I’ve got a poplock adjust remote wotsit on my Revs, and whilst I do use the lockout, I never use the dial as, frankly, I don’t know what it’s for.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

Adding compression damping slows the rate at which the forks compress.
Heavier riders need more, lighter riders less, for a given spring weight/air pressure

If you think the fork feels a bit wallowy, add a bit of compression, if it feels harsh, take some off.

The exact opposite is true for rebound –
Heavier riders need less rebound damping as their weigh slows the extension of the fork, lighter riders need more to stop the fork rebounding too quickly and feeling (very) harsh.

IMO, with RS forks the rebound setting is more important and more useful than the compression.

Hope that helps
🙂

Is it low speed or high spped compression?

IIRC, high speed is exactly what PP described above. Forks get firmer with more applied

low speed compression is essentially pro pedal, it will reduce bobbing under hard pedalling or while you are stood up bouncing on the pedals.

Si, ask Mikey when you get them back, he really good with setting up the RS forks. Well he should be shouldn’t he.

I can explain it next time we’re out but Mikey will do a better job.

Si, ask Mikey when you get them back

I meant to, I forgot :-s

Is it low speed or high speed compression?

Yes.

Give him a bell then, duh….

Is it low speed or high speed compression?

Yes.

The dial on Poploc remotes is essentially ‘high speed’ compression in that it’s only active when the fork isn’t locked out.

It’s all well and good getting someone to set them up for you, but the best way is for YOU to UNDERSTAND what the adjustments do, and notice the effect they have on your bike/ride and only then will you get the set-up right. It’s not rocket science, but what someone thinks is correct can easily be wrong for YOU.
Understand it, then set it up methodically yourself. That’s the way to go.
:o)

peter i think i’ve found the answer to your bike setup question thread:

The exact opposite is true for rebound –
Heavier riders need less rebound damping as their weigh slows the extension of the fork, lighter riders need more to stop the fork rebounding too quickly and feeling (very) harsh.

if you are running a heavier spring you are likely to need more rebound damping to control fork extension.

comporession is down to the fork, spring and rider weigh and riding style.

an xc rider may want more compression damping than a DH rider as they need the fork to be less compliant.

if you have the perfect spring for your weight you may not need compression damping. however this is fork dependant. i have to run compression damping on marz forks but run none on manitou.

If you bur non-poplock forks, can you adjust the compression damping inside?

(Sorry for hijack)
VH – Yes, all logical thoughts and I agree with most of what you say there but you’ve missed one major detail – No matter what fork you are using, and wherever you put the dials, you will never have ‘no compression damping’! If there’s oil in the fork and it’s moving through the shims then you have damping. End of story.
The [list]standard damping rates[/list] on each model may well be different, which is why you set them up differently, but you still have damping, chap!
:o)

Good point about the prefect spring rates though, that’s what I don’t currently have!

If you bur non-poplock forks, can you adjust the compression damping inside?

No, it’s still external. Just turn the fork-top dial less then 1/4 of a turn, anything past that and you’re into lock-out territory!
🙂

The dial on Poploc remotes is essentially ‘high speed’ compression in that it’s only active when the fork isn’t locked out.

Maybe I misunderstand you but I disagree with that explanation.

The blue dial on the poploc controls the size of the port in the damper, same as the blue dial on non-poploc forks. This controls the low speed compression.

The only ‘high-speed’ damping adjustment on Motion Control forks is achieved by setting the floodgate to almost fully open, so that it actives on big hits (it will do this even when the fork is not locked out – and yes I do know that this is not what the manual says – try it on your own forks! 🙂 )

The thing to understand about damping as opposed to springs is that they’re speed dependent, not position dependent (usually – some of the more high tech forks actually do have position dependent damping).

If you move a fork slowly enough (like infinitely slow), unless the fork is locked out, any amount of damping will make no difference to how hard it is to compress the fork. Similarly if you tried to compress it hard/fast enough then it’ll be almost locked solid (known as spiking). Adjusting compression damping allow you to tune how much speed dependent it is – eg set it low and the amount of compression damping will not change significantly regardless of how fast you compress the fork. Set it up with a lot of damping and you’ll notice a big difference when hitting something hard/fast compared to hitting it slowly.

On that basis, you’d probably think that you want it set low all the time (to avoid spiking) but things are complicated by the fact that travel is limited (say to 100mm), meaning that the maximum size bump the fork can absorb is the same as the travel (assuming that the spring is set soft enough to absorb it). If you have no compression damping, when hitting a bigger bump (say 150mm), you’ll bottom out the fork once you’d got to 100m and then get a smack through the bars on the last 50mm. Adding in the right amount of compression damping would mean that on the bigger/faster impacts, you’d actually bottom out the fork still but only at a point where you absorb the 150mm impact so you’d feel a much smoother impact through the bars.

