I’m reasonably sure that anyone with half a clue will put forward the argument that “Homeopathy has no effect beyond placebo” rather than simply “Homeopathy has no effect,” unless they’re just oversimplifying or generally carefree with their choice of words. No?

Has anyone here actually claimed “it has no effect” or have you got the Straw Construction Kit out again?

Well Cougar – Bigrich said it on this page, its been said twice on the first page of this thread, again on the second page, and the first post on the thread uses the quote “there is absolutely no medical benefit of homoeopathy” without the follow on qualifier from the original quote of “other than a possible placebo effect.”

There’s a lot of faith being put in this “placebo effect” on this thread.
Anyone care to throw in a few pointers to it’s proven efficacy.

Loum – couple of examples:

http://www.jwatch.org/jw200804290000001/2008/04/29/placebo-effect-and-irritable-bowel-syndrome
http://blogs.jwatch.org/hiv-id-observations/index.php/the-extraordinary-power-of-placebo/2010/03/10/

And it seems to be so good that 97% of UK doctors use it:

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/03March/Pages/97-percent-of-GPs-admit-prescribing-placebos.aspx

Thank you.

ninfan surely that just proves that 97% of doctors will giving irritating hypochondriacs any form of pill just to get them out of their surgery.

Apart form achieving that goal it does not show it worked 😉

FWIW I would happily prescribe a broad spectrum placebo to these fools and they would probably be grateful…can we do it in such a way as we profit from the prescription charge? 💡

So in summary, pretend medicine can help a pretend illness?

ninfan surely that just proves that 97% of doctors will giving irritating hypochondriacs any form of pill just to get them out of their surgery.

Yeah, but if you’re going to do that, then you might as well give them nice cheap sugar pills rather than expensive real drugs – 😀

Loum – here’s a good one, a nice meta-analysis: http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1999-11094-001

Edit:

can help a pretend illness

No, in fact I think that its incredibly arrogant to call, for example, depression or chronic pain a ‘pretend illness’, these are real conditions that affect the quality of life of tens of thousands of people up and down the country, the NHS spends a fortune dealing with them, the fact that they can often be improved by tricking the mind of the patient is a bonus, not a criticism.

Its not just stupid people that respond to the placebo effect!

If homeopathy advocates put forward a study with conclusions as weak as the second one on Ninfan’s list, we’d be all over it like a (psychosomatic) rash.

Loads of doctors prescribe off-label (one of the ‘placebo’ situations in the survey), for example prescribing an adult drug to a child outside the strict terms of its marketing license. Doesn’t mean they’re looking for placebo effects.

Well Cougar – Bigrich said it on this page, its been said twice on the first page of this thread, again on the second page, and the first post on the thread uses the quote “there is absolutely no medical benefit of homoeopathy” without the follow on qualifier from the original quote of “other than a possible placebo effect.”

This quote is a misquote, as a follow-up poster later explains. (EDIT – as you said, sorry, I initially misread your post.)

I’ve had a brief scan through for the other posts you refer to and can’t immediately see any of them(*).

The only thing I can see from Bigrich which you might be referring to is where he states “it his having no effect”; the sentence immediately preceding this (emphasis mine) is “there is no statistical difference with the controls“, ie, when compared to placebo.

(* – are they homeopathic posts?)

It’s intuitively nonsense but for the tiny percentage of folk on here who haven’t made their mind up about everything, here’s an actual New Scientist article worth reading… http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1532-bizarre-chemical-discovery-gives-homeopathic-hint.html

there is no statistical difference with the controls”, ie, when compared to placebo.

Cougar – however as i pointed out in the next post, there’s more than one type of control, the ie. is your own supposition… as to the homeopathic posts: Ctrl-F for ‘no effect’

Here’s a point of course – if nobody thinks that things that are really, really diluted can have any effect, why do they get so upset when I have a crafty one in the swimming pool 😉

Because the bacteria and virii in your shit can cause real life threatening infections?

Don’t dis placebos the mind is a powerful thing. Real life experiment; tickle yourself under your armpit, nothing. Let your wife do the same thing, bloody ticklish. 😀

Yeah, but if you’re going to do that, then you might as well give them nice cheap sugar pills rather than expensive real drugs –

Actually you should give them really expensive sugar pills as the placebo effect increases if the patient believes the treatment is more expensive :>