Why are people so against emmigration?

I like where I live and have reached the vast distance of four miles from my place of birth. My family in general has moved no more than 10 miles in the last few hundred years! The wife and I have been fantasising about moving to Scotland for a few years now ( I know it’s not quite the same as leaving this island) I feel it’s a one way ticket, that scares me. My wife I imagine, the moment grandchildren come along will not move. I guess we will daydream a little longer.

Given that most conversations are based on the world is turning to shit and moaning about family members, why don’t more people just up and move to somewhere better?

if it’s the world turning to shit presumably I need a spacecraft to escape the planet, which as im not called Besos, Branson or Musk seem to be a bit of a barrier!

more seriously, I’m slightly over the 30 miles from birth but wife is well under so on average we probably conform to your rule.  I did live several hundred miles away in a different country within the U.K. and then made a decision to return so perhaps I’ve given it more thought than some.  We also discuss from time to time retirement plans that might involve moving several hours away.

why did I move back?

– one of us had to move job if we were both going to be in the same place.  I couldn’t really see myself in that place really long term, so it seemed wrong for me to drag (future)Mrs from a job she liked and was doing well in to probably just a “anything to pay the bills” position.  That must surely be a common factor for many considering emmigration or even big internal moves – great “you’ve” got your dream job in an amazing location but the other half has to compromise.

– I could see that setting there involved house purchase, future schooling etc.  I was more familiar with the systems for those that I grew up with – it doesn’t mean “my” systems were better but certainly more comfortable.

Why have we stayed here now?

– a very good local friend network

– family support for childcare (not needed now but was for over a decade)

– Brexit has limited the range of countries we can just move to on a whim.  Perhaps not really an issue for us – but certainly a consideration for my offspring as they start to think where in the world they want to go.

– in the past career could have led me to the USA.  Thank god it didn’t!

what about in retirement?

– we both have parents who are ageing; ultimately one day that will resolve itself and we might go somewhere else but as the age it’s clear that one or other is likely to need us more.  I think the premise of your question that we “all” have serious issues with our families is wrong.

– as we age proximity to facilities becomes more important; that won’t necessarily stop a move but it might limit the range of choices.

My job is to wander around the world taking photographs, but I’ve never lived more than 10 miles from where I was born. I do like living in the woods, but if I could I would like to try living in a mega city like London, Seoul, Tokyo or New York.

I live about six miles from where I was born but and both areas are in London so the distance is a bit more meh – London is an enormous city. My parents were both immigrants and moved around London before settling in the same house for fifty years.
Mrs Kilo was born over 50 miles from our home now and brought up even further away – she wanted to leave her home town and move to London as soon as she finished school, which she did. Spending her life in a dead end town, with a very insular attitude bitd, wasn’t her idea of fun. She has never mentioned any desire to move back there (sorry Portland residents).

From my family both my brothers emigrated, one when offered a post in the USA and the other ended up specialising as a Brazilian music dj so ended up living there for a long time and kind of drifted from the UK to Portugal . My ideal would also be to leave England when I finish work in a few years, to Ireland. Even my my mother has emigrated now at 86. However all my nephews and nieces are quite keen to try living in the UK at some stage so maybe our family will keep flitting in and out of it, if only to annoy the anti immigrant rump 😉

As I lay in bed this morning, June 5th,  hearing the wind and rain battering the windows, the thought of that 6 figure tax free 3 year assignment in Dubai doesn’t sound too bad

Bob, 7 months of the year, you’ll be living under an AC unit missing the ability to go outside, even in the rain!

Which is £2.5k more than a lot of folk in the UK these days.

TBH, when i started planning to leave the country i only got in the black in my bank account on payday and for three or four days after that. Also, credit cards (several grand), car finance and personal bank loans (several grand). Some of them i cleared from the house sale, most i cleared by (metaphorically) living on beans on toast. I was not living particularly extravagantly in the first place.

Now rerun the scenario with 6months since you were made redundant and two kids in tow and a partner on unpaid maternity leave. And that 2k has been used for the last 6months keeping everyone fed.

Only people who i know with kids (or without for that matter) who’ve managed to emigrate effectively and without any hardship have managed to do it either because one of the adults is moving home after emigrating for studies or as a single/younger person, or the company has paid a *lot* of their expenses.

