• This topic has 105 replies, 57 voices, and was last updated 2 days ago by Daffy.
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  • Why no electric estate cars?
  • Premier Icon tlr
    Subscriber

    As far as I know there are no full electric estate cars currently available. There are a handful of phev cars like the Paasat, but for a full ev there are only small cars, a couple of saloons and an increasing number of SUVs.

    Is it because the UK is odd in its love of estates so the market isn’t big enough?

    I see far more A4 and A6 estates than saloons, and plenty of Passats, Mondeos, 5 Series, 3 Series, E Class and C Class.

    Any ideas?

    mattyfez
    Member

    Estates might be practical but I guess the trend is on full on fwd Chelsea tractors or compacts.

    Maybe it will happen eventually.

    aP
    Member

    Most car companies are really only interested in the US and China. Those markets don’t buy estates.

    Premier Icon tlr
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    I had seen that Kia, but that’s a small car or small SUV crossover type thing. It’s much smaller than A6/5/E/Mondeo.

    Supposed to be good for what it is though.

    Premier Icon dirkpitt74
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    Yeah someone needs to do one.
    Was hoping Hyundai would do the i40 estate as an EV instead of just the Ioniq.

    Premier Icon welshfarmer
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    I have always had estates. When I lived in Germany at the turn of the century ( 🙂 ) I reckon 8 out of 10 cars on the roads there were estate cars. I have never understood the fascination with saloon cars in the UK, and the hatchback is worse than either a saloon or an estate.

    dc1988
    Member

    SUV’s are the go to car at the moment, estates are definitely not cool.

    Premier Icon dirkpitt74
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    SUV’s are the go to car at the moment, estates are definitely not cool.

    But the boot space on an SUV is crap….

    Premier Icon breadcrumb
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    3 series saloons are ten a penny, took me ages to find the right estate/tourer/wagon.

    To me for practicality

    Estate > Hatch > Saloon

    I’m in time we’ll see EV versions of all platforms.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Member

    Most car companies are really only interested in the US and China. Those markets don’t buy estates.

    This is what’s driving the market. So manufacturers are dispensing with the costly RnD and plumbing for what will sell.

    SUV’s.

    Its really that simple.

    But not everyone wants nor needs an estate space-wise, so SUV’s are just jacked up Hatch-backs without the Hatch-back tag.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    It’s simple.

    Estates have a low load space and you can increase the load space putting seats down.

    All current EV/hybrids are currently based on existing chassis so boot space is smaller to accommodate batteries. Would look odd in an estate having the boot space smaller.

    I’d imagine Tesla are not making an estate at the minute as the market is more limited

    BearBack
    Member

    null

    Premier Icon CountZero
    Subscriber

    I have never understood the fascination with saloon cars in the UK, and the hatchback is worse than either a saloon or an estate.

    There are far more hatchbacks around than saloons, it’s just that most hatches look like saloons, the Octavia for one example. At work we regularly have between 2-3000 cars on site, only a small percentage are saloons*.
    There is a very good reason for the popularity of SUV/crossovers – many people, me for one, really begin to struggle getting in and out of low-slung saloon cars, the raised heigh of an SUV and its seating just makes getting in and out so much easier, plus they’re often somewhat shorter than a saloon/hatchback which makes parking easier.
    *Usually BMW or Mercedes. All SUV/crossovers are hatchbacks by definition, just taller, although a Ford C-Max is the same height as a Qashqai, more or less.
    I do find it odd that people will make disparaging comments about SUV’s, yet get very excited about owning a T4 or 5, or even a Berlingo which is at least the same size as most SUV’s

    rsl1
    Member

    For estates you would expect long range – this makes battery packaging difficult. Makes most sense to put it under the floor. This lends itself to high roofed shapes like the i-pace and model x rather than long and low estates

    Premier Icon fatmax
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    What’s that nice looking green car?

    Premier Icon doomanic
    Subscriber

    Tesla concept car at a guess.

    Waderider
    Member

    I get to drive an e-Niro in work, it’s pokey. Not an estate though.

