Why are people so against immigration?

OK, so talk us through it. What would change if Surrey was suddenly packed with unskilled immigration? Genuinely curious here

It just gets more interesting

STW is full of people from upper class areas who have zero experience of immigration on their doorstep. People would change their tune if Surrey was suddenly packed with unskilled immigration.

I’m not going to get in a virtue competition with you or anyone else to shows who’s got more lived experience of immigration to the UK, but:

1) 18% of Surrey residents are immigrants – a 26% increase from 2011. The immigrant population of Surrey is 23% higher than the national average (which is 14% of the UK population).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/ukpopulationbycountryofbirthandnationality/yearendingjune2021

2) the 8 richest (by gross disposable household income) areas in the UK are:

– Kensington and Chelsea: 53% immigrants

– Hammersmith and Fulham: 36% immigrants

– Camden: 48% immigrants

– City of London: no data on ONS website

– Wandsworth: 37% immigrants

– Hounslow (which surprised me): 47% immigrants

– Richmond-upon-Thames: 31% immigrants

Fair to say that people in “upper class areas” have probably bumped into the odd immigrant or two.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-richest-neighbourhoods-revealed-your-29084567

3) if the suggestion is that people who live in places with low immigration should pipe down, then maybe we should be hearing less from our friends in Scotland (33% fewer immigrants than UK average), Wiltshire (60% fewer immigrants than average), Barnsley (50% fewer immigrants than average) and the like.

4) but in any case that would be a stupid suggestion as neither lived experience nor living in a high immigration place means you have the slightest clue about anything. Your post or my post or probably both our posts prove that.

5) to go to the one possibly useful bit of your post: immigration and unskilled immigration are not the same. And yet of all immigrants in the workforce in 2022 sorted by country of birth, it was Eastern European EU immigrants that were most likely to be in “low skill” jobs – and even then it was only 18% of that subgroup. The other 82% were in medium-low, medium-high or high skill employment. Source: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/

I tell you what, I can almost smell that roast from here! I lived in a block that had a large proportion of South Asian and Chinese families, and the smells at meal times were amazing.

anderzzFree Member
The concern is that people, (through no fault of their own) grow up in environments that aren’t comparable to that in the UK. . The way females may be treated, the way kids can grow up around death and destruction etc. It can mean integration into a different society is difficult.

mmm… ye-es. Thing is, I’m not sure females or kids are treated consistently well in “English” families either; and the foster system shows that we’re not exactly role models, as a country, of how to bring up well-adjusted children.

@multi21

It’s because it’s STW. It’s a bubble that is not reflective of wider society.

If STW is centrist/leftie doesn’t that actually mirror UK voting intentions pretty accurately?

So by definition it is mirroring wider society. Wouldn’t you agree?

@multi21

My own experience & view on immigration is similar to DT78 earlier in the thread, however I avoided posting because I couldn’t be arsed to deal with the possibility of a pile-on

Was there a pile on, on DT78? The most I’ve seen in here is people, in detail, pointing out the measurable positives of migration with detractors relying upon anecdotes or emotional justifications that don’t just hold water. It’s that simple.

@anderzz
Free Member
STW is full of people from upper class areas who have zero experience of immigration on their doorstep. People would change their tune if Surrey was suddenly packed with unskilled immigration.

Just like with most generalisations, that statement is deeply flawed.

If you came to my street of terraces in an urbanised area of Kent I’d introduced you to our islamic neighbours that offered to get our meds and food sorted when I was too ill to shop myself a couple of years back.

Then the guy of Indian heritage across the roads that has just spent 3 years training in his speciality to get a job in the NHS.

Then I’d take your down the road to say hi to our road’s weed dealer. He’s white by the way, if that’s even relevant?

Is this representative of every road in the UK? Of course not, that would be a ridiculous generalisation.

Once you pick at a loose thread in a generalisation, it always comes apart quickly.