The weather in Dubai is great, absolutely perfect…for 4 or 5 months of the year. If you’re single and prepared to live modestly, you can save a ton of money. If you have a family – forget it, you’ll get sucked in.

 i had about 1000 quid cash reserves and an unsold house when i left

That’s a pretty big “and”!

There’s a bit of a smug “I’m not like the dickheads in my humdrum home town, I’m a proper immigrant (because I moved from Morpeth to Kirkcaldy)” undertone to this thread…

Alpin is right though: if you’re really determined to move and will work legally or legally at anything that comes along, then money isn’t necessarily everything. But it can be hard work and involve a lot of sacrifices emotionally.

Edit to add: this might belong on the immigration thread but there is a picture painted of “yeah well when they come to this country for a better standard of living they’ve got it made”. But that ignores the fact that it can be very frustrating to be away from your family and friends (esp when you have kids), away from support networks, struggling with a foreign language and weird food, in grim weather…as evidenced by the fact that after Brexit a whole .bunch of Eastern Europeans decided to go home even though they could have stayed.

, when i started planning to leave the country i only got in the black in my bank account on payday and for three or four days after that. Also, credit cards (several grand), car finance and personal bank loans (several grand). Some of them i cleared from the house sale, most i cleared by (metaphorically) living on beans on toast

You had a house.
You had access to credit.
Again, that’s really significantly more than many people have in the UK.

I’m not trying to denigrate your efforts and success, it’s clearly hard earned. But it’s not an opportunity many have.

I’m not trying to denigrate your efforts and success, it’s clearly hard earned. But it’s not an opportunity many have.

emigrating in modern times is very different to emigrating 100 years ago. In the context of moving from the UK as a UK citizen you’d likely be one of the better off in your native country.

Excuse the term, but it is a lifestyle option rather than an economic necessity.

edit: and being able to choose your lifestyle is a huge privilege.

Depends how long your memory is. And which part of the UK you’re talking about. I know lots of people who emigrated to nearby countries out of economic necessity, when moving to other areas of the UK was a totally unaffordable alternative. Things have changed though… moving, broke, to a country with the hope that your job opportunities are better isn’t going to be an option if things get worse here for people in some areas of the UK.

I was born in Suffolk and, whilst it is a nice place, moved out when I could, starting with university and then for work. I ended up living near Cambridge for a long while than taking the decision to sell up, sell off and move to Sweden.

I will never move back. Sweden has problems, but is generally a better place. Brexit tried to f me over, but it failed and, now that I have citizenship here, I don’t need to leave. I don’t want to leave. I like my small house in the country. I like my area.

In the context of moving from the UK as a UK citizen you’d likely be one of the better off in your native country.

Well true, yes, if you were moving from being the “average” UK resident to the “average” resident of the destination. But not many people did that for the reasons you state. They moved because there was free or cheap stolen land in Canada or Argentina or Zimbabwe, because there was a massive labour shortage in Australia or Saudi, because they could be administrators on a better screw than the locals in India, because they were married or politically inspired or religious zealots or bonkers…

emigrating in modern times is very different to emigrating 100 years ago. In the context of moving from the UK as a UK citizen you’d likely be one of the better off in your native country.

This is very true.

One of my family members escaped the pain of living with my grandfather in the 1960’s. He left having secretly saved just enough for an air fair and headed out on the hope of he could survive a week on the streets of Sydney and find work. Which he succeeded in, and married the air hostess from the flight out. 😎

I saw brother emigrate in 2005, they needed modest savings, skills and more to get into NZ.

I’ve got a son who has looked at emigrating long term, beyond a gap year type visa, and he needs really significant savings or niche skills or both. And Brexit has been a huge whammy in this respect.

Only people who i know with kids (or without for that matter) who’ve managed to emigrate effectively and without any hardship have managed to do it either because one of the adults is moving home after emigrating for studies or as a single/younger person, or the company has paid a *lot* of their expense

My younger brother moved with wife and kid to Brazil then on to Portugal. No company picking up the tabs. Worked with a guy who just upped and moved family to Spain. So it can be done.

emigrating in modern times is very different to emigrating 100 years ago.

I’d say it’s vastly different to emigrating fifty years ago let alone 100 the main difference now being how easy it is to come back. In my parents youth people would emigrate and you’d never see them again nowadays people in similar circumstances (young Irish) can go for a few years, get citizenship and still come back east enough. This is one of the reasons UK isn’t as popular as it once was , international air travel has impacted emigration.

