[Closed] Why is 2x10 considered an improvment on 3x9?

Would be interesting to know..

Meh, the marketing men are driving everything, once they've run out of ways to improve 9spd they just lop a chainring off and start all over, its why we've got electric shifting, office chair technology on our seat posts, extendable handlebars etc etc etc

Just ignore it, whats important (to me) is that my new bike came with 2x10 and quite frankly, I didn't notice a difference, in fact, I think it might be a slight improvement. The two rings up front overlap in such a way that you're not constantly shifting all the time, its basically wee ring for the uphills, big ring for the flat and the downhills, you can practically use the whole cassette from both rings as the chainline is better.

36 teeth cassettes? For me that's the big benifit.

my new bike came with 2x10 and quite frankly, I didn't notice a difference,

I've run a mixture of 3x8 and 3x9 bikes over the past few years. I find the rear indexing on 8 speed both easier to set up and less likely to go out of adjustment than 9 speed.

Just out of curiosity as I'm not in the market for a new bike right now is 10 speed harder to set up and keep indexed than 9 speed?

For me at least

- All the gear range I actually use on my mtb
- more chainring clearance

I won't be going back to triples unless it's for an mtb I do a lot of road miles on which is unlikely as I have road and cx bikes for that...

irc. I don't think so. I honestly haven't touched the adjusters on my Shimano XT shifters in a year. I wrote a few words on the XT stuff and how it lasted, it's on my website, under "gear reviews", if you want. The basic conclusion for me was shimano xt 10 speed has been good to me. The SRAM X9 was a disaster for me.

36 teeth cassettes? For me that's the big benifit

I demo'ed a Remedy with 2x10.

Very impressed by both the quality (and it wasn't just because it was X0, as my bike runs XTR) of front shifting and the ability to use any of the rear gears with either of the front.

No way would I throw away my 3x9 for 2x10, but if I was buying a new bike I'd look for it.

Also you probably need a bit of fitness as the lowest gear in 2x10 (with a 36 rear) is not as low as 3x9 (with a 34 rear).

It seems no one wants to go fast off road anymore. I still running 46 on the front...

A lot of replies about shifters and indexing, but all things inc fitness being the same surely having to shift chainrings halfway through the gear progression is a hinderance?

so you spin out 46x11? Really?....

I find the rear indexing on 8 speed both easier to set up and less likely to go out of adjustment than 9 speed.

Just out of curiosity as I'm not in the market for a new bike right now is 10 speed harder to set up and keep indexed than 9 speed?

Never had a problem setting up 6, 7, 8 or 9spd gears. oh well.

As for why go 2x9/10 front shifts are what tend to break chains, front shifts are never as clean as rear shifts, on the basis that you shouldn't be using the cross over gears anyway you aren't losing that many gears in the middle, there is the detail that with three rings there is a lot of duplication going on. with a 2 ring setup you lose a couple of gears, if you don't use the very extremes why not.

Having thought about it i could probably go 1x10 quite happily if i didn't have to get off road by riding on the road and if hope ever release there 9 tooth sprocket i suspect most of my concerns would go away.

"36 teeth cassettes? For me that's the big benifit"
But you can get 36t 9spd casettes?
I believe they were originally released for 29"ers to replicate a 32T casette on a 26"er

IIRC Shimano triple ring 10spd chainsets use a 24T granny ring, 9spd use 22T. A 22-34 combo is a lower gear than 24-36T
SRAM and others use a 22T granny on 10spd cranks, but again, there are 36toothed 9spd casettes

There is/was a 20T granny ring for some middleburn chainsets if you want even lower?

as above, you use big for most stuff and small for steep or long climbs. ime I actually shift less at the front now.

I run a 46 chainring and use it - a lot - mostly on road but off road as well. I'm not lucky enough to be able to avoid a fair few road miles to get to the best stuff. And on holidays to real mountains, high gearing is very handy - on and off road.

I'm sticking with 3x9 (indeed 3x8 on the bikes used in mud a lot) - and rapid rise XTR mechs - which, unavailable in 10sp, will keep me in 8/9 speed for some time yet as I hate normal rear mechs!

Don't think it makes any performance difference really, unless you're a particular gear ratio fetishist. Lower entropy though, innit, so that's good.
There'd be no way I'd switch an existing set up over, but I have 2x10 on a new bike and am happy with it.
As a few people mentioned on the other thread, 1 x n is a bigger switch and can be a noticeable improvement depending on your type of riding.

It seems no one wants to go fast off road anymore. I still running 46 on the front...

