Why do people ignore "Trail Closed" signs?

When they close trails here (usually due to rerouting because of wear erosion—lack of annual rainfall precludes our having to handle deep mud bogs), they plant a lot of Cholla cactus in the old trails which usually deters all but an idiot, as cholla will trash tires/tubes instantly (not to mention painful rider damage if you fall into one—I can attest to that). Since the cactii are everywhere, they just lop off a small arm and plant it in the former trail and abut 90% of it reroots and grows.

I suspect that quite a few people assume that trail closures at trail centres are due to felling. If it’s a weekend or they can’t see any work on the go they assume that it’s OK to ride a trail even if it has a closure sign.

There is also an element of entitlement, I think. They’ve come to Glentress, for example, so they’re damn well going to ride Spooky Wood, no sign is going to spoil their fun.

Once a new bit of trail gains any sort of surface it seems like people assume it’s not been opened only because the signs haven’t been put up for it or something. Armoured trails aren’t always ready to ride even once their surface has been compacted down and people aren’t aware how riding an as yet unopened trail can end up delaying its opening significantly. Plus there’s pernicious thoughts like “I’m only one rider, how much damage can I do?” when the damage is done because so many people have that same thought.

Don’t know the place you are talking about but it sounds like FC going so some will feel that Fc land is for all and thus its not for some to close it.
Many, me included here have little respect for much of the FC doings as its is often done for liability reasons. A bog can’t be dangerous when black runs are safe. Its arse covering.
Equally ,me included feel thats its the maintainence of tracks that is wrong not the overuse. Let a route turn to a bog and people will go elsewhere.In time it will recover whereas a gravel runway in a wood will be there for ever.
I assume that all those who object to the ignoring of closure signs have never ridden off an approved track, on a footpath or any other cheeky route.
You can throw in tradition if you like. The local anti FC sell off group protest about the selling of “our forests”. Fair enough. I assume that all of you (and me) who agree with that because those woods have been “ours” for donkeys years will also agree me riding where I want in the woods rather than taking notice of signs . After all I was doing it 40 years ago.

Sorry but many will see no need to aknowledge closures. We don’t see a problem, whereas we do a problem with graveled and drained tracks. We have little respect for the FC which is run by a distant office with little regard for local traditions and more interested in tourism.

You’ll never get a consensus, to think so would be pointless. Maybe however the viewpoint from those who see things differently will help you to find a solution for the issues in your area.
Good luck.hope it works for all eventually

And some people believe trailbuilding is wrong. If you can’t ride it as it is go elsewhere.

Amazing how people have to be abusive to those they don’t know isn’t it? The wonders of human nature.

Plus there’s pernicious thoughts like “I’m only one rider, how much damage can I do?” when the damage is done because so many people have that same thought.

My guess has always been along the same lines. “What harm can it do if just I ride it, this once?”.

Riding around features is also a big issue IMO (as already mentioned). Potentially means trail design has to be dumbed down to cater for the lazy.

It’s weird. On a recent build it’s no exaggeration to say that we covered the trail with branches / logs / brash and fenced off both ends with signs which explained why the trail wasn’t open – some idiot must’ve spent half the night dragging bits of tree out of the way. The stone had gone down wet, it only took a couple of people riding it to mean it had to be resurfaced. The budget for the project worked roughly on the basis that any money left after construction of the blue route would go toward building red extensions and technical features – so people messing up newly built trail directly affected the amount of trail that went in, and they killed off the good stuff. These trails were built on terrain that it wouldn’t be possible to ride otherwise, not over existing cheeky trails.

Maybe people like to imagine they’re some sort of intrepid adventurer going where no man has ridden before. Fact is that if a ‘trail closed’ sign goes up, the trail is probably man made and very popular. Don’t kid yourself.

mattsccm – Member

Sorry but many will see no need to aknowledge closures. We don’t see a problem, whereas we do a problem with graveled and drained tracks.

You have the right to ride elsewhere if you have a problem with maintained trails. But you don’t have the right to damage other people’s hard work by riding an unfinished or otherwise suspended trail.

I wouldn’t ignore felling closures, not even if its the weekend, the FC don’t do much harvesting work themselves these days, mostly contractors who will work all days and even double-shift machines. Big expensive kit doesn’t pay for itself when it’s sitting still.

We have little respect for the FC which is run by a distant office with little regard for local traditions and more interested in tourism.

Yes, I suppose some people think that by ignoring trail closure signs they’re sticking it to “the man”. Actually though, they’re sticking it to the trailbuilders, who are anything but faceless, remote bureaucrats. Plus, indirectly, themselves and other MTBers, for reasons such as those given by wordnumb.

