn't THAT hard to get! Sure you've probably already talked to Gareth about it.
Totally agree with you on where the bar is set BTW. SMBL is far too easy. IML & MCF are both very good but have too much content unrelated to mountain biking.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You don't need the IML or the SMBL to guide in Switzerland, it's good to have a high mountain first aid certificate and common sense.
I'd be surprised if that's true, given that Switzerland is a member of UIMLA and also has their own Bike Guide qualification.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've just landed a job for the summer with a decent sized company in Munich (ULPbike). Before i can start I have to attend two ausbildung (training) sessions. It is overseen by the DIMB (Deutsche Initiative Mountainbike Bund (Group)) which is the equivalent to the OBV in Austria. Once i have this qualification I am allowed to guide in all countries boardering or within the Alps. It follows - i'm led to believe - very similar structure to other programs in place in other European countries.
The first session gives me the 'Trailscout' qualification and, although basic, is a necessary part of the MTB guide qualification.
it includes:
* zielgruppengerechte, natur- und sozialverträgliche MTB-Routen auswählen und den Teilnehmern in ansprechender Weise anzubieten
choosing trails for the target group that are naturaly and sociably responsible* MTB-Gruppen in vertrautem Gebiet oder auf Touren mit bekannten Routen
guiding MTB groups in familiar areas or on known trails* kundenorientiert und sicher zu führen,
lead customer orientated and safe rides* dabei Notfälle zu vermeiden bzw. sich in Notfällen richtig zu verhalten
to avoid and deal with emergencies* die Fahrtechnik-Grundlagen sicher anzuwenden
safely apply the basics of riding techniqueThe second weekend is more involving and enables you/me to guide groups through/across/around the Alps on my own and upon completion I will be/you are a MTB Guide.
* Vorbereitung und Durchführung von natur- und sozialverträglichen Touren
Preparation and implementation of naturally and socialably responsible tours* Führungstechniken, floworientiertes Guiding
guiding techniques and flow-orientated guiding* Kartenkunde und Orientierung im Gelände
map reading/usage and orientiering in area/terrain* GPS - Grundlagen und Anwendungspraxis
GPS - basics and usage* Gruppendynamik und Deeskalationstechniken
group dynamics and de-escalation techniques (simialr to what Kitz-Chris mentioned)[/b]* Notfallmanagement
emergency management* Vermitteln von Fahrtechnikgrundlagen (Didaktik und Methodik)
conveyance of basic riding technique (didatics and methodic teaching)* Wetterkunde
weather awareness* Bike-Technik, Set-up und Pannenhilfe
knowing your way around a bike, bike set-up and trail-side repairs* Grundzüge der Trainingslehre bis hin zum Erstellen von Trainingsplänen
main features of the training doctrine upto creation of training plans. (this isn't part of what i need to know (yet) and as such isn't always part of the programme)* Vermittlungskonzepte, um sein Wissen effektiv weiter zu geben
teaching approaches in order to convey your knowledge more effectivelyI got the job after simply writing an email in response to an advert seen at bikejobs.de. I met the main guy last week and he said my 'bewerbung' (application) stood out and he liked the fact that I am already a teacher so shouldn't have trouble a problem dealing with/talking to groups. Also being bi-lingual is a big advantage, he said.
I'll be on tour for 7-8 days and then on my week 'off' driving the bus across the Alps to pick up bags and/or other tours who have finished theirs. Money works out at around 500-600€/week when guiding with no expenses incured (i.e. all food, drink and lodging paid for). The driving job pays a little less, but again my costs are covered.
I also get to put all bikey purchases against my tax return..... XTR here I come! not. XT, perhaps.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Be surprised, it's true
Posted 2 years ago # -
cupid stunt - Member
Be surprised, it's true
???? what is true?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Alpin, look at stevomc's comment above.
Posted 2 years ago # -
ok, i was firstly thrown by your comment as it makes no sense given there is no context to which you refered.
if you mean being able to guide with the German qualification then, as far as i am led to believe, the answer is that you can. i've spoken to the DIMB (before applying for the job) as i was concerned it was only for Germany. they told me otherwise.
i also don't think that the firm would risk its reputation by sending people out without the necessaries.... this is Germany, remember!
Posted 2 years ago # -
You have to be French and have completed all the French Safety/Qualification courses and speak French and possibly be French or have a French mother............
Remember 3/4 years back when all the none French guides were prosecuted for endangering life or something!
Posted 2 years ago # -
With the OBV qualification I can't work in any of the UIMLA countries, but that still leaves a lot of big mountains to play in!
Posted 2 years ago # -
if you mean being able to guide with the German qualification then, as far as i am led to believe, the answer is that you can. i've spoken to the DIMB (before applying for the job) as i was concerned it was only for Germany. they told me otherwise.
From what you've described of the course above, I'd be amazed if the French accept it, but could well be OK elsewhere (the French are notoriously fussy).
In essence, the German course you're doing sounds very similar in length and content to the SMBLA.
Posted 2 years ago # -
With the OBV qualification I can't work in any of the UIMLA countries, but that still leaves a lot of big mountains to play in!
Austria are in talks about joining UIMLA - they were involved at UIMLA's inception, then got out, now want back in apparently. Don't really know the details.
Can't imagine that would make any difference to your status in Austria though if you already held a nationally recognised qualification.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You have to be French and have completed all the French Safety/Qualification courses and speak French and possibly be French or have a French mother............
Have you read any of this thread?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would therefore definitely recommend Onza Porcupines for forest riding in Michigan.
Posted 2 years ago # -
stevomcd - Member
The other flip-side is that Canadian guides, ski-instructors, etc. get paid SFA, because it's so easy to get qualified and hence there is a glut of people. In France, you can make a good living from guiding.
That's good to know. There's no incentive for someone going to BC to guide to become more qualified when you hardly get paid enough to live. To be fair, the SMBLA course I did was fine for the terrain covered (with the exception of skill level, but I was already clued up there), but the first aid practical side of things left a lot to be desired. I don't think we even got tested.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Doesnt the SMBLA require you to be qualified for first aid seperately?
Before I started workign properly I considdered applying for jobs doing admin/mechanics/cooking.
I can wheild a spanner at a bike blindfold, and haven't eaten a ready meal (sober, drunk pizza doesnt count) since 2004 or opened a jar of sauce since 2005, but I'm the least organised person on the planet so hope 2oo3 would be OK :p
Redundancies going on at the moment, anyone want to employ me? Somewhere sunny with good riding for the days off would be nice. Matching my current sallary optional!
Posted 2 years ago # -
thisisnotaspoon - Member
Doesnt the SMBLA require you to be qualified for first aid seperately?Yes, this is what I meant although I did wonder if I was clear or not. Or at least in 2007 I had to arrange REC First Aid separate to the SMBLA course. I was really nervous about the first aid course, but as it happens I could have slept through it all....
Posted 2 years ago #
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