@ policecameraaction Hounslow includes Chiswick. Some pretty expensive properties here 👍🏻

Ahhh, okay. That part of town is like a foreign country to me. I don’t know if I have ever been there.

If STW is centrist/leftie doesn’t that actually mirror UK voting intentions pretty accurately?

If being the operative word. Based on the postings I would suggest it is much more left than centrist but I guess that’s all perspective

I would suggest it is much more left than centrist but I guess that’s all perspective

Indeed it is because to me this forum has a strong right wing bias – but a few lefties are noisy.  But then I see labour as a right wing party.  The concensus on here is right of centre

chrismac
If being the operative word. Based on the postings I would suggest it is much more left than centrist but I guess that’s all perspective

tjagain

Indeed it is because to me this forum has a strong right wing bias – but a few lefties are noisy. But then I see labour as a right wing party. The concensus on here is right of centre

There we have STW and people in general summed up, we are all on the forum and read the same posts yet come to completely different conclusions.

As for me? I love all you argumentative* buggers, without an ounce of sarcasm by the way!👍😁

* Yeah, that includes me on occasion of course.

No you don’t.

Cougar
Full Member
No you don’t.

Oh yes I do!

Only read the first page so don’t know which way the thread has gone, but this all boils down to one major thing to me.

Whatever the levels of immigration, there needs to be a coherent government plan to ensure the necessary level of services, housing etc are available as and when there is population growth. And it needs to be front and centre so people see and understand the now and the future.

That hasn’t been happening for years….ever in fact.

People have a right to be concerned when there is no obvious plan, and as we know, a void will be filled one way or another.  I believe migration is too high at the moment because we are not planning how to deal with it.  My concern is we live in a world which is unsettled (war, povery, climate etc) and more and more people affected will be looking to Europe.  Its not great with no plan now, but in the years to come that will only get worse – see the rise of the right in Europe now.  What the hell is going to happen there as more people migrate and there are no obvious plans as to how to deal with it.  I dread to think.

Now, in the uk, you could say the Tories have created the migration “situation” on purpose so there is an easy finger to point when things aren’t as they should be.  But that is in the past (or it will be on July 5th)  and I will be very interested to see how Labour manage this.  Will they provide some details people can buy into other than a headline “more immigration is good cause immigrants are a net economic benefit”.  Afer 15 years of high immigration a lot of people are struggling so they aren’t going to believe that whatever the truth because they certainly arent’t reaping the econmic benefits.

Oh yes I do!

Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

Indeed it is because to me this forum has a strong right wing bias – but a few lefties are noisy.  But then I see labour as a right wing party.  The concensus on here is right of centre

Whatever the levels of immigration, there needs to be a coherent government plan to ensure the necessary level of services, housing etc are available as and when there is population growth. And it needs to be front and centre so people see and understand the now and the future.

No need, we just blame Europe for all our ills and post Brexit, we just blame immigrants.

Much easier than raising taxes to invest in infrastructure….

Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour

I measure most things in seconds these days. 😉

I haven’t had a chance to read all this. But I’m an immigrant. However, people have less issue with me as an immigrant than they may have with, say, a Latinx family moving into their neighborhood. Maybe that says something about them.

Much easier than raising taxes to invest in infrastructure

In my experience this is the truth. While not wanting to derail this there’s an alarming consistency in which anti abortion enthusiasts are also against increased family support to help women forced into keeping a baby. It’s like blaming immigrants for shitting public funding while screaming about tax cuts.

Not much to add here but my feelings on all this start with a belief that anyone should have a right to live anywhere. I realise practically that’s not workable but it’s how I’d like to be treated. Global economy, global capitalism.. leads to global movement of people and I don’t have a problem with that. I’m not going to suggest how to manage it, not my area of expertise at all.

“It just gets more interesting”
It does, that looks like some really sloppy Photoshop work. Was is posted by someone intending it to be seen as a genuine street BBQ?