    And SUVs are not cool, don’t confuse commonly desirable with cool. They’re simply the family car of choice for our era. Mind you, if I had family the last thing I’d want is a car whose form works against it’s environmental credentials (bad for the kids future), means you have less space for carting stuff, and performs less well in a crash.

    On topic – I’d like my next car to be an electric estate car. Volvo, get it together please or this time I’m buying something else.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Until 12 months ago you could probably count the realistic EV options on one hand. Even now, if you want an EV in a sensible timescale your options are still fairly limited (lots announced, due sometime 2020 etc) I don’t think an estate is going to be high on anyone’s priority list, if anything they need to focus on bringing more commercial EV vans / lorries /buses of various sizes to market. Get the big dirty commercial diesels off the roads.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    The Tesla estates above are handmade from the Model S after market cut ups. Green one is by a Co run by a Dutch guy, blue one was a one off I believe by / for a guy who wanted more space for his dogs.

    Premier Icon alpin
    Subscriber

    Is it because the UK is odd in its love of estates so the market isn’t big enough?

    Have you driven through Europe recently?

    Just about all my German colleagues have estates. In fact I can’t think of one of my close circle that drives a saloon.

    yet get very excited about owning a T4 or 5, or even a Berlingo which is at least the same size as most SUV’s

    Yeah, but with a ton more load space and lots more practicality.

    When the GF was looking for a commuter we wanted a two seater. Looked at the tesla roadster, but due to cost ended up with an mx5.

    Premier Icon dmorts
    Subscriber

    Comparing the boot space of the PHEV Skoda Octavia Estate with a Petrol version shows batteries really eat into the boot space. The PHEV has a 34 mile electric-only range. Full electric might mean no boot at all!

    I fancy a Skoda Superb Estate PHEV but the boot isn’t actually that much bigger than our current petrol Seat Leon ST.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Just occured to me that the Sono Sion could possibly claim to be a small estate.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    PHEVs only exist as a tax dodge. Fundamentally flawed in engineering terms. They are a bit like having a diesel car with a little petrol engine and fuel tank as well, just in case there’s no diesel available when you go somewhere.

    Go BEV or go home 😉

    Premier Icon dmorts
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    A PHEV could get me to work and back on the quoted Electric-only range… not sure at what speed that would be though

    Premier Icon oldtennisshoes
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    I’d rather have a pickup

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    Lots of electric SUVs also because the packaging is easier for batteries, I suspect.

    VWs new range is EV specific platform.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Member

    have never understood the fascination with saloon cars in the UK, and the hatchback is worse than either a saloon or an estate.

    Well Ford announced they’ve stopped making Saloon cars… Why? Well they don’t sell.

    Premier Icon GavinB
    Subscriber

    Test drove an e-Niro at the weekend, and was really impressed with it – very smooth and pretty nippy. The move from my current car, a Mazda 6 estate would need a bit of adjustment though.

    Not looking at any of the hybrids for the reasons already stated above – they are a tax dodge.

    retro83
    Member

    bikebouy

    Subscriber

    have never understood the fascination with saloon cars in the UK, and the hatchback is worse than either a saloon or an estate.

    Well Ford announced they’ve stopped making Saloon cars… Why? Well they don’t sell.

    Mondeos don’t sell, there are a still metric shit-tonne of premium saloons clogging up the right hand lane on the motorway.

    Premier Icon Rio
    Subscriber

    Estate cars don’t seem to be a thing any more outside Europe, and as most EVs are aimed at the US and China markets I can see why people aren’t making them. At the moment EVs are a niche product, and estate cars are a niche product, so your wondering why someone doesn’t address a niche of a niche…

    I don’t buy the battery packaging argument – a model S is a hatchback and could (or can – see pics earlier in the thread) easily be built as an estate, but that’s not what the US market wants. I would guess the same applies to the Model 3. Even the German vapour-ware doesn’t seem to include estates.

