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  • Another RoW model
  • nick3216
    Free Member

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-thought-of-fragile-legged-horses-on-the-offroad-ability-of-hooves

    Inspired by this thread and some of the other threads where MTBers got frankly depressing and right-wing about access rights I’m going to relate my experiences of my local RoW access model. It’s a long one and I apologise now for grammar and spelling errors. I invoke Muphrys Law on any spelling grammar pedants up front. I will probably repeat myself.

    Disclaimer: I ride bikes and horses, used to ride a trail bike. I can’t be arsed to walk anywhere because the scenery changes too slowly and since the dog died I have no compelling reason to bother.

    I have horses stabled in a valley which contains a single bridleway and lots of footpaths. There are lots of bridleways outside the valley on which I ride my bike, and occasionally ride the horse. The bridleway in the valley is OK for horseriding, but for cycling it’s of no interest except as a means to get to other, better (from a biking PoV) bridleways. There are BOATS at each end of the valley, so the bridleway is also popular with trail riders linking them. The trail riders also have a cheeky play spot at the end of the valley on wasteland, but that’s mostly used by local yoof on minibikes. (I live next door to one of the yoof and he’s a nice lad. So I’m not trying to be derogatory with that term, but it is the one that best describes them).

    The bridleway is too narrow for the 4x4s who use the road through the valley instead. The trail riders could use this road too, but a they don’t I’m guessing the bridleway is more fun. I’d have ridden it on my XR250. It’s fun on horseback because it’s open enough to canter and gallop – think DH speeds – and I suspect that when no-one else is around the trail riders enjoy a bit of speed too. As it’s not really fun on a bike I can’t get bothered about hoofprints because I know that I’m only using it to get somewhere more interesting on two wheels.

    Seeing as I’m not the only horse at the stable an arrangement has been reached between the stable owner and the local landowners that all the horse-riders can ride round any headland in the valley, on condition that we each pin a unique identifier to our saddles so that anyone being obviously stupid or riding on the crops can be caught and dealt with. Some of these headlands are shared with the footpaths.

    On a bike Some of these footpaths are more interesting than the bridleway for reaching farther destinations, so I ride them too.

    Most of the walkers in the valley are dog-walkers, not ramblers (I’ll recount a rambler incident later.) There are no livestock in the valley so a dog on a lead is a rarity.

    So there are horses and bicycles and walkers and loose dogs on the footpaths.

    There are horses and bicycles and walkers and loose dogs and trail riders on the bridleways.

    There are no legitimate vehicle rights of way in the valley, but there are at each end.

    Yet it all works smoothly. Reading this forum you’d expect a bloodbath of dog bites and trail rage.

    Here’s a typical day. In the morning my wife and I rode our horses up the bridleway for a gallop. Before we got there we met some trail riders coming the other way. They slowed down and we all passed each other with polite head nods. Then we got onto the bridleway and cantered before meeting a bloke walking his dog, off it’s lead. We slowed to walk. He got hold of his dog. We had a chat in a good-natured way. Then we had a canter and a gallop and finally rode back on the field headlands, basically on a footpath.

    That afternoon I rode my bike round the valley and met more trail riders going to the play spot. Again, no bother. Then I rode a cheeky footpath and encountered at least four dog walkers, with not a single dog on a lead. No-one bothered to get hold of their dog (compare earlier when I was on horseback), but I was never in danger of being bitten and no-one went “ooh he doesn’t like bikes” or “you shouldn’t be here’.

    On the last leg I met a horse being broken to trap (basically someone walking along behind it using long reins) on a footpath at the asme time as there was a dog walker. On the last cheeky footpath I met a woman walking a pony atop which sat a young child. Smiles and polite hello’s.

    So the general atmosphere in the valley is nice and relaxed. There’s been no involvement of officialdom, just informal arrangements. “The Law” is being broken by just about everyone, but everyone else just turns a blind eye to it rather than getting stressed rather than feel the need to get all angry and apoplectic and write on internet forums.

    There’s almost an “after you”, “no, after you” politeness to it all that is quaint, but not in the least bit stressful. In the valley, if you have a problem with someone you really have to ask yourself “is it them or is it me?”

