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  • 2017/2018 cx racing thread
  • shedbrewed
    Free Member

    I enjoyed the Abergavenny course, but due to little sleep, a head cold and not really focussing I ended up rolling a front tub halfway through the sighting lap; I landed on a tarmac bend with the front wheel already turned which was all the tub needed to pull off. Down I went like the proverbial. It did deal with one of the demons I’ve had since breaking my back in May in that it was the first crash I’ve had since then. Was good to deal with that.
    Mediocre race from me but yes, great course and good to see so many there.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    From an outside perspective, why do you guys even run them? I can count 4-5 instances of problems with gluing, rolling, whatever in the last 2 pages. Why not just run some fast narrow rubber tubeless?

    rollindoughnut
    Free Member

    Because the grip on the corners is measurably better and the ride is smoother thus conserving energy, plus you can bang them over roots, hitting the rim and usually get away with it.
    You do have to glue them up properly, set the pressure correctly for the cornering forces expected and nurse them through certain sections.
    Couple of races ago I was losing 2 seconds per lap to the leader. Think about how everything has to be optimum when you’re working to margins of 0.3 sec per minute on a course with 10 corners per minute.
    That’s why we run them.

    I do run tubeless on my training bike, but on race day I use Challenge tubulars.

    rollindoughnut
    Free Member

    I give the rim a coat and leave it a day then do the tyre and another thick coat on the rim and mount the tyre there and then. I read somewhere that this lets the glue really soak into the base tape.
    Key thing is I then leave it for a week or more somewhere warm to cure properly before using it.

    shedbrewed
    Free Member

    If I’d been on tubeless it would have rolled and burped too; it was sloppy riding due to tiredness.

    padkinson
    Free Member

    While everyone was away in Wales I thought I’d try to pick up some points at the London league in Brighton, which definitely did not happen.

    A combination of doing a hill climb, driving for 4 hours then going to a house party on Saturday left me a little tired to be racing cross, so my race positions went like this lap by lap: 4th, 6th, 8th, 8th, 9th, 9th, pulled out and lying on the floor. Managed about 40 minutes before conceding defeat, as I just couldn’t get the HR over 160, where I’d normally average 185.

    Ah well.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    weeksy – Member

    From an outside perspective, why do you guys even run them? I can count 4-5 instances of problems with gluing, rolling, whatever in the last 2 pages. Why not just run some fast narrow rubber tubeless? Tubs are the boss, as said, and set up right they’re reliable. Like anything good that’s a bit complicated on a bike, though, you can’t be a fanny about it when it goes wrong, you need a bit of perseverence.
    Personally I’ve rolled a tub twice – once when I glued them up after six pints, and then ground up a steep hill on really dry grass, and second at the weekend when I tried taping one onto a rim that’s a smidge too narrow and concave. Just see it as a learning experience.

    Tubeless is good, though, no doubt – I’m looking at getting a second cross bike which will defo be setup tubeless for training, and I’ll be trying them out in a race. Tubs do have obvious drawbacks – I actually enjoy glueing, find it quite meditative, but I don’t enjoy shelling out 60 quid for a new tub. Another major ballache is if you remove them from the rim [I do after the season to use the wheels on the road} then the base tape can be in a bit of a state and it’s not something that you can just re-glue time after time no problem.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Weekly, I use tubeless, even at nine stone I’m not happy going below 21 psi whereas heavier people with tubs are happily going sub 20 psi. Then you have to factor in that tubeless are much less supple casings and clearly the grip is worse. Even in a mid pack ability level your regularly riding for multiple laps in a super tight group. Loose half a bike length in one corner, the same in hte next and you are out of hte group almost instantly. I messed up one corner on sat and it took me half a lap of battling into a headwind on my own to get back. By which time I was spent.

    When I have hte cash I’ll be switching

    Anyway, time for a pre work training hour 😀

    weeksy
    Full Member

    Interesting info… Thanks to all.

    leggyblonde
    Free Member

    tubeless are much less supple

    This. “Open” tubs with latex tubes are a better option than tubeless IMO if you don’t want to be dealing with tubs.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    “Open” tubs with latex tubes are a better option than tubeless IMO if you don’t want to be dealing with tubs.

    The reason I use tubeless at the moment is puncture protection as I use cx bikes outside of racing. Hoping to get a dedicated race wheelset for next year. Do you have a feeling for the difference in suppleness between ‘real’ tubs and the clement style tubs that seem more like a tubelss tyre sealed up?

