chewkw en-US Tue, 29 May 2012 09:58:41 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://singletrackworld.com/forum/search.php http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3770437 Tue, 08 May 2012 02:39:43 +0000 TandemJeremy 3770437@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Druidh - I am certainly a lot happier with that than a labour / tory - we hate the SNP coalition</p> <p><blockquote>The SNP and Labour, the two biggest groups in The City of Edinburgh Council, have come to an agreement that will see them operate together to serve the best interests of the people of Edinburgh.</blockquote></p> <p><a href="http://www.newsnetscotland.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsnetscotland.com/</a></p> <p>Not hugely sure of the source tho - this mornings hootsmon appeared to ay labour / tory coalition was a done deal </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3770424 Tue, 08 May 2012 01:05:28 +0000 ernie_lynch 3770424@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>It certainly is not efficient.</blockquote></p> <p>I said :</p> <p><strong><em>"allows for a smoother and more efficient process of government"</em></strong></p> <p>You think having a whole bunch of individuals without any affiliation to political parties running local government would be more efficient ?</p> <p>How exactly to do you figure that out ?</p> <p>.</p> <p><blockquote>What do ex firemen, painter and decorators, failed business men/women etc know about how social work, roads, education departments work?</blockquote></p> <p>They don't run social services, highways and education departments, they decide policy. Based on the mandate given to them by the electorate.</p> <p>It seems to me that you are questioning the whole concept of democracy, which is fair enough I suppose. Although it would be more honest to admit that you reject democracy based on your belief that the public who receive the services of local government are unqualified to express an opinion on the matter. Which seems to be what you are saying. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3770414 Tue, 08 May 2012 00:43:47 +0000 Trekster 3770414@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote> it makes what's on offer easier to understand and allows for a smoother and more efficient process of government.</blockquote><br /> I would suggest that the low polling turnout might be due people not understanding it?<br /> It certainly is not efficient.<br /> Must be one of the few "jobs" where no formal qualification are needed to be able to manage or influence how a multi million pound budget is distributed.<br /> What do ex firemen, painter and decorators, failed business men/women etc know about how social work, roads, education departments work?<br /> They will just be getting to grips with the workings of local government when the next election comes around and they get turffed out and the process starts again! Not very efficient at all!! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3770336 Mon, 07 May 2012 23:27:02 +0000 druidh 3770336@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>And in a rare example of common sense...</p> <p><a href="http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/4922-rivals-put-differences-behind-them-as-edinburgh-coalition-announced">The SNP and Labour, the two biggest groups in The City of Edinburgh Council, have come to an agreement that will see them operate together to serve the best interests of the people of Edinburgh.</a> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3769580 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:24:01 +0000 ernie_lynch 3769580@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Why do we need politics in local government?</blockquote></p> <p>Because that's what government/governing is about - politics. That applies to both national government and local government.</p> <p>If you mean why the need for 'political parties' then you don't, elections can include independents, if anyone can be bothered to stand as one. But generally people prefer if like-minded people group together into political parties, it makes what's on offer easier to understand and allows for a smoother and more efficient process of government. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3769502 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:09:27 +0000 Trekster 3769502@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Why do we need politics in local government?<br /> Might be a daft question but no-one knocked on my door so I could`nt ask them.<br /> They are all paid now, with offices, laptops, phones etc. Only need to "attend" a few meetings a month to qualify for their "allowances".<br /> They all want to improve education, look after the auldies(like me)fix the roads, shoot the seagulls etc, improve town centres(horse bolted, stable door closed)etc,etc<br /> Everything our council does appears to turn into a fiasco. They talk about it for 10-20yrs and then when anything does go ahead and goes t*** up it is always the "other lots" fault. That is if a decision ever gets made <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif" title=":roll:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> <br /> Bit like changing the guard at Buck Palace. Different people, same uniforms......................... </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768435 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:57:01 +0000 epicsteve 3768435@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>What Ruth Davidson said is in fact true. What she missed out though was that her own party had ceased to function as a viable party in Scotland quite a few years back.</p> <p>Not only have the Lib Dems ceased to be a viable party in Scotland it's questionable if they're still a viable party UK wide. One of the more interesting stats after the council elections last week was that the Lib-Dems won 431 of the UK wide seats on offer. The SNP almost won that many just in Scotland. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768412 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:49:11 +0000 druidh 3768412@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-council-elections-ruth-davidson-appeals-to-lib-dem-voters-to-switch-to-tories-1-2279955"><blockquote>THE Liberal Democrats have “ceased to function as a viable party in Scotland”, Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson said today.</blockquote></a></p> <p>Oh teh ironing!