46x11, that is some gear, at around 100rpm, which is quick but not anywhere near stupid your getting on for 40mph. a 40x11 will get you comfortably over 30mph. How often do you need a gear that big?

fitness being the same surely having to shift chainrings halfway through the gear progression is a hinderance?

Well... not really, see what I wrote above. Small ring for the climbs, maybe start shifting down the cassette as you pick up speed or the terrain levels out, then stick it in the big ring till you hit another significant climb. In a way, you having to shift from the little ring, to the middle ring, to the big ring, would be more of a hindrance, if you actually consider shifting a gear a hindrance that is (maybe in the middle of a bunch sprint, yes...)

Flap Jack, I don't know where I would spin out a 46x11 gear, so few of my rides feature long fast descents. Singletrack, technical/steep descents, masses of mud and bogs 🙁 perhaps, but nowhere I'd need a 46, in fact, before I got a 2x10 bike I'd pre-empted 'Dyna-Sys' and gone down to a 42 tooth chainring anyway.

maybe my attitude is coloured by the detail that when i started out granny was 24x28, and that didn't seem to be a problem for anyone.

Guess ive bucked the trend, I've just ditched 1x9 in favour of 3x9. Curse my pathetic legs and lungs! And general fitness...:-S

I guess it was aimed at xc racers initially to narrow the q factor more like road bikes and then pave the way for bigger wheels just like road bikes.
The next big thing in mtb is drop bars.

Shhh, don't tell the cool kids who already run drops, it'll take away 1 of their precious niches....

Flap Jack, I don't know where I would spin out a 46x11 gear,

Into Les Linderets, you can hit over 75 kmph on the PassPortes heh heh. Just watch out for the large drainage channel...

flap_jack - Member
Flap Jack, I don't know where I would spin out a 46x11 gear,
Into Les Linderets, you can hit over 75 kmph on the PassPortes heh heh. Just watch out for the large drainage channel...

But why would you take the wide fire road when you can take the kick ass descent off to the left with its steep vertigo inducing switchbacks??

I'll tell you why for one reason - buying a Deore touring chainset (26, 36, 48) and selling the big ring is actually cheaper than buying three new chainrings for my XT chainset, and comes in lighter to boot, with nice long lasting steel rings. The Deore cranks went on my singlespeed and the chainrings onto the XT cranks on my Five. With a 11-34t 9 speed rear, it has a reasonable range as well - good enough, as they say. I rarely need the granny. When and if my rear mech or shifter conks out, I'll think about 2x10. but that might take a while.

As Mrmo said, it used to be 24x28, and that worked fine. 🙂

You can run a bashring and avoid laceration.

If I was building a new mountan bike I would build a 2x9 not a 2x10 as it cheaper and off all the same benefits. As ride single speeds which are even cheaper so I won't be building a 2x9 anythime soon. Unless I find a stash of cash then I will build a 29'er with a 2x10 set up.

forcing me to do a chainring shift to access either end of my previously easily accesible ratios?

the way i see it, granny ring - uphills, middle - flat, big - downhill, i then use the cassette to trim the gearing. with 2 up front if you run out of gears on the little cog, you shift up on the front but then have to shift the chain right the way across the cassette to get the gear you want (does that make sense, its late...)

also if anyone can point me in the direction of a ramped 40 tooth cog for the front i would be very grateful.

also if anyone can point me in the direction of a ramped 40 tooth cog for the front i would be very grateful.

My TA 40 tooth ring has ramps on it.

I'm still running a 26/36/46 XTR M952 front setup and can honestly say I barely even use the middle ring, let alone he granny.

I don't often spin it out, but I prefer to push a bigger gear (probably a result of SSing a lot) on the climbs, for most of the riding I do locally and the trails at Afan/Cwmcarn it's big ring all the way.

I know I shouldn't be that far up the cassette in the big ring cos of the chain angle etc, but I prefer the feel in the big ring, and my bike has horrible feedback in anything smaller than 36tooth, and I'm still only on the 2nd set of chainrings on that crank and the cassette is nearly 2 years old so wear hasn't been an issue.

Every 2x something setup I have tried has felt really under geared in the outer ring, and the rare times I do go for the granny it's cos it's mental steep or I'm knackered so I like having a proper granny instead of a 'slightly small middle ring', so for me 2 ring setups don't really work at all.

I have a 2x9 setup, as I've never got round to buying a granny ring & haven't really missed it (except on one or two particularly steep climbs).

I can't imagine what benefit a 10-speed cassette would give me. Maybe I would if I tried one, but I've no complaints about the ratios available from my 11-34 combined with 36/46T chainrings.

