Wind turbines – love 'em or hate 'em?

greenwashing

😆

“In 2004 two major German studies investigated the size of contribution that wind farms make towards guaranteed capacity. Both studies separately came to virtually identical conclusions, that wind energy currently contributes to the secure production capacity of the system, by providing 8% of its installed capacity.

isnt that just a long winded 😯 way of saying the wind doent always blow?

Binners – I’m currently waiting for the patent to go through.

My plan was to ask Funky Duncy Bannatyne the Dragon for 6 billion dollars to get my company off the ground. I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that he and Theodopopopolous Paphitis the Dragon will come to fisticuffs in order to give me the cash.

backhander – Member
Presumably you mean 12kWh per day or an average of 0.5kW – but I am not sure. Get it right.

I think you’ll find that kW=kWh. The hour was put in for those who may not know, get it right.

They aren’t the same though??

watt = energy per second, 1W = 1 j/s.
1Wh = energy used by a one watt load in an hour, 1Wh = 1*3600 = 3600 j.

Or something like that……

I think you’ll find that kW=kWh. The hour was put in for those who may not know, get it right.

Arf arf 🙂

Do we really need street lights all over the place at night? On motorways at 3am in the morning??

No, that’s why these things tend to get turned off nowadays.

Although street lighting is quite important in towns. Walking home from the pub in pitch darkness could be fun and games. Esp if you’re female say and alone. You wanna carry a torch around with you at all times?

No it doesn’t. kW is power, kWh is energy.

Oh do come on.

Walking home from the pub in pitch darkness could be fun and games. Esp if you’re female say and alone. You wanna carry a torch around with you at all times?

Perhaps we could adapt GlitterGary’s idea and have a hat with a wind-turbine on it that powers a head-torch?

I think we may be going some way to solving our energy woes here

I love ’em.

I think they represent the ingenuity and good-will of man better than almost any other structure. We know that they basically work, there is some dispute as to how well efficient they are but as turbine, battery and superconductor technology improve they will just get better and better.

Still think we are going to need a decent supply of nuclear though to compliment our wind farms and to supply the seriously intensive industries like water purification.

No, that’s why these things tend to get turned off nowadays.

Really? The only excuse I see given is saving council’s money (not that that isn’t another reason).

Although street lighting is quite important in towns. Walking home from the pub in pitch darkness could be fun and games. Esp if you’re female say and alone. You wanna carry a torch around with you at all times?

Yeah, obviously don’t just turn of ALL the lights, but there must be places where it isn’t needed.
I seem to remember in Germany on many major roads (not sure if they were A-roads or motorways – it was a few yrs ago) there would be long unlit stretches at night with lighting provided at junctions/roundabouts etc. This doesn’t seem quite so prevalent here; the whole length of road is lit.

The local environmental impact is probably the most damning thing against them.
They are often sited on sensitive moorland and their construction / access roads totally messes with the peat bogs natural systems, local hydrology, etc. Plus the energy required to build them, ship them from China and production and pouring of 1000’s tonnes of concrete.

Also the impact on bird and bat populations has been proven. They are shown to kill bats both through impacts with blades but also the pressure change in proximity to the moving blades can cause bats to internally haemorrhage.

This link is interesting – you hear claims of wind power contributing 3-5% of total electricity in the UK. This is the real time measure of UK energy production by all means (you’ll need to scroll down) – http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm

In the last 24 hours nationally wind provided 0.6% of UK power and right now is contributing 0.3%. So 3157 wind turbines are contributing less than 1% of total power supply.

I like ’em.

Planning a route with Mr Starship up onto Scout Moor via Peel Tower for next Saturday to get a closer look. Fat nurses welcome.

maybe after Bill Gates has eradicated malaria and bought his first nobel prize he’ll realise that it looks odd on his mantle all alone.

Then he can get started on sorting out a safe renewable energy source for the world.

then again . . . . .

Oh do come on

😯

When you are talking about power generation there is an absolutely collosal difference between the two!

12kW is a totally different ball game to 12kWh/day!