</p> <p><blockquote>A Scottish Liberal Democrat spokesman said: “We all had a good chuckle at this. We don’t really know if Ruth Davidson really believes this nonsense, but with only 30 more councillors and just a tenth of the MPs we have got in Scotland she would do better looking at the state of her own party.</blockquote> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768295 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:12:46 +0000 TandemJeremy 3768295@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Kit - I think a realignment could happen after a while / over time as things settle down. Tweedy / wet tories and the right of the SNP are natural bedfellows, there would be room for a radical party of the left as well as the rest of the snp and a part of labour liberal democrats / highland independents occupying the middle ground </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768289 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:11:21 +0000 mogrim 3768289@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>But do you really think that all the current pro-union parties will simply knuckle down and accept that they have to govern an independent Scotland. After all, it would be completely against their principles.</blockquote></p> <p>If you don't like those principles I'm sure they have others <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_smile.gif" title=":)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> <p>Realistically, their political positions aren't entirely based on pro/anti independence, they have other policies too. In the long run I'm guessing they'll end up with a couple of main parties, roughly split along the same lines as every other democracy in the world, and a couple of smaller parties that may act as kingmakers. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768281 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:08:38 +0000 mogrim 3768281@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>That Labour will not do deals with the SNP? - not really its more to do with a sort of tribal hatred of them.</blockquote></p> <p>Some of the Spanish local politics is like that: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremadura">Extremadura</a> now has a United Left / Popular Party coalition, and all because the United Left (communist) party hate the Socialists... the Popular Party are the right wingers running Spain <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif" title=":roll:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768278 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:07:22 +0000 Kit 3768278@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>But do you really think that all the current pro-union parties will simply knuckle down and accept that they have to govern an independent Scotland. After all, it would be completely against their principles. I think the SNP would have to stick together to ensure political stability, at least until they have proven that the whole thing can work... </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768267 Mon, 07 May 2012 15:03:46 +0000 TandemJeremy 3768267@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>In some ways the SNP may even be a braoder coalition that other parties and if / when independence is a reality then I would expect it change / evolve/ split. I think Scotland would end up with a range of parties much as now - 5 or 6 with credible shares of the vote and a government of a coalition being the norm </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768261 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:59:59 +0000 druidh 3768261@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I'm not quite sure what will happen after independence. I could see the various factions within the SNP splitting up and re-aligning with the remnants of the Labour and Conservative parties, or some new left- and right-of-centre parties forming out of the amalgam. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768221 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:40:51 +0000 Kit 3768221@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>And just imagine how much worse it will get if/when we get independence <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_cry.gif" title=":cry:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768196 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:32:19 +0000 epicsteve 3768196@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>are the two that ideologically opposed ?</blockquote></p> <p>On the union issue then yes but on many other things no. It's about pettiness rather than ideology though. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768195 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:32:03 +0000 druidh 3768195@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>trailmonkey - Member<br /> are the two that ideologically opposed ?</blockquote>In local council terms, pretty much. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768190 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:31:00 +0000 trailmonkey 3768190@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>are the two (lab / con) that ideologically opposed ? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768187 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:29:33 +0000 epicsteve 3768187@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>I don't see it as being a shift to the right by labour</blockquote></p> <p>In Scotland it's more about Labour having lost it's place as the largest party to the SNP and not wanting to co-operate with them on anything. </p> <p>Labour in Scotland will vote against the SNP no matter what the issue - in some cases voting differently to what they did when they were in power and also differently to what Labour in the UK supports. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/scottish-local-politics-labour-and-tory-make-deals#post-3768125 Mon, 07 May 2012 14:10:17 +0000 paulosoxo 3768125@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Isn't main stream politics now a case of supply and demand? I don't see it as being a shift to the right by labour, but more of a shift to the centre by all the main players, brought about by career politicians and there ambition to be successful, rather than following a certain belief. </p> <p>We're seeing this in the some of the trade unions too, banging the drum for change to keep members paying their subs in a time where people are looking to cut their own spend. </p>