Not a lot of my riding is very steep or slow/technical so I can get away with the above.

nail > head. this is why im sticking 3x9.

But that's personal - I found I shifted far more with a triple, which was why I went 2x9.

I don't often spin it out, but I prefer to push a bigger gear (probably a result of SSing a lot) on the climbs, for most of the riding I do locally and the trails at Afan/Cwmcarn it's big ring all the way.

**swoons**

You hero! I assume you race? As you need higher gears than any world cup XC racer you must be rather handy!

As I understand it you can use the whole cassette in either chainring on a 2x10 set up and you have just as many unique ratios as a 3x9 set up.

Willing to be proved wrong on both counts though!

**swoons**

You hero! I assume you race? As you need higher gears than any world cup XC racer you must be rather handy!

no, I'm not even that quick. I'm just not a spinner and prefer to push a bigger gear at a lower cadence even when going at the same pace as the guy next to me in the middle ring at a higher cadence.

It's not a boasting thing. I never said I *needed* massive gears due to speed, they just suit the way I ride better, and see comment about feedback on my bike with small chainrings, I'm normally up at the top of the cassette so in the same actual gear as most people in middle ring.

thinking about it, I am probably a perfect candidate for 2 ring setup, It's just that the two rings I would want are 44 or 46 as the outer and 24 or 26 as the inner, and I don't think it would shift that well with that setup...

I'm normally up at the top of the cassette so [s]in the same actual gear as most people in middle ring.[/s] really buggering my chain line, and would be far better with a double

If you're sat at the top of the block why do you need the 46, I don't get that 😕

Even on the road a 42/11 is a pretty reasonable gear. I used to use the M952 26/36/48, but wouldn't even consider that now!

46 because that what the cranks come with, 42 or 44 would be fine but
that's not the chainring I have. Top of block when climbing, still cruise around the middle of the block.

You keep ignoring my comment about the bike too, it feels awful in the middle ring.

Like I said, I probably would be better off with a double, just not in the ratios that they offer.

A 44/24 double would suit me down to the ground. I could happily ride most of the time on the big ring, but I could bail out to the granny when I need to.

Ignoring chainline for a moment, I'd much rather be riding the 44front 18 - 26 area of the cassette than 32front 14 - 18 area of the cassette as it suits my bike better and I get more chain wrap and less wear.

And buggering my chainline I may be, but I don't have problems with skipping gears, snapped chains or wear so I'll carry on riding in the gear that suits me and my bike thanks 🙂

A 44/24 double would suit me down to the ground. I could happily ride most of the time on the big ring, but I could bail out to the granny when I need to.

Fair enough, sounds very odd - to go from being able to ride everything on a 46 to wanting a 24, each to their own!

I'd have thought you'd find everything much nicer with a 27/42 or 26/42, which will be fine (the latter maybe a little rough on the shift), or 28/42 if you want off the shelf. Chain line would be far better and you've have access to the whole cassette.

I can see why you'd not want a 22/36 which many people use, neither would I!

I can see why you'd not want a 22/36 which many people use, neither would I!

Yeah same here 36 is too big 😉

Fair enough, sounds very odd - to go from being able to ride everything on a 46 to wanting a 24, each to their own!

I know it's a bit of an odd requirement, like I said, I barely move out of the big ring on most rides but on the very steeps and when I'm knackered I would like the bail out option which is why I've not gone single ring.

I've not tried an 11-36 rear cassette, only 11-34 so you might be right with 26/42 if I got a 36 tooth cassette as well it could work, but I'm loathe the replace perfectly good cranks and cassette when they still have loads of life in them... maybe in a few years when I can't get spares any more!

my hardtails are all SS at the moment, but I'd never run into the stupid feedback problem there so maybe I should experiment a bit more at some point

Hold on - so you ride big ring all the way up the White's climb? Honestly? you must have ****ing massive legs then as I have 18 or so inch thighs and I still have to use the granny on the way up there (admittedly that may be more to do with my paltry lung capacity but still).

Honestly? yes, I do whites climb in the big ring, have done the whole of skyline in big ring too, and no I don't have massive legs and I am NOT some super racer god, I'm just an idiot who prefers low cadence standing to spinning.

To be fair, I can ride the White's climb in the big ring, not really about your thigh size is it? That's more about power, and just adds weight.

I'll wager Chris Hoy's thighs are far bigger than Contador, but I know who I'd back as the stronger climber...

Depends on the length of the climb 🙂

And the gradient.

100m 1% climb I'll go Hoy
100m 20% climb I'll go Contador 🙂