Similarly on trails with lots of drops, you could set your fork spring harder so that you only just bottom out but that would mean riding a harder fork on everything. By adding in compression damping, you can leave your spring rate softer and then use the compression damping to firm up the compression on the faster impacts (eg the dropoffs).

As with everything, it’s a bit of a compromise but damping can significantly improve the performance of your suspension if you get it right for what/how you’re riding.

Or you can just leave it where it is and not worry 🙂

Sooo, if I understand so far:

If I wind the dial in a bit, so as to increase the (low speed) damping, the fork will bob less when I’m stomping the pedals, but should still suck up the (high-speed) bumps?

Revs don’t really have independent high/low speed damping – though you could argue that depending on how you use the poploc (basically, leave it in the locked position and then adjust the poploc dial to release at whatever point you choose to damp out pedalling – which is basically what ‘propedal’ does) it does.

f I wind the dial in a bit, so as to increase the (low speed) damping, the fork will bob less when I’m stomping the pedals, but should still suck up the (high-speed) bumps?

Assuming that you’re talking about adjusting the RH compression damping (the one on the poploc), then, yes, more damping will reduce pedal bob and also make the fork relatively harder over bigger/faster impacts. Too much damping may mean that the fork spikes over fast stuff though.

If I wind the dial in a bit, so as to increase the (low speed) damping, the fork will bob less when I’m stomping the pedals, but should still suck up the (high-speed) bumps?

Kind of; turning the blue dial adjusts the size of a hole in the damper. This can be adjusted from fully counter clockwise (fully open hole) to fully clockwise (hole closed).

With a medium amount of this blue dial (LowSpeedCompression) set, you will get excellent performance whilst riding berms, braking, etc but the fork may not be able to let enough oil through the damper to handle bigger hits (this is called spiking). This is where HighSpeedCompression comes in.

As I said above, the only HSC adjustment available on MotionControl forks is the floodgate adjuster. You can open this almost fully (few clicks from fully anticlockwise) and if you hit a large bump, it will open up and allow more oil through the damper.

Thus, you can have a decent amount of LSC controlling the movement of the fork when not hitting bumps (eg bob, cornering, braking etc) and a different amount of HSC allowing the fork to actually move quickly enough to absorb bumps without spiking.

basically, leave it in the locked position and then adjust the poploc dial

Do you mean the Floodgate dial?

to release at whatever point you choose to damp out pedalling

Que?

Eeh, it were simpler in my day. And this was all fields…

As I said above, the only HSC adjustment available on MotionControl forks is the floodgate adjuster. You can open this almost fully (few clicks from fully anticlockwise) and if you hit a large bump, it will open up and allow more oil through the damper.

In practice though, the floodgate only activates if the compression is set to lockout or pretty near (ie lots of compression damping)

basically, leave it in the locked position and then adjust the poploc dial

Do you mean the Floodgate dial?

Lock out the fork (with your remote – or with lots of compression damping set with the blue dial either on the remote or on the fork leg if using a non-remote setup)
adjust the GOLD dial at the top of the fork so that the fork stays locked while pedalling but unlocks once you hit something sufficiently big.

Clear as mud? 🙂

FWIW, I don’t like that setup and prefer to use the lockout as a lockout (with the poploc adjusted so that the fork will move if I forget to unlock and hit something big) and adjust the compression damping with the blue dial only.

retro83 – it starts to come clear…

So if I do what you say, I assume that having the Floodgate nearly all the way open means that, when I have the forks locked out, they should still compress quite easily if I hit something biggish (not that I forget to unlock them at the top of descents, oh no…)

if you have the gold dial completely open, then locking with the remote basically makes no difference.

Gold = (External) Floodgate adjuster. Now I understand. I think.

Anyone want to buy some Revs, I’m going back to rigid 😉

So if I do what you say, I assume that having the Floodgate nearly all the way open means that, when I have the forks locked out, they should still compress quite easily if I hit something biggish (not that I forget to unlock them at the top of descents, oh no…)

Ha, well the setup I describe gives the best performance for the fork when not locked out, the floodgate will set be far too open to be useful when locked out.

However, all is not lost! With sufficient LSC, lockout is not required – the fork will bob very little but will still be active enough to absorb bumps.

if you have the gold dial completely open, then locking with the remote basically makes no difference.

