Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 40 total)
  • Antenna is a "software problem" say Apple
  • GrahamS
    Full Member

    I thought folk might like to know that Apple are claiming the dropped bars issue is really just a software problem caused by the way they calculate the number of bars to display.

    "Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength. For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don't know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars."
    — Apple email

    So, according to Apple, touching the antenna does lose a bit of signal, but nowhere near as dramatically as it appears by the bars.

    iPhone Therefore I Blog has the full transcript of the Apple email, as well as video of an iPhone 4 dropping all of its bars with no discernible difference in the call quality.

    I know joe suggested this might be the case, what say other folks here?
    Apple smokescreen or genuine reason?

    samuri
    Free Member

    software problems can be fixed by an update, hardware recalls are expensive.
    Standard practise as far as I'm concerned. I bet they hope an update makes the problem relax enough to not need to recall devices.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Does this mean all the trouble with the new OS is a hardware fault?

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    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Yep, that was my thought.

    Jobs, in his lair, screaming angrily at an engineer: "WELL JUST MAKE IT DISPLAY FIVE F**KING BARS ALL THE F**KING TIME THEN!!"

    New "formula":

    if (signal >= 1)
        displayFiveKinBars()
    else
        displayNoBars()

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Does this mean all the trouble with the new OS is a hardware fault?

    To my mind, the hardware has a definite "issue" where the antenna can be bridged and that lowers the signal.
    How much of an issue that actually is probably depends on who you believe and what blogs/news you read.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    I believe they're royally ballsed up but haven't got the stones to deal with it.

    samuri
    Free Member

    Perhaps the update will simply boost the wireless power.
    Yeah, it'll fry a few heads and cut battery life but that's collateral damage for you.

    donsimon
    Free Member

    I believe they're royally ballsed up but haven't got the stones to deal with it.

    I agree, the BBC News story just seemed odd. It's not that touching the chassis weakens the signal, no, the signal wasn't there in the firstplace. And no-one else suffered from weak signals, or am I missing something?

    ooOOoo
    Free Member

    It may fix the bars, but would it fix this?
    data prob

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    I believe they're royally ballsed up but haven't got the stones to deal with it.

    From the folk I've talked to who have one and that can't reproduce "the issue" at all, I'd say it is far less of a problem than people are making out.

    I suspect that everyone is so desperate for Apple to fail that they are jumping all over a fairly minor cock up and generally reporting it as "if you touch an iPhone with bare flesh while making a call then you immediately lose all signal, the call is dropped, your hand catches fire and your dog gets AIDS." when the reality is slightly more mundane.

    grievoustim
    Free Member

    they have also said they will give a full refund to anyone who is still not happy after the software upgrade – can't really say fairer than that

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Perhaps the update will simply boost the wireless power.

    It would have to go through FCC certification again if it did.

    I agree, the BBC News story just seemed odd. It's not that touching the chassis weakens the signal, no, the signal wasn't there in the firstplace. And no-one else suffered from weak signals, or am I missing something?

    That's not exactly what Apple are saying.

    Apple are claiming that there is a drop in signal, (i.e. they confirm that touching the chasis at the magic point does weaken the signal) but they say it is really a pretty minor drop and it only looks major because the bars currently show full signal when actually it is quite a poor signal which even a minor drop will drastically affect.

    After the update we should see a scenario more like: a phone with only 1 bar of signal can lose that signal entirely if you squeeze the antenna at the bottom left corner.

    retro83
    Free Member

    if (signal >= 1)
    displayFiveKinBars()
    else
    displayNoBars()

    😆

    I've seen a video showing 17db attenuation of the signal between holding the phone in and out of a cover, so regardless of their software issues there is a bit of a problem with the design. I wonder why they didn't put a non-conductive coating on the aerial which I gather would prevent the issue entirely.

