Why are people so against immigration?

Housing is a real bad issue that’s for sure, my mums street (union st) has 14 holiday let houses out of 25, it’s not sustainable so it’s no wonder that folk are annoyed and priced out of the market

Yes my Mum lives over on the Rhins and its worse, the villages are dead in the winter. The region needs the tourist £ but also needs thriving local communities. The balance is wrong at the moment.  The Council Tax change (double for 2nd homes?) is a good idea, but will it address that and why has it taken so long to implement?

A general question to anyone of any persuasion on immigration, what is your average interaction with immigrants?

My next door neighbours on one side are Polish, English on the other. I have way more interaction with the Poles. Over the road is a Romanian family that I often chat to. Round the corner one way is a Hungarian family, the other way is a couple of Bulgarian families. I exchange pleasantries with all of them.

In the last 20 (at least) years I haven’t worked anywhere that hasn’t had European migrants and I had a couple of Iranians in my team at my last job as well.

A few years ago I lived in a town centre near a hospital and a gym and the biggest change was all the Europeans disappeared and were replaced by Indians.

Even as our resident Geoff Norcott, grimep, points out – the reason people don’t like immigrants is because a government which has underinvested in public services is blaming immigrants for a decline in the quality of public services. Immigrants are a useful scapegoat when they’re actually the solution to the problem.

Preach!!
Once one accepts this, though, it’s a short hop to realising that the anti-immigrant bile is largely a political confection, used for political capital, scoring points etc. And pumped up by the absolute rags of the press (at least in the UK)

few years ago I lived in a town centre near a hospital and a gym and the biggest change was all the Europeans disappeared and were replaced by Indians.

What’s the relevance of a hospital and a gym being near by?

What’s the relevance of a hospital and a gym being near by?

Dunno about hospitals, but I do think mainstream Gym’s (Puregym, local independent strength & conditioning focused gyms etc not council gyms or more upmarket places like Nuffield or Virgin which tend to have their own crowd)  are probably a good barometer of immigration as they’re a secular space that people tend to join when they’re new to an area and don’t have any social networks or anything better to do with their free time than work on themselves.

Not sure about any shift to a new demographic* but thinking back there was definitely an exodus of people speaking Eastern European languages in the years after 2016.

*other than groups teenage boys and 20something ladies but maybe that’s just my perception that everyone is getting younger as I get older.

A general question to anyone of any persuasion on immigration, what is your average interaction with immigrants?

Next door neighbour Jen is Portuguese, and works in the care sector doing home visits for the NHS.

Over the road is Rob who is second generation polish immigrant and a cracking neighbour, very useful with the tools and advice after working all his life in property maintenance. Next to him is Mumtaz who is a widow but her husband was a consultant surgeon at the RSCH.

The only one i have problems with is Mumtaz, because she’s perpetually cooking and I’m stuck between only smelling or eating her offerings, which then makes my clothes shrink.

What’s the relevance of a hospital and a gym being near by?

Not sure what you do not understand – the question was “what is your average interaction with immigrants”?

I went to a gym next to a hospital used mainly by its staff and that was my main interaction.

Oh neighbours – I forgot them.  One greek, two poles, one spanish.  Excellent neighbours and better than the ethic scots there before 🙂

A general question to anyone of any persuasion on immigration, what is your average interaction with immigrants?

My family, and that’s a mixed bag of lunacy. Indian, with a smattering of French, but we don’t talk about that. Grandmother was 1st generation with my Dad and his siblings.

My neighbours, from Pakistan, similar to above, the delights that get passed over the fence are a bonus. And they don’t judge me for having Indian heritage too harshly.

My work, the organisation is incredibly diverse, over 70 nationalities are represented and exemplifies some the issues raised in this thread.

The negative experiences I’ve had either with racists growing up or immigrants as an adult come down to one thing; they’ve been shitty people. Even those within my own family.

And all the divisive bollocks spouted by hatemongers (whatever their angle) simply reinforces & further justifies their behaviour.

Married to an immigrant, work with loads – Primary healthcare sector.

My employer (big University) quotes 8,000 international students from more than 140 countries and nearly 1,000 staff from more than 90 different countries. I see this a huge positive. My last University was nowhere near as global and it causes issues. I have learnt and grown so more where I am now, working in an international community.

Is this discussion about legal or illegal immigration?
Still waiting for clarity on this…

It’s both, apparently.

I’d bet that there is a tory donor hoovering up the cash with a contract to supply sub standard hotel rooms

It’s a comforting myth to believe this has all been a conspiracy to benefit a few. It’s been an emerging omnishambles for years.