Harry. Could you keep me posted on that one please fella? Wouldn’t mind joining you, if you don’t mind.

What? In context;

Presumably you mean 12kWh per day or an average of 0.5kW

So, according to your presumption you’ll get 0.5kW in what amount of time? (seeing as you’ve stated units in power, not energy).
In rated power generation, how long would you expect a 10kW turbine to be capable of delinvering its 10kW?
Or is the h not written as it’s assumed that people know this?

I love em, but hate it when some people refer to them as wind MILLS! cretins!!

actually there has been some studies that the embodied energy (energy used in manufacturing, constructing it etc) in a wind turbine (or typical wind farm cant remember) is far more than the energy it will produce in its life time, so whetehr they are the “solution” or not remains to be seen!!

Backhander, are you seriously suggesting that Watts and Watt-hours are the same thing, only we don’t generally write the “hour” bit because ‘everyone knows that’s what it means,” or am I misunderstanding you?

Because if that is what you’re trying to say, I think you need to stop talking and start listening.

If I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, apologies.

backhander – Member
What? In context;
Presumably you mean 12kWh per day or an average of 0.5kW

So, according to your presumption you’ll get 0.5kW in what amount of time? (seeing as you’ve stated units in power, not energy).

I think molgrips means you’ll get either 12kWh per day, as in the total energy ‘created’ by the wind turbine in a day will be 12kwh (measured in Joules).
Or you will get an average output of 0.5kw, i.e. you will get on average 500w out of the turbine constantly (measured in Joules/second).

Think of it as water coming out of a tap – you’ll get Y litres of water out of a tap/second (analogous to watts) and if you catch it in a bucket you’ll get Y litres * time the tap is on for in total (analogous to kWh).

I quite like the structures, although I agree with neninja that the associated access roads can be an unwelcome addition to the moors.

The coal-fired power industry likes them as well. No wind farm will ever lead to a conventional power station closing it’s doors, but they’re a useful sop to the public – shows that the government’s putting its back into the renewables business.

So, according to your presumption you’ll get 0.5kW in what amount of time?

At any given time it would be producing 0.5kW (assuming constant wind speed of course so this is hypothetical). You might as well ask how long it takes a 60W light bulb to ‘use’ 60W? It’s using it all the time! Or you might as well ask how long would it take to travel 60mph on your bike?

Power is the time derivative of energy.

In rated power generation, how long would you expect a 10kW turbine to be capable of delinvering its 10kW

Indefinitely, given sufficient wind.

binners – Member
Harry. Could you keep me posted on that one please fella? Wouldn’t mind joining you, if you don’t mind

No problem. The more the merrier etc.

The rough plan is (subject to baby sitter availability) to start in Holcombe then do Peel Tower, Helmshore, Edenfield, Scout Moore, Rooley Moore, Nangreaves, Ramsbottom, The Rake and back to the car park. I’ve run off some maps so we can make it up on the go.

Saturday morning, 9:30 ish.

I’ll email you when we firm up the meeting point and the start time.

Not the question mol, in rated capacity how long should the WT take to deliver 10kW? or a heater? or a motor?
Rated power is per hour, so if you have a 10kW motor it is rated to deliver 10kW or power in 1 hour. 10kW x 1hr = 10kWh. As it’s the same number, the h is often dropped. If I turn that 10kW motor off for 10 hours, I will save 100kWh.

in rated capacity how long should the WT take to deliver 10kW?

You are making no sense. Power is an instantaneous figure.

so if you have a 10kW motor it is rated to deliver 10kW or power in 1 hour

What if you run it for two hours?

Rated capacity.
kWh is KiloWatts Per 1 Hour. if a water heater had a 4.5 kW heating element, that ran for 1 hour (60 minutes, or 3600 seconds) it would consume 4.5 kWh of energy. If it ran for 2 hours, it would consume 9kWh of energy etc.

Edit – withdrawn after you fixed your post.

Finishing with the Rake? That’s certainly an interesting approach. You maniac!!! 😉

I’m definitely up for it though. I’ll see if I can build up the Intense this week. Sick of riding my bloody hardtail round there. 🙁

I like wind turbines, but I don’t believe they are the green fix that people (politicians) seem to think they are. They have their place, that is on suitable sites, probably offshore, but there are many other types of energy provision that can be utilised, and more successfully!

