Why do we need water cannons ?

Does the government know something we don’t ?

Surly by having these it will entice trouble ?

We’ve been okay without them ?

Are we becoming a more violent nation ?

Zombies…end of thread

Yes.

No….and I think you mean provoke, rather than entice.

NI has had them for ages.

You spill my pint?

Because the peasants are revolting.

After the last lot of riots, the police said “Water cannons would have been no use anyway” so Theresa May said “Righto, let’s get tons of water cannons”

It’s to disperse all the homeless that will be milling about looking for a spot to shelter for the night

Because bass cannons are sooo 90’s.

Saying that, so were these, yet they seem to be making a comeback.

To disperse the crowds

Note that this is Boris that’s bought the cannon. The government told him he couldn’t have one.

What a lovely chap. I used to think he was a bit charming with his funny haircut and bumbling ways.

Of course, now I realise he’s actually a tory elitist ****.

Have they changed the law? Thought water cannons where illegal to use without passing special powers? Why we only see in Ireland?

Boris just wants to out-do Bristol.

its to use on oxfam because according to some tory **** they are only meant to worry about poor people in foreign countries
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27783331

“Most of us operated under the illusion that Oxfam’s focus was on the relief of poverty and famine overseas.

More importantly, why do the BBC always talk about them as “water cannon” even when there is more than one?

PS I’d love to have a go in one. Preferably on the local chavs.

Or perhaps he wants to build himself one of these:

(true story) borris bought the cannon because germany only had them on sale at that price till the end of july

and theresa may was gonna rubberstamp the approval anyway

Thanks for sharing that Yunki. Signed.

There’s no law IFAIK, but it’s a really bad idea.

Hot_fiat, where did you find that Anonymous pic? I’ve been trying to track down a better quality version of the low-ish res one I have.

Question, in the event of large scale rioting and disorder, as we saw a couple of years ago, does anyone think that twatting people with sticks is a better way to keep the peace?

I figure Boris has decided that he need’s water cannons because when the mass majority of us so called minions (working class/low paid) finally decide to band together and say “fu-k you, i won’t do as you tell me” (™ – Rage Against The Machine) , organise our own uprising (caucasion spring anyone?) against the ruling elite without applying to the Met police for a licence to protest beforehand then he can sit back and play the blundering buffon as usual whilst surreptitiously ordering the introduction of martial law and curfews in our major cities.

Oh i wish…..If only i won hundreds of millions (*) on the euro lottery then i’d give the political elite something to worry about.

* not much chance of that – never bought a lottery ticket so i’ll carry on moaning and bitching whilst doing absolutely nothing about the current situation………..or will i?……… 😉

ninfan – Member

Question, in the event of large scale rioting and disorder, as we saw a couple of years ago, does anyone think that twatting people with sticks is a better way to keep the peace?

Met Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, one of the people calling for water cannons, says they’d have been no use in 2011 so yeah.

It’s the same theory as Trident, spend a shed load of money on something you assume your enemy is terrified of (in this case your own people) that you have no intention of ever using in anger.

because when the mass majority of us so called minions finally decide to band together and say “fu-k you, i won’t do as you tell me”, organise our own uprising against the ruling elite

Yes, thats what we saw – there’s clearly no better way to strike back at the ruling elite than by stealing a new telly and a pair of trainers

Fight the power!

A little reminder – the police have had stores full with Baton rounds and CS gas for riot control since 1986, and they can be deployed to the police by the evil government against the wishes of the local police authority… How many times have they been used?

There is a clear and definable difference between looting (as you pointed out above) and our current need to radically change our current electoral system with it’s institutional bred ruling elite that panders to it’s own desires.

I’ve been on the receiving end of so called “soft policing polices” back in the early rave days, no tear/cs gas as such but full riot gear for a few thousand happy revellers in a field, well it was actually my GF at the time who was on the end of it (so to speak) as she received a broken jaw thanks to an over zealous police baton as she ran towards a crowd of 100+ fully geared up riot police with her arms open trying to get them to stand down – needless to say they didn’t stand down and charged us – i’m glad to say (with a sneer on my face as i type this) i managed to get that policeman on his own for a few seconds.

As as for the Reeves furniture store fire?, i know Trevor Reeves through the VW Mk2 Golf scene and what happened was despicable and totally uncalled for – do you really think a water cannon would have made the slightest difference?.

Yes, thats what we saw – there’s clearly no better way to strike back at the ruling elite than by stealing a new telly and a pair of trainers

Damn right! And don’t forget torching the carpet and furniture store; clearly a bastion of the hated ruling elite. Fight the Power!

Somafunk, Yes, there is a difference

So why jump up and down suggesting that the purchase of water cannon is anything to do with some fantasy popular peoples uprising against the state, rather than a repeat of the more mundane and much more likely outbreak of mob violence and greed that we saw last time?

As for the plod who don’t think they would have been of use, Sir Hugh Orde, president of ACPO, (whatever your feelings on ACPO) said: “There is a gap in the armoury in England and Wales which could be filled by the availability of water cannon. Orde, formerly chief constable in Northern Ireland, who was speaking before the London Assembly, added: “I understand the sensitivity of this, I’ve worked with these things for seven years, but because of the way we used them, it didn’t damage confidence in policing in the long term.”

as for whether they would have made a difference in 2011 – One thing I remember about the reeves store fire was that the with firefighters were unable to tackle the blaze because police could not protect them,

The police, and the government, have a duty to keep the peace, when they fail in this duty (either through lack or resources or timidity in deploying the resources already available to them) bad things happen, people die, factories and businesses and houses get burned down. The £200k spent on water cannon is dwarfed by the £75 million bill that the police got handed to replace the Sony warehouse that got destroyed (riot damages come out of the public purse!)