    Premier Icon footflaps
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    Test drove an e-Niro at the weekend, and was really impressed with it – very smooth and pretty nippy. The move from my current car, a Mazda 6 estate would need a bit of adjustment though.

    Brilliant cars, just shame about the very long waiting list….

    Partly, I’ve been told, as they make a loss on every one sold, so aren’t too keen on selling that many.

    munrobiker
    Member

    The thing that keeps being mentioned every time a new electric SUV is announced is that because storing batteries under the floor in full BEVs is the easiest way to make more boot space, the profile of the car ends up being raised and as people seem to want SUVs they end up getting designed to look like one.

    It’s a shame really – for me, hatchbacks are king (usable load space, but small and more fuel efficient and use less materials to make. You don’t really NEED and estate, you just want one to make it marginally easier to put a bike in the back), saloons pointless (why take up so much road space for such a small boot?) and SUVs are just an obnoxious waste of the world’s resources for the sake of sitting 4″ higher up. But estates are the sensible option if you genuinely need more space, and they should be more widely available than SUVs once full electric cars become more popular – surely their lower profile would improve battery life?

    Sadly, the world is consumed by SUVs. In America these days the only estate that shifts is the Audi A4 Allroad, everything else sells in the low 4 figures.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    You don’t really NEED and estate

    Estates are barely less efficient than saloons, if at all, but can carry a lot more stuff and hence fill a lot more roles. If the choice is between an SUV or minivan or estate, the estate is the most efficient choice.

    Edukator
    Member

    The BMW i3 and Zoé both have drag coefficients of 0.29 despite being ‘4″ higher up’ due to under-floor battteries. The boot space is no worse than a normal hatch.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Not looking at any of the hybrids for the reasons already stated above – they are a tax dodge.

    If you mean BIK, then not anymore. Next year, full EVs will become the new tax dodge, if it bothers you that much. 😉

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Comparing the boot space of the PHEV Skoda Octavia Estate with a Petrol version shows batteries really eat into the boot space. The PHEV has a 34 mile electric-only range. Full electric might mean no boot at all!

    Dmorts, you need to explain your logic.
    Shirley Full electric means no engine / radiator, gearbox / transmission tunnel, petrol tank, allowance for clearance of exhaust / cat. All these things a PHEV still needs (plus a battery).
    The new EV platform VW ID3 has the outer dimensions of a golf and inner space of a Passat, because they can push the wheels to the four corners and use engine bay space and no transmission tunnel. Batteries are basically the floor pan. Look up skateboard platform. But even if you were just talking about bodged EVs like the e-golf (using an ICE design and cramming batteries in it), they can presumably use engine / fuel tank space for batteries.

    Premier Icon GavinB
    Subscriber

    Next year, full EVs will become the new tax dodge, if it bothers you that much.

    Oops, forgot about that, you’re correct.

    We are still a long way behind when it comes to incentivising zero-emission though, particularly when compared to, say Norway.

    https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    The new EV platform VW ID3 has the outer dimensions of a golf and inner space of a Passat, because they can push the wheels to the four corners and use engine bay space and no transmission tunnel. Batteries are basically the floor pan. Look up skateboard platform. But even if you were just talking about bodged EVs like the e-golf (using an ICE design and cramming batteries in it), they can presumably use engine / fuel tank space for batteries.

    Still needs Electric motors, two on performance models, each is about the size of the ICE’s gearbox. Still needs “axles”, differentials, steering gear, cooling, etc.

    The batteries fit in the floor, but you then need to raise the floor by ~200mm or so. Which works better in SUV’s and people carrier shapes than ‘cars’. For example my c-max already has a 6″ deep void in the floor with some storage etc. Presumably because the floor is the Focus platform and then an inner floor is added on top creating the void.

    I suspect that however much you tried you would struggle to get the traditional estate flat boot/rear seat arrangement in an EV unless you lifted the whole thing up 200mm. Which is pretty much how you turn a Volvo V90 into an XC90.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Member

    What’s that nice looking green car?

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

    Looks like one of disastrous Aston Shooting Brake jobbies from the early 80’s.

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