“It just gets more interesting”
It does, that’s some really sloppy Photoshop work. Was is posted by someone intending it to be seen as a genuine street BBQ?

I picture searched it to see which accounts retweet it. I wasn’t entirely surprised.

It’s definitely photoshopped. The road in the cars mirror doesn’t match up with the real road (https://maps.app.goo.gl/pBezS6BXPb6hjCGbA)  and the lady with the pram seems to be smashing her way through chairs / bins to get where she is.

HoratioHufnagel
Free Member
It’s definitely photoshopped. The road in the cars mirror doesn’t match up with the real road (https://maps.app.goo.gl/pBezS6BXPb6hjCGbA) and the lady with the pram seems to be smashing her way through chairs / bins to get where she is.

Impressive detective work there, the image in the mirror is wrong, as you say. No lines of granite blocks along the road.👍

Because the middle classes suffer little to no negative impact from immigration and, as seen in this thread, think its great, and that anyone who disagrees with them must be stupid, racist, or gullible (or all three).

I grew up in some of the more questionable areas of West Yorkshire. Council estate as a child and worse places in and around Huddersfield and Halifax in my later youth. Whenever I encountered violence, shit behaviour, unsociable behaviour, crime in general and overall humans being dicks. Nine times out of ten it was English white people. The one time it wasn’t was when the race riots kicked off in and around Bracken Hill and The Riddings in Deighton. That was shite on all sides but 80% British people.

So speaking as someone who, up until relatively recently, lived in deprived areas with large populations of immigrants, it wasn’t the immigrants that were the issue. Ignorant, native whitey is where the issues were.

I now live in Cheshire so I’m clearly middle class. Most of the issues around here are, go on guess.

Even if that street barbecue photo was real – whats the moral differnce with this picture?

Even if that street barbecue photo was real – whats the moral differnce with this picture?

The ginger in the other picture was probably on the spit? I like the previous picture even more.

Even if that street barbecue photo was real – what’s the moral difference with this picture?

Well one was a national holiday with 1000s of street parties

Anyway I apologise for posting that picture, didn’t realise it was fake, mods please delete it.

Anyway I apologise for posting that picture, didn’t realise it was fake, mods please delete it.

I hope it didn’t make part of the ‘evidence’ that we are still waiting for…

Answer:

<generalisation>People fear change. They fear the idea of change even more so.<generalisation>

Even if that street barbecue photo was real – whats the moral differnce with this picture?

It’s not real, but if it was, then the difference would be the picture you’ve done is a street party, that’s to cover a national day of celebration, and it looks like the whole street are involved, the fake pic would be people doing something on public property and getting in the way during a normal day.

reeksyFull Member
Answer:

<generalisation>People fear change. They fear the idea of change even more so.<generalisation>
Posted 2 hours ago

That’s just an obvious mistake though – your html tags are never going to work if you forget the “/” on the closing tag… 😉

Belief that the country is the native people’s and should be run for their benefit.

Is it for the native people, the natives and others as guests, the natives and others as equals, or is it for the rich and corporations? Currently I feel that in practice it’s the latter, but the public would prefer it to be one of the former – and are divided about which one.

To turn it around, pick a random country and ask who that country is for, and should be for. Is France for the French, should Switzerland be for anyone who fancies it, should Australia be for indigenous people? Would I be wrong to feel entitled to be able to emigrate to Japan and live how I want there?

I hadn’t noticed Japan encouraging immigration with boat loads from the colonies or currently carers from Rwanda to work for poor pay in undesirable jobs. However, if you’ve got an English teaching or ski instructing qualification you’ll get a job in Japan unlike in post-Brexit Europe.

For as long as I’ve been watching the news there have been MPs hostile to immigration spouting bile while their government hires bus drivers, production line workers and medical staff from around the world and shits on them at every oportunity.

I’m happy to be an immigrant but dismayed at the proportion of the population supporting racist/xenophobic parties and being hostile to anyone not exactly like them.