No one here can justify the looting and wanton destruction seen in the roots last time round
But let’s face it they are a direct result of our greed is good consumer culture given the spark of another police shoiting by a force no one trusts whether it’s too open a gate for you as you cycle home from work not to execute you on the tube or try and dig dirt on the mother of a murdered teenager
Cuts to youth services ended up costing a lot more than they saved that summer.
Seems like boris and co have a plan to deal with rioting but not the sense to alleviate the causes

The police have a duty to protect us all, not to maintain the wishes and orders of a ruling elite to prevent peaceful protest – are you really that naive to believe that the next time we have a mass protest (hopefully carried out peacefully and without looting) in this country that the water cannons will be left behind in the barracks?, look how many protested against the Iraq war? – look at what’s currently happening to Iraq in the news today? – whether or not you agree with me, we allowed this to happen………. I guarantee you that the epicentre of the next major protest will feature water cannons being brought out to intimidate legitimate actions. We have a right to protest without fear of intimidation, whether that be by direct police action, perhaps by corralling, deployment of riot police or now by threat of water cannon.

To quote “Malcolm Tucker” 😉

“We are through the looking glass now, folks.”

are you really that naive to believe that the next time we have a mass protest in this country that the water cannons will be left behind in the barracks?

On that basis, how come they haven’t used the Baton rounds and CS gas that they’ve had for nigh on thirty years?

ninfan speaks sense. Most of the rest on this thread would object to any non-lethal capability at the disposal of the law enforcement agencies.

I like those postulating on the escalation of use. There are far bigger threats to your health and liberty out there than a few mobile water cannon and yet you ponder on the rules of engagement for something that hasn’t happened yet. They have been used for years in NI and aren’t wheeled out every Friday night no matter how worried you are.

Rubber bullets are better for dispersing mobs.

Anyhow, why are the Lego riot-gear police all grinning?!

“Approval was given for the purchase by the deputy mayor for policing. The cost will be £218,000 and the mayor justifies the speed of purchase by saying the water cannon are needed in case of disorder this summer in London.

The document says: “Purchasing at this time considerably improves the possibility that the Metropolitan police would have the tool to deploy in the summer, when, although there are no expectations of violence, such tools are most likely to be needed

Eh?….what exactly are we expecting to happen this summer?, perhaps austerity measures are due to ramped up?, as they say there is no expectation of the need for deployment but i for one do not trust the Met police.

If (and it’s a big IF) the Met ever deploy them in force then i hope they are very careful in their aim, eyeballs are particularly susceptible to rupture when hit by water cannons.

Dietrich Wagners testimony to the people of Britain

More importantly, why do the BBC always talk about them as “water cannon” even when there is more than one?

Cannon is plural as well as singular.

Hugh Orde, president of ACPO, (whatever your feelings on ACPO)

Why would one ignore one’s opinion of ACPO when considering its president’s musings?

Most of the rest on this thread would object to any non-lethal capability at the disposal of the law enforcement agencies.

Capability there is a euphemism for weapons, and there is no such thing as non-lethal weapons, only less lethal weapons.

On that basis, how come they haven’t used the Baton rounds and CS gas that they’ve had for nigh on thirty years?

Why is a water cannon likely to be any more useful than these (supposedly-existing) rubber-coated bullets and tear gas in suppressing public disorder when those other two weapons haven’t been useful in three decades?

Eh?….what exactly are we expecting to happen this summer?

Nothing in particular other than maybe some good weather. The only thing that quelled the riots in 2011 was it started raining. Bloody fair weather hoodlums.

because germany only had them on sale

Maybe we’re looking at this from the wrong angle… given the nature of this wretched administration, perhaps this is nothing to do with the riot polis. The three water cannon could = a new “streamlined” London Fire Brigade – perhaps operated by Serco or G4S & maintained via a 30 year PFI contract that vastly exceeds the actual value of said assets.

Stupider things have happened – and, indeed, are happening. 🙄

andyrm – Member

More importantly, why do the BBC always talk about them as “water cannon” even when there is more than one?

apologies, my irony detector is set to low this morning, i’ll assume you asked a genuine question…

it’s because the plural of cannon, is cannon.

1 sheep, 2 sheep, etc.

in answer to the other question, it’s because lots of tories don’t like Dave, they think he’s too nice. They’re beginning to posture behind him as potential leaders, Boris wants to win over the ukip voters with news footage of the ‘Boris-Cannon’ nailing protesters in the face.

He’s got the Cannon, now all he has to do is stir up some protests…

thanks to bearnecessities…

all i can hear in my head is “let the bass cannon kick it….” Flux Pavillion.

twelve bloody hours now

As a law abiding member of the public, the Police can have what they feel they need to protect the public and property.

Provided they are not used to prevent lawful protest, I have no problem with water cannon. They are not routinely abused by PSNI, and the mainland forces don’t use rubber bullets and tear gas that they already have.

Seems the Guardian reading bedwetters and wannabe keyboard warrior revolutionaries should just MTFU and work to change the system properly if they are so convinced tbe public and right is on their side. God knows tbe system needs to change.

*awaits flaming. And being extinguished by a water cannon*

Given their divisive, self-interested, inhumane and cruel policies of punishing the poor for being poor, and rewarding the rich for being rich, the present shower of ****s must be absolutely amazed there hasn’t been serious civil unrest already*. I know I am!

As London is the epicentre of inequality, Bozza has probably assumed that his final push to cleanse it of the frightful lower orders, leaving it as a playground for the rich elite only, may encounter a bit of resistance

Hence the purchase

* and by civil unrest:not looting some shops for some new trainers, but a proper mass uprising