    Why can’t everywhere be like this? I think it’s because of the “they (i.e. anyone doing something that we’re not) shouldn’t be here attitude”

    Here’s my rambler incident. I rode out of the valley and was riding on a legitimate bridleway that’s at least three Land Rovers wide, and has a pair of tractor ruts down the middle. Coming the other way was a bunch of at least thirty “proper” ramblers. Hking boots and gaiters and more goretex and rucksacks than a Himalay expedition merely to wander around the wild terrain near Woburn Abbey. As I approached the first group – riding uphill so not exactly caning it – I moved out of the ruts on which the ramblers were rambling and started to ride through the grass on the side. As I approached the middle group of ramblers the lead rambler -and I mention lead so that it’s clear he could see me – deliberately walked out of his rut and into my path. “Is it them, or is it me?” In this case, I think we can safely say it was him. I ignored this until the last minute when I moved sharply out of his way and said “mind your back”. As I passed the last group I said out loud, but with a smile (and I like to think a cheeky glint in my eye) “There’s always one”. In that case it was me.

    Do we as a group want to turn into that w*nker, being awkward for the sake of it?

    In the valley by turning a blind eye to RoW rule violations and letting everyone use the trails, responsibly, there are less conflict issues than if you tried to restrict people based solely on their mode of transport and create honeypots. Isn’t “mode of transport” a silly way to segregate people? I’m not suggesting it’s up there with race or gender or sexual preference but at the end of the day it’s all just people.

    tl:dr – IME letting everyone ride what they like where they like works better than restricting access. YMMV

    overthehill
    Free Member

    s’long, that.

    dobiejessmo
    Free Member

    Very long and excellent.Are you talking about weekdays or weekends?I ride mtbikes and trail ride and never have a problem in the week anywhere have had gates opened for me on my motorbike in the Dales/Peaks/Exmoor etc.The weekend is another story.Also there are alot of people in the countryside with no idea of ROWs.

    I have had a good few incidents on a mtbike with ramblers.Once waited for a group on Exmoor Horner woods before i went few the streams and the last guy said lucky you did that or i would have put my pole through your spokes.I would not take that now.

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    overthehill
    Free Member

    You paint a lovely picture of a ‘live and let live’ idyll.

    Sounds nice.

    I get regular Rambler histrionics on Bridleways around Ambleside, usually along the lines of:
    “You’re not allowed to ride here!”
    Something along these lines once shrieked at me whilst dismounted and stationary at a gate: a gate that had a brand new, very obvious “Bridleway” sign and Big Blue Arrow, both in clear sight of our new best friend. There’s always one.

    schnor
    Free Member

    Sounds great, if only it all can’t be like that! In fairness though there are quite a few places that are just like your valley.

    In my opinion its not about the number of users or the length of Right of Way or even if you’re on the wrong path, but more the proportion and balance of users; not too many walkers, not too few horses, etc. What that goldilocks proportion is, I have no idea.

    Of course some people are just arses and theres nothing you can do to change them. Just enjoy the nice people that you meet 🙂

    nick3216
    Free Member

    Just to clarify, that’s a typical weekend. The trail riders.we met on horseback were on the bridleway, a reread made me realise that wasn’t obvious.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    I’d vote for that.

    AnalogueAndy
    Free Member

    s’long, that.

    Ditto 🙂

    To be fair, it’s mostly the same round here too. The odd idiot in every camp but on the whole we get along nicely thank you 🙂

    zippykona
    Full Member

    I used to ride a bridle way which was a farm track. At the farm, the track turned into a footpath,even though it still looked like a jeep track. Farmer Giles would stand by his door when he saw you coming and make you walk.

    antigee
    Full Member

    nice, all very nice, nice enough to work, looking forward to it

    druidh
    Free Member

    nick3216 – you live in Scotland and ICMFP

    nick3216
    Free Member

    I wish. Within spitting distance of London.

    Mike_D
    Free Member

    The mention of Woburn Abbey was a bit of a giveaway 🙂

    nick3216
    Free Member

    I used to ride a bridle way which was a farm track. At the farm, the track turned into a footpath,even though it still looked like a jeep track. Farmer Giles would stand by his door when he saw you coming and make you walk.

    We have a bridleway like that. We got stopped last summer by the displeased looking farmer as we rode our bikes through the farm for the umpteenth time. I removed my cycling glasses so he could see my face instead of his own reflection and we ended up talking about whether or not we should be there, and the silliness of the bridleway just dead-ending. It ended with him wishing us well and asking us to be careful round the harvesters.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    We’ve got one of those near us. Bridleway that basically runs through a churned up swamp, next door to a fast forestry track designated as a FP. Farmer apparently makes a habit of telling folk off for riding it.

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