In this country we need to stop subsidising wind farms, and promote initiatives such as energy-from-waste and biomass, particularly in the application of district heating. Ground- and air-source heat pumps should also be promoted, and most significantly, fundamental changes to the design of new housing and offices (i.e. passive building designs).

And of course carbon capture and storage on thermal plants and industry…

kWh is KiloWatts Per 1 Hour.

No, it isn’t.

KWh is the amount of energy is generated (or used). KW/h is the rate of change of power generation; eg, it a power station was generating 5KW, and an hour later it was generating 15KW, it’d have ramped up at a rate of 10KW/h.

KWh is the amount of energy is generated (or used). KW/h is the rate of change of power generation; eg, it a power station was generating 5KW, and an hour later it was generating 15KW, it’d have ramped up at a rate of 10KW/h.

Good googling.
kWh is kW (power) used per hour (time).
Your example shows that the plant has increased by 10kW per 1 hour = 10kWh.

(edit removed, nor can I)

that wind energy currently contributes to the secure production capacity of the system, by providing 8% of its installed capacity.

I’d read that as Germany is getting 8% of its electrical energy from wind turbines, which sounds about right.

Yes they never/rarely prduce the maximum capacity, but look at coal/gas/nuclear they don’t run 100% all the time either and quite often get power companies downrating a coal fired power station towards the end of its life so that they can say it’s not economicaly viable to refurbish thus it gets knocked down, otherwise they’d have to sell it to a competitor as you can’t decomision a viable power station under anti-competitiveness legislation (i.e. in simple terms buy one, then decomission it to push up the price of the rest of the ‘lecy, which your competitior isnt getting as he sold you the station).

For those who believe that wind turbines have a lousy carbon footprint try this:

For a big wind turbine:

260 tonnes of steel: 390 tonnes of CO2
850m3 concrete: 48t CO2
Transport of material sot site: 1.3t

Producing the energy that the wind turbine produces over 30years with fossil fuels would result in the realease of 8000t of CO2.

That looks pretty good to me. The windmill is carbon neutral in under two years and will produce clean energy for many more.

Finishing with the Rake? That’s certainly an interesting approach. You maniac!!!

You get a 20 mile warm up.

The solution is obvious. We need to detonate nuclear bombs to create the famous “500mph wind” that’ll get the fellas really spinning.

The benefits wil…..ah….no, no. Not my best work.

love ’em.. anyone not loving them deserves a slow and painful labotomy..

EDIT: preceded by a thorough rogering with a rusty pike..

My mate is vigorously campaingning against 2 being put on the downs by Lambourne, the ultimate NIMBY.

They play a major role in electricity generating in Denmark and Germany.

I’d read that as Germany is getting 8% of its electrical energy from wind turbines, which sounds about right.

Sorry, you read it wrong. It’s 8% of the installed capacity of the WTs.
So, for example a 100kW WT delivering 8kW. This is low, the production ratio is normally 13-26%, although sometimes nothing.
The WT farm by afan consumed energy over the cold snap due to the heating systems to stop them freezing (so I’m informed). WTs also have energy supplies to start them (or did) and require massive infrastructure installations.

Good googling.

Lol! We all know this stuff, it’s very basic Physics or engineering.

kWh is kW (power) used per hour (time).

No.

kW/h is kilowatts per hour i.e. power DIVIDED by time. kWh is kilowatt hours meaning power MULTIPLIED by time.

All the difference in the world.

A 60W bulb uses 60W all the time it’s on. You can leave it on for a year if you like, it’s a 60W bulb. Leave it on or one hour it’ll use 60Wh.

Have not herd that phrase since I was at school. Internet hard man at work!
If you have nothing to contribute; **** off.

If you can’t construct a n argument without insults and swearing please go away.

that bridge torm posted is pretty 🙂

require massive infrastructure installations

As do most renewable project, no? Apart from local generation…