    Found this sequence of me overtaking an abergavenny rider coming round and down off the rise after the hurdles on Sat. Was pleased with that little move at the time so nice to see it on camera 😆

    rollindoughnut
    Free Member

    Ferrals. There was a wicked little mini rut to turn on at the bottom of that corner wasnt there? Pretty small target to hit in the mêlée though, especially when your vision is a bit blurry.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    @Thomthumb ha ha yes there should be a lap counter board out every lap, normally after leaders have completed 2 laps it will go up. It will tell you how many left. Normally one side where Commies are standing doing number counting.

    Crosstober looked like a good course watching in on S4C last night, shame I didn’t make it home but Dai and his team did a flipping brilliant job by the looks of things!

    ferrals
    Free Member

    rollindoughnut – Member

    Ferrals. There was a wicked little mini rut to turn on at the bottom of that corner wasnt there? Pretty small target to hit in the mêlée though, especially when your vision is a bit blurry.

    To be honest the ruts werent there on the saturday, I saw they had developed by the sunday though. Didn’t really need any extra grip on the saturday though.

    One thing I’ve been wondering about is how I can improve my starts. I’m typically gridded first or second row then inevitably get swamped. I know in part its due to not being aggressive enough, but equally in 1st or second row if I get off quicker I should be able to find clear water. Not sure if best to go easier gear and try and ramp up super fast cadence befor shifting down or just wind up with lower cadence in bigger gear.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Well since we’re doing photos 😉 (that’s me labouring away in the green and black, not the one who looks like he knows what he’s doing in red and white…)

    Fife College Dunfermline. The running sections of the course were in deep, gloopy mud, and I struggled badly. Elsewhere on the course I was having a great time including some crafty overtakes (if I do say so myself) but of course there are never any photographers there when you actually look good on the bike are there?

    Edit: actually here’s one of the few overtakes I made at the previous round in Callendar Park, Falkirk. Don’t think the guy behind realised I was sneaking up on him 😀

    legend
    Free Member

    Monk, are you racing Lochore (claggy pit of hell) and/or Plean? I now officailly own a CX bike, so hav entered Plean and should probably do Lochore too 😥

    That switchback at Fife looked horrendous, similar to the Somme in many respects….

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Just Lochore, might sneak Strathclyde Park in next year (the postponed round 3).

    The switchback wasn’t the worst bit, it was the run up from the finish straight to starting straight (if that makes sense). It was mostly flat but real deep sticky mud, I was pretty much walking it for the last two or three laps.

    Was looking out for your name on the Fife College start list, think I had guessed your initials might be MP?

    rollindoughnut
    Free Member

    Ferrals. I practice starts a lot. I find a bigger gear gives you time to clip in nicely then stomp on the power. Personally I think it’s the second phase of the start that matters. Everyone has got a 10 second effort in them however unfit they are, but then you need superb fitness for the next 30 seconds or so and this is where if you’ve got it you can easily come to the front as riders fade around you.

    Trouble is at a Trophy, every bugger is fit as a butcher’s dog.

    legend
    Free Member

    13thfloormonk – Member
    Was looking out for your name on the Fife College start list, think I had guessed your initials might be MP?

    Yup thats me. I know exactly who you are and obviously disappointed to see suspension on that bike 😉

    Didn’t have a bike for Fife so had to give it a miss – it looked like proper hard work! Could’ve probably borrowed a ride, but still have the guilt from taking someone else’s bike to Callendar!

    Think I might be able to do Lochore, Plean, Strathclyde Park and have a go at getting into the Super Quaich madness 🙂

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    I know exactly who you are

    Ah yes, the SDA connection! Need to do some more sluething, put a face/bike to the name 😉

    Sounds like you’ve committed this year, I’ll be happy with the three races, happier if I manage 4. You’d have enjoyed Fife, felt like it rewarded a more MTB style of riding in places (lots of corners with decent racing lines)

    Got some upgrades planned for next season when I should manage a few more, including some carbon rigid forks 8)

    LS
    Free Member

    Not a bad day on the Koppenberg so far for our lot 😀

    legend
    Free Member

    For those running 1x: what gearing setup ya running? I’ve got a 40T ring with 11-32T cassette, and i’m not entirely convinced it’s not too high a range for me

    tiim
    Free Member

    Re: 1x ratios.

    I’m on a 40t narrow wide superstar chainring, 105 11-32 cassette and 105 rear mech all of which seems about right for me.

    I did think I should go 38 on the front as I’m usually more of a spinner than grinder but haven’t yet been out of gears apart from a very muddy/grassy day where I lost the top three sprockets due to muck buildup, as a result I had to run an uphill and turned out to be about as quick as when I was riding it.

    I reckon for CX have a bigger gear to ‘push’ seems to work well for me and I’ll stick with it.