*On a related note, why is Harvest Festival so much worse than Iftar, Eid, or seemingly everything Sikh?

Because no-one gives a shit about the Church of England (including me).

Immigration, overall, is needed to keep this country running

However as someone mentioned above, it hits areas disproportionately.

Real experience:  I lived in a lovely street of 2 bed victorian terraces, for 10 years.  After about 8 years b2l landlords starting buying them up and renting them out as HMOs to eastern europeans mostly young men, (probably not legally).  In a relatively short period of time the street became a shit hole, noise, smell of drugs, rubbish in front gardens, even human shit in the alley behind the garden (possibly due to hot bunking).  Raids by immigration police, house on the corner became a brothel.  Had my car broken into, we were burgled.  One of the neighbours cars parked outside the house for 6 months whilst they were in prison…. plenty more stories as the area degraded.  To say its a ghetto now is a  bit of an exaggeration, but it certainly isn’t what is was several years ago.

Now on an individual basis I’m sure all these people are just desperate and trying to make a better life for themselves.  And I’d do the same for my family.  However the impact on our quality of life was significant

We moved, as did everyone else we knew apart from the eldery who had lived their all their lives

We moved to a nicer area, which has plenty of diversity, but much fewer people and ones that care about their surroundings

Experiences like that are why people are against immigration.  Its not individual people or skin colour its the detrimental impact to communities when immigration is concentrated

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Those that suggest the country is ‘full’, ferfhucksake get off yet arses and go outside.

There is PLENTY of space.

Now, mega-rich non-dom tax dodgers with 15 properties, 14 or which are empty at any time (and 15 mostly), now THAT’S a problem.

2nd homes that are in areas where locals if a working age  can’t afford anything- THAT’S a problem.

Failure  to re-develop areas that have empty former industrial use, THAT’S  a problem.

(I see in my own town, a huge empty cotton mill that dominates the area. Empty. has been for decades (or at least 90% empty).  But not redeveloped because there is more PROFIT in building on l farmland.

Quite a few mills around these parts are now flats, or they’ve demolished the original building and built houses on the land.

Rarely affordable though. Or there may be a smattering within the development.

But there are two big ones I pass on my way to work that are simply husks, wasted real estate for sure.

It’s both, apparently.

Seems to be focused on legal migration though, which is not what “a significant minority of people” are concerned about.

Seems to be focused on legal migration though, which is not what “a significant minority of people” are concerned about

This is purely anecdotal but many of the people I know who’ve expressed concerns about immigration rarely differentiate.

The examples they use are often the high profile media stories that involve a shitty person doing shitty things often a legal migrant or claiming asylum. Rarely is it an illegal.

The sad part is the one bloke who blows himself up or goes banzai in London with a knife gets more airtime than those who commit huge amounts of time, energy and emotion to helping others.

I guess one of the downsides of mass immigration is the reality that in those masses are some shitty humans. If we ‘closes the gates’ there’s an element of cutting our own noses to spite our face.

Properly funded infrastructure and agencies to manage are part of the solution for sure.

What do you mean by not legal migration? If it’s rejected asylum applications, we have processes for that… we just need to fund and staff them… whether that be in the UK or before arrival.

What do you mean by not legal migration? If it’s rejected asylum applications, we have processes for that… we just need to fund and staff them… whether that be in the UK or before arrival.

The fact that they have to consider getting the armed forces involved to backfill vacancies when they’re having staffing issues speaks volumes.

Bare minimum for peanuts seems to be the way and then people are surprised when stuff fails.

So I can explain my dads reasons…

My dad hates immigaration. Literally any problem he encounters is blamed on immigration. e.g. lack of swans on the local river is because the immigrants are eating them. He also blames waiting times in the NHS on immigration “because you can see all the foreigners waiting”. He seems to have a particular problem with muslims as he sees islam as a violent religion. He was livid when he saw a muslim bookshop open up in the city and feels like the local area is no longer his home and has a different culture. He complains that we are being replaced as happens in nature “when one species goes extinct”. He also dislikes the EU and said we voted for a trading union, not a political union, and it was all labours fault for opening up the borders straight away that immigration got so bad.

He doesn’t consider himself racist in the slightist, and he’s always friendly to people he meets (regardless of colour/religion).

Conversely, my grandad was very much against Brexit. He said we faught facism, not “the germans” and thought brexit undid the work of the last 70 years since the war.

Literally any problem he encounters is blamed on immigration.