    I think MacRumors will go into meltdown over this.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    I've seen a video showing 17db attenuation of the signal between holding the phone in and out of a cover, so regardless of their software issues there is a bit of a problem with the design. I wonder why they didn't put a non-conductive coating on the aerial which I gather would prevent the issue entirely.

    Oddly you used to be able to show signal strength in db by dialing *3001#12345#* to put it into field test mode. Damningly they removed this feature in iOS 4.

    Agree with the non-conductive coating too.
    I suspect this is the real issue and may be why some folk don't see the problem and some do (i.e. maybe a coating was specced but some of the initial wave went out without it).

    samuri
    Free Member

    It would have to go through FCC certification again if it did.

    Not sure on this. I would expect the hardware cannot exceed Part 15 regulations but the phones probably go through a fine tuning process prior to release to achieve a good battery life/signal compromise.

    ooOOoo
    Free Member

    Looks like screwing the lower antenna on is a final assembly step. It would be cheaper to not have another process after that.

    retro83
    Free Member

    Oddly you used to be able to show signal strength in db by dialing *3001#12345#* to put it into field test mode. Damningly they removed this feature in iOS 4.

    Indeed, but there is a hack or hidden setting which displays a numeric dB value instead of the bars icon.

    It's applied with an old settings file or something. I can't find it in my history.

    allthepies
    Free Member
    CountZero
    Full Member

    Seeing as how a similar problem affects Android, Nokia, and many other phones, both smart and dumb, due to the fact that that the antenna is in the base of the phone where users grip it. I've not noticed it on any phone, but then I hardly ever make phone calls anyway, and my iPhone4 has a bumper-type case to protect the glass edges and keep the camera and back from being scratched from gritty surfaces.

    enfht
    Free Member

    Make way for the new iPatch

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Seeing as how a similar problem affects
    Android, Nokia, and many other phones, both
    smart and dumb

    Now see that IS Apple smokescreen.

    No other phones that I know of have an exposed metal antenna where the users will touch it.

    And if it was something that always happens then why would putting a bit of rubber or plastic over it prevent it?

    DrJ
    Full Member

    To be honest, I was not able to parse CountZero's posting, but I guess he is referrng to problems like this
    http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/nexus-one-3g-problems-persist-after-update-is-it-a-design-pro/

    Ewan
    Free Member

    I suspect that the misreading of the signal does have something to do with it. My mate has a Iphone4 and I tried everything (in a fairly strong signal area) to make the signal drop by shorting the areas in question – finger, licked finger, bit of foil, car key. Didn't affect the signal display at all.

    I suspect that was is happening is combination of:
    a) shorting the area does drop the signal a bit
    b) apple have coded their signal bars code to lie – i suspect all the manufacturers do otherwise you'd get users taking phones backing saying the signals crap as 'my mates phone had full bars'

    shadthebad
    Free Member

    I did my own unscientific test. Held a 4 and a 3G next to each other, 2 bars showing on each and a dot for data.

    Move grip to "the position" on both phones. After 5 seconds one bar was dropped. Another 5 seconds the other bar was dropped and "No Service". Data signal lost as well.

    No change on the 3G at all. Managed to do the same with another person holding the phones.

    I notice the Americans are starting to take legal action. Coincidentally the same day it's a software fault and can be easliy fixed. hmmm

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Ewan +1.

    shadthebad: you realise that doesn't rule out this explanation?

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Conversely, the wifi performance and range is massively improved over the 3G. I can still get signal at nearly double the range from my router at home.

    Jamie
    Free Member

    CountZero – Member
    Seeing as how a similar problem affects Android, Nokia, and many other phones, both smart and dumb, due to the fact that that the antenna is in the base of the phone where users grip it. I've not noticed it on any phone, but then I hardly ever make phone calls anyway, and my iPhone4 has a bumper-type case to protect the glass edges and keep the camera and back from being scratched from gritty surfaces.

    You know, you don't ALWAYS have to defend Apple. They do drop the ball sometimes.*

    *Ipod/Macbook Pro/Imac/Iphone owner of 8 years.

    shadthebad
    Free Member

    GrahamS: Yeah I do, but it has stopped me from buying one.