Yes, I suppose some people think that by ignoring trail closure signs they’re sticking it to “the man”. Actually though, they’re sticking it to the trailbuilders, who are anything but faceless, remote bureaucrats. Plus, indirectly, themselves and other MTBers, for reasons such as those given by wordnumb.

I think there’s a fair bit of this. Some people don’t like being told to do anything. They just need to grow up.
I do regular trail maintenance days and it’s funny when those who’ve ignored signs and nearly ride into us never have the balls so say sorry and admit they’ve been dicks.
And we’re not the man – we’re all keen MTBers who see the value in putting something back. As it happens the organisation who arranges the trail maintenance is a charity…

I think there’s a fair bit of this. Some people don’t like being told to do anything. They just need to grow up.
I do regular trail maintenance days and it’s funny when those who’ve ignored signs and nearly ride into us never have the balls so say sorry and admit they’ve been dicks.
And we’re not the man – we’re all keen MTBers who see the value in putting something back. As it happens the organisation who arranges the trail maintenance is a charity…

+1

Is it not an education thing?

You can’t educate people who don’t want to be educated and/or think that they know better. Which unfortunately is the majority.

Stick to natural trails. Closures are VERY rare…

When I’ve seen trail closure signs on FC type land, its usually because of felling work which typically is going on during the week and as its a weekend or evening, and there isnt always an alternative route, I’ll cautiously look around and go through to the other side.

In my mind theres a difference between forestry work and trail work.

If the sign clear stated it was trail work, in KISS words, and the alternative is pointed out, I’d take the alternative.

People are used to riding in forests that are crops and therefore occasionally need felling, people have many years of experience of going through these works historically. Trail centres with bike fairy trails are often percieved as the same.

I think there needs to be a clear distinction made in peoples heads.

The best way to do this I think, is a combination of many of the ideas above, education in the press, good simple signage, alternative routes and blocking the trails.

It should be simple really, if you are in a mixed use Country Park and can see clearly that the trail is being erroded and churned up by bikes that you should question why you are on that trail. Some go through area’s of SSI, and you should find an alternative route. I have been involved in Trail maintenance in Mugdock and see first hand the issues that overuse has caused, therefore in wet weather avoid the trails that can get damaged and only venture their when frozen or after a dry spell.

Some folk don’t care and plough on regardless, spoiling it for other users.

If a trail is closed don’t assume it’s H&S gone mad or a faceless official trying to spoil your fun, respect the sign’s and ride elsewhere, that way it can save the trails and a lot of hassle for other riders/trailbuilders.

hora – Member
Landslip closures in the Peaks. Me on my own. I ignored.

Its my life I die its a recovery job. Simples.

Trail damage is different.

So apart from your sense of entitlement to ride where you like, when you also don’t actually care about the impact of your decisions on other folk, like your family, or the MR people who would have to go out and collect your carcass in the event of your death.

Seems incredibly selfish if you ask me….

In Hora’s defence I’m sure he doesn’t go out to die, he just makes a judgement that a warning is there for the lowest common denominator. Driving snakes pass after a landlsip is probably still safer than riding a mountain bike through the rest of the Peaks for example.

land mines may be an option.

You joke, but we set off an Army trip flare a few weeks back

mattsscm

You are so wrong it’s almost laughable except for the fact it’s really not for someone who actually does build and maintain trails.

Don’t know the place you are talking about but it sounds like FC going so some will feel that Fc land is for all and thus its not for some to close it.

Utter drivel, it’s not your land, it’s FC land (or in many cases land leased to the FC by another land owner). That aside the FC have a duty of care to protect users, have legitmate business to conduct on their land, have stewardship responsibilities for certain sites and wildlife or may simply not want the facililities they’ve often provided for free wrecking befor ethey can be repaired. This is down to the FC to decide in the managment of the land, not you. As I understand it the only concessionary access we have is to fireroads and dedicated trails, riding off piste is not a right. This thread though is predominantly about man made trails, even large areas of undeveloped land is closed it will be for a very good habitat reason.

Many, me included here have little respect for much of the FC doings as its is often done for liability reasons. A bog can’t be dangerous when black runs are safe. Its arse covering.

Well that shows your ignorance of liability issues and basic trail maintenance. Bogs are not usually closed for safety reasons anyway, it’ll be down to not wanting the bog to get any bigger, do more environmental damage, increase the work required to repair it.

Equally ,me included feel thats its the maintainence of tracks that is wrong not the overuse. Let a route turn to a bog and people will go elsewhere.In time it will recover whereas a gravel runway in a wood will be there for ever.