You could have written that about my Mum. I don’t think either of them are hugely atypical for their generation. Took the dogs for a few walks when I visited her last week. Lots of general chats with other, er, “older” dog walkers… Eastern Europeans came up a lot… in reference to everything… especially when it came to the amount of new build housing (despite my mum living in one of those new homes, and having moved into the area when she bought it).

“That hedge needs cutting”… “probably immigrants expecting the Council to do it for them”… that sort of thing.

Lots of general chats with other, er, “older” dog walkers… Eastern Europeans came up a lot…

Bloody Dalmatians and Borzois, coming over here and finding the best sticks. These days, you say you’re a Staffy, they come around and lock you up.

Even my Greyhound is an immigrant. She’s from Ireland!

Conversely, my grandad was very much against Brexit. He said we faught facism, not “the germans” and thought brexit undid the work of the last 70 years since the war.

My grandad was bloody livid. Fortunately he died at 101 before it actually happened so he didn’t get to see the nonsense. And he remembered people coming home from the first war with bits missing. He was also pretty livid about the state of the NHS and it certainly wasn’t to do with the immigrants that looked after him.

Not sure what you do not understand – the question was “what is your average interaction with immigrants”?

I went to a gym next to a hospital used mainly by its staff and that was my main interaction

Ah, I understand now. I have interaction with people born for outside the UK pretty much everywhere, I hadn’t realised that in some areas they tend to be restricted to hospitals and gyms 👍

Edit: “Hadn’t occurred” is probably a better explanation.

My neighbors are 3 generations of Brazilian.

Based on them (mostly the Dashhound and the mother in law both being obnoxiously noisy) can I reconsider my previous Laisse Faire attitude to immigration? 😂

only places I’ve heard people complain about this have been areas where the immigrant population is almost non-existent

I’d share that view. I’ve moved around lots. I grew up in Chester but have since lived in London, Belfast, Edinburgh, Kent, Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire, Germany and Cyprus. We moved here to rural Shropshire about 9 years ago.

The level of overt, casual racism amongst some (not all) of my neighbours though is shocking and worse than anywhere else I’ve lived. From otherwise nice, helpful, friendly people who have made us feel very welcome. The thing is though that it’s also the least multicultural area I’ve ever lived. You hardly ever see a non white face, and even white immigrants are rare. It’s mostly farming families who’ve lived here for generations.

It’s obvious to me that if these neighbours ever met any of those they are so unpleasant about, their ridiculous fears and prejudices would disappear in a puff of smoke. It’s largely ignorance and fear of the unknown.

He was livid when he saw a muslim bookshop open up in the city and feels like the local area is no longer his home and has a different culture.

He doesn’t consider himself racist in the slightist, and he’s always friendly to people he meets (regardless of colour/religion).

I can well believe that and there isn’t necessarily a contradiction imo. I know plenty with similar attitudes.

People like the reassurance and sense of security which the familiar brings. The unfamiliar and different feels challenging, uncomfortable, and a bit scary.

You get that on here with the political threads!! Most people seem to want them to be echo chambers where personal beliefs are validated and approved, and the warm reassurance that brings.

I on the hand love it …..vive la différence and all that.

doomanic
Full Member
It’s both, apparently.

Seems to be focused on legal migration though, which is not what “a significant minority of people” are concerned about.

This “oh, but we’re only worried about the illegal immigrants” is utter BS. Where people complain about immigration (services, housing, government funding) it’s ONLY legal immigration that is causing these issues. There isn’t a huge queue of illegal immigrants buying up all the housing, lifting rents, taking legal jobs etc.

But again, politicians and rags like the Daily Hatemail have managed to convince people that we’re being overrun by illegal immigrants who are stealing our jobs (how – they have no papers), our rental properties (same) and our NHS (unlikely, they generally dno’t go in for large elective surgery…) – as a way to hide racism as “legitimate concern about our countrys future”.

illegal immigrants who are stealing our jobs (how – they have no papers)

This is a bit naive. There are plenty of ways to work without the legal right in this country. This one is just the latest iteration:  https://inews.co.uk/news/delivery-riders-account-sharing-facebook-black-market-2957089

I remember probably 10 yrs or so ago, being in a hospital ward in Bradford with my ill son.

The bed next to us was an Asian lad, and I will never forget about how his family were moaning about all these Polish people coming in to their community, taking their houses, shops etc etc.

IMO nationally its just an easy target for the journalism to stir interest, and something for politicians to try and differentiate themselves on.