Yes, it means that only the floodgate is controlling the compression (believe this is how TF recommend Pikes to be run these days?)

This thread just confirms that as I always thought damping adjustment and spring set up confuses almost everyone.

For what it is worth I run the forks that I have with minimal compression damping and not a lot of rebound damping ‘cos thats how I like them. I never bother with either of the two different forms of lockout I have on two different forks – poploc seems totally useless to me but as I sit and spin rather than stand on the pedals and mash to climb I never get troubled by bob despite running low damping.

I like a nice compliant fork.

I like a nice compliant fork.

Ditto though I’m suprised to hear that you like lots of rebound damping if you like that as it’ll tend to pack the fork unless you’re only riding well spaced single hits all the time.

I also like to be able to mash up a short climb/rise if I want to and that’s why I like the remote lever as it’s easy to flick on for the climb and then back off at the top.

Well, I was trying to keep it simple with my explanation, so everyone could understand and make their own adjustments, but Clubber’s steamed in and baffled everyone…..
😉

K.I.S.S……

Cluber – I tried to type “not a lot of” but missed the “o” out
Edited now

Clubber:

Or you can just leave it where it is and not worry 🙂

That was my concession to KISS…

Besides, PP, you’re the one who made the good point that the best way to get the best out of your suspension is to understand it. KISS is great so long as it’s still accurate… The fact is that damping with its speed dependence isn’t as simple to understand as straightforward springs, etc…

😛

minor point,

less skill generaly requires lower spring rates and damping. Faster/more skilled riders will use higher spring rates and damping, thats becuse they tend to hit things faster and either absorb it themselves or the speed they’r moving produces more force.

And your personal preferance comes into play, Sam Hill runs a low spring rate and high damping, the result is that once he’s moving the suspension sits at its sag point, whne he’s stoped it appears to sag too much.

I run mine under sprung and under damped, its just the way i like it. Might dissasemble my magura forks and add a shimmed port to the compression damper, so the lockout acts more like a propedal for trail centers (opening up for brakig bumps, closing for berms) as at the moment it can spike over fast big hits (middle of section 13 at cannock, in the dry, after a lot of trafic for eg)

Still set it up with the same dials though, and with the same process.

1)Set correct sag with spring or air pressure
2)Feels harsh? More rebound/Less compression*
3)Feels wallowy? Less rebound/More compression*

Job jobbed. Leave dials alone for next 4 years.
😀

*Emphasis on the rebound, makes more difference, IME

Have a nice cup of tea and watch this video of Timmy explaining everything.

This is very useful and interesting

But back to Recon 335 or other forks with only the blue dial (in case I end up buying some)

This just adjusts the size of a hole (port) controlling compression damping. Turn it all the way and the hole is shut and the fork is looked?

Or is it setting the force required to open the port? The threshold for the lock out to release

It sounds to me that A pop lock is actually more controllable. You can set the amount of damping and amount need for it to blow off.

Thats what makes a 351 recon better than a 335?

Sorry for asking again but I’m trying to learn

I basically run my Pikes the same as clubber describes, although I don’t use the lock out. I don’t run any compression lock or floodgate for normal riding, but they are pushed.

The only time I change the setting is to ‘fully’ lock the compression damping, with the floodgate about a third of a turn it. Its still fairly compliant but plunges markedly less. I use this setting for steep, technical descents where speed is low and compressions are deep (i.e dropping off-roots and rocks). It gives the bike more stability by controlling the bob and dive. It helps to remove the full suss alternating front/rear pogo effect you can get in these circumstances.

The only time I change the setting is to ‘fully’ lock the compression damping, with the floodgate about a third of a turn it. Its still fairly compliant but plunges markedly less. I use this setting for steep, technical descents where speed is low and compressions are deep (i.e dropping off-roots and rocks). It gives the bike more stability by controlling the bob and dive. It helps to remove the full suss alternating front/rear pogo effect you can get in these circumstances.

This is similar to my setup which I use all the time, except I have the blue dial set to about 40% clockwise, not fully locked. Sounds like the result is pretty similar – controlled fork movement but still fully active on bumps.

Yeah, pretty similar I’d say.

I don’t run it all the time like that, because it can make the fork feel a bit constipated during regular riding, especially of fast stuttery stuff.

TBH, now I’ve had them pushed, I use it less that I did. With the push damping, I seem to run them with more sag (static) but dynamically when riding, they sit at the right level. My weight is being held up more by the damping so to speak.