I don’t quite get your point here but your belief that a gravel runway will be there for ever is totally misguided. They can start to significantly degrade in less than a year. As for your criticism of maintenance, people don’t go elsewhere when significant damage is done, or rather they will when the whole trail is wrecked which is a tad late. Budgets and resources for maintenance are tight at the best of times for somehting that is often provided free of charge. Without the armoured trails most of the forest routes would disintergrate very quickly due to the popularity of riding, or would you prefer it if most people don’t have sustainable access to riding in the forests.

I assume that all those who object to the ignoring of closure signs have never ridden off an approved track, on a footpath or any other cheeky route.

Red herring, closures aren’t in place just to upset you, they’re there for safety of users / protection of the trail base, riding off piste / footpaths is a civil access issue, totally different.

You can throw in tradition if you like. The local anti FC sell off group protest about the selling of “our forests”. Fair enough. I assume that all of you (and me) who agree with that because those woods have been “ours” for donkeys years will also agree me riding where I want in the woods rather than taking notice of signs . After all I was doing it 40 years ago.

As above despite your personal delusions you have no more rights to FC managed land than you do to the land the houses of parliment stand on or your local council depot, try riding through them and see what happens, it’s all public land after all.

Sorry but many will see no need to aknowledge closures.

Well that’s arrogant.

We don’t see a problem, whereas we do a problem with graveled and drained tracks.

That’s ignorance, and the world doesn’t revolve around what you want.

We have little respect for the FC which is run by a distant office with little regard for local traditions and more interested in tourism.

More fool you then, the trails I’m involved with have been developed because of the local head forester initially building the trails by hand on his own, the funding is down to the graft and battles he’s fought to secure it and the on going development and maintenance is down to volunteers he actively supports financially and works alongside. His office (which he’s rarely in) is in the middle of the forest next to the trails.

Maybe get your self a little knowledge of the realities before you sound off in future, as mentionned above a little respect for those making an effort on your behalf wouldn’t go amiss, even if you don’t ride trail centres. This weekend I’ll be giving up some of my time to repair my local trails, what will you be doing, vandalising the hard work of others?

I think we settled on pit traps full of honey badgers

Umm, do I get to bring a flask?

When I used to trial build at Cannock it’s surprising how quickly you almost start to see bikers as the ‘enemy’ destroying all your hard work, but as mentioned above, it does come down to education, a lot of people don’t realise it’s nearly all down to volunteers.

Given how busy some trail centres are getting, it’s going to become unsustainable in some places to rely on volunteers to undertake the maintenance unless more people start to help out.

Don’t know the place you are talking about but it sounds like FC going so some will feel that Fc land is for all and thus its not for some to close it.
Many, me included here have little respect for much of the FC doings as its is often done for liability reasons. A bog can’t be dangerous when black runs are safe. Its arse covering.
Equally ,me included feel thats its the maintainence of tracks that is wrong not the overuse. Let a route turn to a bog and people will go elsewhere.In time it will recover whereas a gravel runway in a wood will be there for ever.
I assume that all those who object to the ignoring of closure signs have never ridden off an approved track, on a footpath or any other cheeky route.
You can throw in tradition if you like. The local anti FC sell off group protest about the selling of “our forests”. Fair enough. I assume that all of you (and me) who agree with that because those woods have been “ours” for donkeys years will also agree me riding where I want in the woods rather than taking notice of signs . After all I was doing it 40 years ago.

Sorry but many will see no need to aknowledge closures. We don’t see a problem, whereas we do a problem with graveled and drained tracks. We have little respect for the FC which is run by a distant office with little regard for local traditions and more interested in tourism.

You’ll never get a consensus, to think so would be pointless. Maybe however the viewpoint from those who see things differently will help you to find a solution for the issues in your area.
Good luck.hope it works for all eventually

Words fail me as to the selfishness, arrogance & ignorance of this post…

There is a bit of trail in Woburn that I often ride. There was a nice rooty climb that always posed a challenge for hamfisted and unfit numpties like myself. Anyway, to get to it you go past a boggy area and there are now signs saying no bikes as it is an area of special scientific interest.

So – now I go round the bog and ride the top half of the climb where you can rejoin the trail. But I noticed in the recent snow LOTS of tyre tracks taking the short cut to the climb straight past the closure signs.

I know that those people will consider they are “not doing any harm” or possible are “not going near the boggy bit” and therefore clearly think it’s OK. I doubt however that they are scientists who know what is being studied and which bits matter.

I lost a little faith in my fellow man when I saw what people were doing. Happily the response to the recent bereavement thread on here was able to restore some of it.

Can’t help thinking that the world would be a better place if we all did our best to be “decent”. I must be getting old.