    Perhaps the answer is to do as before, only initiate calls to a landline on both phones and see if the call drops on the 4???

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    surely it depends if the phone is dropping a call because it has run out of signal, or just thinks its run out of signal?

    and the proximity sensor problems may be clouding the issue of dropped calls somewhat. I can recreate the problem but in real world use it has made no difference at all.

    MrNutt
    Free Member

    It astonishes me that people *believe* that Apple are godlike in their manufacturing, anyone with any long term macintosh experience will tell you that Mac are great *when* they work, but you are in a whole world of hurt when they fail.

    (typed upon my macbookpro that post eventual and painful FOC logic board fail requiring 3 trips to and from an apple store over 30m away and numerous phone calls now has no back lit keyboard, sicking keys and various other issues).

    everything is shite, just some of it has a higher amount of polish upon it.

    Stoatsbrother
    Free Member

    everything is shite, just some of it has a higher amount of polish upon it.

    I'm going to use that as my sig line on another forum… 😆

    Typing this on an old apple wireless keyboard because the shiny silver one which cam with my iMac has died after 7 months.

    tomzo
    Free Member

    Typing this on an old apple wireless keyboard because the shiny silver one which cam with my iMac has died after 7 months.

    You should be able to get that repalced/repaired under warranty.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Anandtech have a nice in-depth article about the iPhone 4, which includes a full page about the antenna with real-life figures:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

    In summary, cupping the phone tightly across the magic point causes a 24.4dB drop in signal.
    But doing the same to an HTC Nexus One causes a 17.7dB drop.

    So by those figures there is an issue, but perhaps not quite as unique or terrible as some would say.
    He also noted that the overall reception was notably better than previous iPhones.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    So by those figures there is an issue, but perhaps not quite as unique or terrible as some would say.

    But but but … how can we sell newspapers with that sort of headline? "Apple in quite small signal issue" – doesn't have the same ring to it somehow.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    It astonishes me that people *believe* that Apple are godlike in their manufacturing, anyone with any long term macintosh experience will tell you that Mac are great *when* they work, but you are in a whole world of hurt when they fail.

    It's just, in my, admittedly sparse fifteen years experience of working in an environment with both Macs and Wintel machines, the wintel ones ended up going into a skip, while the Macs just kept on going. That's not to say there haven't been some issues over the years, but I don't recall any that required the replacement of an entire machine. Sh1t happens, though, and nothing is perfect. I had a real hastle getting my Mac to see my new iPhone. Turns out it was a shonky update of iTunes 9.2. Uninstalling and downloading a fresh copy resolved the issue. My wifi was playing up at the time, so it was possibly that corrupting the update. Chuffed to bits with the new phone, tho', the camera is excellent, and GPS reception is much improved, Google Maps showed it was in my back garden, when in fact I was sat on the couch indoors! My 3G would show it as being around half a mile away.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    are those anatech numbers a little misleading. dB is not a linear scale….

    MrNutt
    Free Member

    Oh I got one of said devices today, it's not a bug it's a feature

    mastiles_fanylion
    Free Member

    grievoustim – Member
    they have also said they will give a full refund to anyone who is still not happy after the software upgrade – can't really say fairer than that
    POSTED 1 DAY AGO # REPORT-POST

    You could always say PR deflection.

    jond
    Free Member

    >are those anatech numbers a little misleading. dB is not a linear scale….

    Misleading ? – don't think so – if you mean the bar graph, that's just illustrating how many bars correspond to what signal level. It does seem to confirm Apple's claim (damn ! 😉 )- there's only approx 6dB difference between 4 bars and 2 bars.

    matthewjb
    Free Member

    dB is not a linear scale….

    there's only approx 6dB difference between 4 bars and 2 bars.

    Doesn't 6db equate to a signal 4 times stronger?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 40 total)

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