    Also worth noting that I’ve only dropped the chain twice, both on VERY bumpy sections when not pedaling despite the theory I should have a more hardcore rear mech.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Our clubs race in the Welsh league yesterday, despite the weather forecast threatening heavy rain in the days prior it never came and we had firm ground, getting cut up enough to be s bit slippy and coat tyres but not to clog on the bike. Saturday spent a few hours setting up and prepping the course – couldn’t believe how tired I was afterwards, clearly not used to walking 😳 Then had minimal sleep on sat night as I was too busy worrying about whether drunken youths would trash the course (it was in a public park), if the course would be well received and if my alarm would wake me up for the early set up. Thankfully adrenaline kicked in during my warm up clearing heavy legs and tired head and I was feeling reasonable on the start line if apprehensive being on the first row. Managed a reasonable start and was sat in 12th place after the first lap. As things spread out was having a good race with one other guys till I messed up one corner, my front wheel slid out and I couldn’t close the gap afterwards. Got caught and overtaken by two other guys, one got away but I sat on the others wheel and we ended up reeling in and passing various lapped riders and one guy on the same lap as us. Conscious that people where gaining behind us I attacked with 1.5 laps to go and managed to extend and maintain it to the finish. Really exciting race and was pleased the club event went well and the courses enjoyed by most.

    Worth catching up with the European champs on YouTube too for exciting racing, only seen the u23 men so far but it’s a cracker

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    Anyone riding southampton at the weekend?

    I’m entered. If it’s dry i might ride out; my wife needs my car and i don’t know if i can be bothered to squeeze my muddy bike in her car & then clean the inside!

    I’ll need to leaving spares at home & lights for the return journey though…

    same as last time – green bike/ green Push the cranks kit. say hello – i’ll be near the back 😉

    Aims. Improve my placings (85% at Sparsholt), chase overtakers more, no chain dropping, win the sprint for the line

    steve_b77
    Free Member

    Race up at Leverhulme Park in Horwich the other week, far drier than the previous round, but still soggy as hell in places.

    I managed to drag my carcass round to 56th in V40, out of 96 riders, so 11 places up on the previous round. Actually feel like there’s some fitness coming back after the lay off.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/21fz2w9]2017-11-09_04-48-02[/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    The little man had another good race, struggled a bit in the soggy long grass, but came home 13th overall out of 41 U8’s, which is a staggering turn out for such a young age group in my mind, he’s also moved up a place in the league to 11th 😀

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/21hCsPb]2017-11-09_04-47-13[/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    I wish I could do this on the way home after a race

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/21fzELE]2017-11-09_04-47-26[/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    This weekend we’ve got the rather long jaunt North to Ulverston for a no doubt muddy tech fest.

    legend – Member
    For those running 1x: what gearing setup ya running? I’ve got a 40T ring with 11-32T cassette, and i’m not entirely convinced it’s not too high a range for me

    I’ve got a 38t front ring and 10 speed 11-32 SLX cassette with a XT clutch using a Wolftooth Tanpan to sort out the pull ratio difference with the 105 levers.

    crosshair
    Free Member

    Good luck Thomthumb! I’m not going although I ought to do a few more to justify my tyres 😆

    I really could do with lower gearing if I race again- might help my cadence. I think it’s 38/46 on the front and 32-12 on the back but I used to really utilise my granny gear when racing my MTB on an XT triple.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    Sports centre was super muddy today. For me it was a race of two halves first half i was holding my own, somewhere in the midfield. The bike started clogging and i had to stop & lost 1/4 of a lap attempting to clear it. after that it clogged several times. I ended up running the final 1/2 of my last lap, shouldering the bike as the rear wheel wouldn’t turn. I was last across the line, to a good cheer. 😀

    Aims. Improve my placings (85% at Sparsholt), chase overtakers more, no chain dropping, win the sprint for the line

    52/62 84% so just?! did chase overtakes did me well: I was keeping up with a friend of mine (normally in vets)
    until i clogged. didn’t drop the chain – over the top of the cassette though! didn’t sprint for the line. see above.

    After the race carried the bike halfway back to the car, once i’d finished my hot choc i started riding, then this happened. Hanger, chain, mech all scrap! At least i finished the race. 🙄

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/21sG8o8]IMG_4822[/url] by thom1984, on Flickr

    mick_r
    Full Member

    Bang on midfield at Ulverston Vet40-50 (36 of 72). Just realised 11 places ahead of steve_b77 🙂 Will try and say hi next week (I’m on the Unimog orange weird home made frame).

    Good brutal / techy course and for the second time hit the goal of not getting lapped. Starting to realise most of my racing benchmarks are where I place amongst the other dads…… Lost a couple of places during lap 4 but tried hard to fight back and swapped back and forth right to the end which was good but futile fun.

    steve_b77
    Free Member

    mick_r – Member
    Bang on midfield at Ulverston Vet40-50 (36 of 72). Just realised 11 places ahead of steve_b77 Will try and say hi next week (I’m on the Unimog orange weird home made frame).