Depends how long your memory is. And which part of the UK you’re talking about. I know lots of people who emigrated to nearby countries out of economic necessity, when moving to other areas of the UK was a totally unaffordable alternative. Things have changed though… moving, broke, to a country with the hope that your job opportunities are better isn’t going to be an option if things get worse here for people in some areas of the UK.

Well true, yes, if you were moving from being the “average” UK resident to the “average” resident of the destination. But not many people did that for the reasons you state.

im talking in the context of now. if you are not a refugee you need to be able to offer the new country something that they want. The days of shipping orphans to Canada or being able to buy residency and ticket to Australia for £10 are long gone. The ability to pop across the channel to get a job, as we are all aware, is also gone.

what I was trying to do was answer the question “why are people against emigration?” My answer was, because it is not as simple as buying a ticket to a foreign country and getting a job when you arrive.

As for the uncomfortable subject of stolen land, the people of Britain had already had their land stolen from them by the same sorts of people. I’m not trying to justify anything by that statement.

I’ve got a son who has looked at emigrating long term, beyond a gap year type visa, and he needs really significant savings or niche skills or both.

there are ways to get into Canada that can get around these needs. There was also a scheme running where you could convert your gap year visa into something more long term.

This may help:

edit: the program has been paused for 2024.

https://yukon.ca/en/immigrate-yukon#

im talking in the context of now.

Ahh, sorry, I misunderstood what you said.

im talking in the context of now.

I agree with all that then.

👍

I don’t know anyone who is. I’ve lived and worked in America, Norway, Australia, New Zealand,Spain and all over the UK. Most of my friends have lived and worked overseas or moved in the UK. Back a few miles from where I was born and quite happy. When I’ve had enough I’ll head back to Europe.

Some people just like where they are born

I live around 10 miles from where i was born, all my family are here, we see each other all the time and enjoy spending time together, we grew up with all our aunties and uncles around and now we are doing the same with our kids

We are lucky that we live on the south coast near the Hampshire and West Sussex border

Nice coastal areas, the Southdown’s is a 10-15 min drive away, in 20 mins on the bike i can be out in the countryside, great for MTB and the road bike

There are 3 cities within a 30 min drive for anything that you can only get in cities, we can be in London in an 1hr 30 mins for seeing shows, museums and everything else London has to offer

Really cant see me ever wanting to live anywhere else, had the chance to move abroad for work and declined, as much as i enjoyed working abroad for a month at a time there’s no way id want live outside the UK

I’m 373miles from place of birth and unlikely to ever return, nor feel the need to do so.

Some people just like where they are born

I no longer have a right to live and work where I was born, and nor do my offspring, the fact I like it there is irrelevant… but hey…

One of my friends has moved his family there recently, coincidentally, needed a company to sponsor him… so not impossible…but as LAT says, it’s not a buy a ticket and go there to find work situation.

That’s a pretty big “and”!

You had a house.

Unsold, no committed buyer at the time i moved, mortgage of (more than) half my monthly salary to pay, no job to go to in foreign country. Gas, electric, council tax, insurance. All needed paying. A short delay in selling would have been disastrous. I could, at a push, have covered a couple of months with the money i had. Luckily i got a job within a few days.

You had access to credit.
Again, that’s really significantly more than many people have in the UK.

Access to credit is pushing it, salary and COL where i was, was high enough that i needed credit/overdraft to keep eating from one month to the next. My “lifestyle”, or at least clearing OD and CC, was dependant on overtime. It was a good job, and relatively well paid, but COL where i was increased sharply in the 2-3 years before i left.

I’m not trying to denigrate your efforts and success, it’s clearly hard earned. But it’s not an opportunity many have.

Absolutely, i’d have been better off moving from rented accom (as it was still relatively cheap back then), but lots wouldn’t been able to get CC or an overdraft, or afford a car reliable enough to drive a couple of thousand km. I was lucky that the house sold (quite literally) as i was arriving in Sweden. The situation now in the UK, 20 years later, is far far worse than it was when i left. Even if you ignore the changes due to brexit (Right to work etc).

I’m happy to report that COL here is (still) significantly lower than in the UK. Mainly driven by cheap housing stock.