Watching the new this morning they were asking if people were going to vote. One women responded she was because potholes were getting too bad.

For some of the older generation if you are from a different town then they see you as an immigrant, so I can only imagine how they view people from another country. I remember being in a pub in my home town when I was younger and being asked by an older man where I was from, I said I was  born and bred in the town and he said ‘where are your parents from though’ I told him Glasgow and he replied ‘ ah, so you are not really from here then!’. Unless you are born and bred,third generation then you are considered an outsider.

One women responded she was because potholes were getting too bad.

It’s all those foreign lorries you see.

“Percentages Calculation (thanks chatgpt)

Latin-based: (20 / 170) * 100 ≈ 11.76%

Norman-based: (9 / 170) * 100 ≈ 5.29%

Germanic: (135 / 170) * 100 ≈ 79.41%

Other: (1 / 170) * 100 ≈ 0.59%

These calculations show that the text predominantly consists of Germanic words, with significant contributions from Latin-based and Norman-based vocabularies, reflecting the complex linguistic history of the English language.

Whats more The house of lords… Those lords were A certain norman kings buddies…

So yeah “it is now”… And always has been?”

I did deal with this in a subsequent post – the population of England. although mixed blood, had become pretty settled by the Norman Conquest, we then had nigh on 900 years as a country with relatively little immigration – pca posted a good graph. The single largest influx we have dealt with were the 250,000 Belgians during the first World war, but they pretty much all returned home after the war.

Most people who are against immigration are not racist.

Got a source for this claim? My personal experience does not bear this out. YMMV.

Most immigrants do not want more immigration.

Why?

Because xenophobia isn’t the exclusive domain of white British ‘Christian’ people?

Lets be honest, you’re never going to get an actual answer to the original question on STW, i don’t think this is the type of community where you get the thoughts and feelings that are against immigration or have issues with it, you’re only going to get what you’ve got, which is just positivity about immigration with very little negative comments.

A general question to anyone of any persuasion on immigration, what is your average interaction with immigrants?

I lived most of my life in Accrington.  There was a large population of people of Pakistani descent, along with a smattering of others.  If anything, white British were the minority, certainly in the ward I lived.  Walking past the playground at my old primary school, the only white faces you’re likely to see were the teachers.  When I moved out I think I was the only white person left on the block.  I suppose it’s easy for some to see this as “taking over” if you never travel outside of your home town.

And you know, they were (mostly) all lovely.  There were a few young Asian lads who acted like they’d grown up in the Bronx, but that can be attributed to them being young lads rather than anything to do with their race/descent.  The only people I ever really had any bother from were the whites.

We had an Asian lad on our team, I think third-generation Pakistani immigrant, and a nicer bloke you couldn’t hope to meet.  We had some fairly lengthy chats around religion and whilst as regular readers will know I don’t hold much truck with such things, it was an eye-opener.  There are those who think of Islam as a religion of hate, and whilst that may be true in some [schisms? sects? branches? I don’t know the correct term, sorry], it’s a far cry from what he’s been taught.  Part of his faith involves giving back to the community – that is, the community as a whole, not just fellow Muslims – it’s a mandatory part of their teachings and I’ve seen that in action first-hand.  From what he’s told me this is pretty much the norm, the extremists hitting the headlines shortly after bits of them have hit several walls are not following any form of Islam that most British Muslims recognise.

Someone said earlier that the less interaction/exposure people have with “foreigners” the more likely they are to be racist – sorry, excuse me, “opposed to immigration.”  I think that’s largely true, though it’s a rule of thumb rather than an absolute.

So I can explain my dads reasons…
…
He doesn’t consider himself racist in the slightist,

I would respectfully suggest that he is mistaken.

Bit late to this and most of my views have probably been covered off already. Immigration is one of the few things left of this country that makes it great imo. I feel lucky to know loads of people from all over. My direct report is a Slovakian, I have a Brazilian, several Polish people, a Lithuanian and two Romanians on the wider team. Our office and warehouse have people from all over. It’s great!

Political parties are fantastic at othering and sadly it works on large swathes of our society.  You get people quoting crime figures, yet you get dickheads anywhere. Lack of housing, that’s down to poor planning and existing housing being very expensive. I don’t see where immigrants are an issue at all.

Lets be honest, you’re never going to get an actual answer to the original question on STW, i don’t think this is the type of community where you get the thoughts and feelings that are against immigration or have issues with it, you’re only going to get what you’ve got, which is just positivity about immigration with very little negative comments.

Because it’s STW, or because those who are opposed appear to lack the ability to articulate why?