    Don’t worry I probably won’t be able to speak 😆 I’m in KTM Impsport team kit, God knows CX isn’t my forte!!

    I got a cracking start and then blew up spectacularly, still it was only my 3rd race back after injury so I’m getting there. Was taking it very easily on the descents as I’m still wary of crashing and coming down on my shoulder again, don’t want to be out of action again.
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/Gx6V5F]#cyclocross #nwcca #ulverston[/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    The little fella did really well in the U8’s, we counted him in as 8th but the results show 11th, 2 places behind a lad he beat by over the line by a good 20 seconds. He put that much effort in I had to carry him back to where we were set up, before he filled his face, had a sit down and spent all afternoon riding round the perimeter of the course. The powers of recovery of a 5 yr old.
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/DkYqDL]#cyclocross #nwcca #ulverston[/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    No Central League for us this week as the venue owners got cold feet so it had to be cancelled, made up for it with a rare day of mtb playing around at Area 51. Managed another 7th at the previous week’s Central round at the gorgeous Shuttleworth college. Last year I was fighting to stay in the back of the second group, this year I’m getting dropped by the first group but staying ahead of the second, still not figured out where my extra fitness has come from but it’s highlighted limitations in my technique (I rode like a spanner at Shuttleworth, eventually falling off and twisting my bars which cost me a place).

    once i’d finished my hot choc i started riding, then this happened. Hanger, chain, mech all scrap! At least i finished the race

    I’ve done just that riding back to the car park from the finish line, got about 20 metres 🙄 (but better 20m after than 20m before I guess).

    This coming weekend is RAF Halton, winner of course and venue of the year last 2 years running; loads of singletrack so a mountain biker’s course, and the RAF put on a marching band, Belgian frite van and there’s a rumour they’re adding a sand pit this year 😀

    ferrals
    Free Member

    there’s a rumour they’re adding a sand pit this year

    Any organisers who build a sand pit around, how much does the materials cost? I was wondering about this and I came to the conclusion you’d need about 9 tonnes of sand for a decent sized pit so £270+VAT excluding wood for the boarding. A lot of cash for what would be a tempory feature. Plus no idea how we’d get rid of the sand afterwards!

    He put that much effort in I had to carry him back to where we were set up

    Epic!

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    IIRC Mark Harvey put 10 tons of sand in at Dalton Barracks, but had the luxury of leaving it there so it’s a permanent feature of any races he organises (he runs a summer series, a Wessex round, recently put on a 3hr night race, and has just committed to the Central Regional champs).

    Possibly put tarps down so you can lift the sand after use?

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Sounds like I’m in the right ball park for quantity. It was more just idle speculation really. I don’t know how we’d transport 10 tonnes of sand afterwards anyway! Unless we sold it to the council as a kids play sand pit and just left it 😆

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    I was wondering about this and I came to the conclusion you’d need about 9 tonnes of sand for a decent sized pit

    Wessex CX – used an abandoned golf course; complete with bunker. It was ace – i’m not sure they’ve been back for a couple of years which is real shame.

    It was my first CX race and i rode SS commuter with a massive gear. I’d love to have another crack with a proper bike/ my miniscule amount of knowledge.

    pdw
    Free Member

    Wessex CX – used an abandoned golf course

    Was that the Oxonian event in Oxford? We had to stop running it there mostly because there wasn’t enough parking for the numbers now attending.

    I was at Southampton yesterday and had comfortably my worst race of the season. On the muddy uphill drags I just couldn’t get any traction. The entire field rode past me on the start whilst I was sat there spinning my wheel. On the plus side, the bike survived and I even had several gears still working at the end of the race.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    Was that the Oxonian event in Oxford?

    No eastleigh golf course/ fleming park. I think it was a sotonia event.

    google suggests they ran it 2012,13 & 14.

    clockarockin
    Free Member

    First ever CX race for me at Leeds Castle on Sunday! I got a bit too excited at the start and sprinted the first lap to then blow up early and spend the rest of the race being overtaken. Highlight was sliding down the off camber muddy descents.

    Despite being an hour of suffering I think I enjoyed it and looking forward to the next one!

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    I got a bit too excited at the start and sprinted the first lap to then blow up early

    An integral part of CX racing and happens at every race and in every part of the grid, it’s not just a newbie mistake but it is a fine balance. You don’t want to get baulked at the first pinch point and lose a stack of time, but you’ll lose more if you blow up and go backwards. I’m in my third season and still consider myself a novice – I’m racing against guys who’ve raced CX and road for 10, 20 years so still learning stuff like pacing, tactics, and even basics like the best lines (which is one of the reasons I watch the pro races on YouTube/Eurosport).

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