I don’t understand why gravel bikes are so expensive, for £700-£850 you have a great choice of hard tails with air forks, deore group sets and hydraulic brakes. The same money for a gravel bike gets you Claris or Sora and cable brakes. Surely if you’re not paying for a suspension fork then you’d expect to have hydraulic brakes and a 105 group set. I want to get one but don’t want to spend a fortune because it would be my least used bike, they just seem overpriced to me.

Interestingly there was a discussion on retrobike re the fact we are now running 2.1 tyres just like we did in the 90s

Scene tax – like VW T5’s, Apple products etc

Because that’s what folk will pay. Do you really think it is more complicated than that?

MTB have had hydraulic discs for near on 20 years, they exist cheaply and from just about any brand.
Road/Gravel/CX are late to the market and as they are integrated into the shifters there is much less choice, cable can be integrated into any existing lever so you can have cheaper/more choice

A better comparison would probably be with road bikes – find me the £700 road bikes with discs and 105
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/endurace/al/

What is wrong with Claris or Sora? Especially as you are comparing it to deore?

As a general rule for road bikes Aluminium 105 has been over £1100 since about 2012. Yes there are deals to be had and the internet sellers are cheaper. Tiagra aluminium bikes were the cycle to work bike of choice back in the day.
But then again for a decent hardtail, with a fairly light fork you’re still looking at £1200 nowadays.
Planet X offer the Space Monkey in carbon for approx £1600, hydro brakes.
The trek checkpoint is £1700 in aluminium and with Schwalbe 35mm tyres, but the equivalent road bike is £1600 (Domane) but with Bontrager tyres.
So I’d say it’s just a case of road bikes aren’t cheap and that is with as much in house components as possible, gravel bikes are similar price and spec but with a few added non brand components pushing the price that bit higher.
(My old commuter in 2012 was a Trek Domane ALR with old 105, it was £1050)

and on the like for like…

RRP on 105 Disc Groupset is £785
I couldn’t find a RRP for Deore but SLX was £630

So expect deore to be a bit cheaper still so you are already looking for a fair bit more to get hold of your 105 groupset

Hydraulic sti groupsets are expensive. I spent £400 on the stis and calipers for my Mason, so that would leave £300 for the rest of the bike.

dawson

Subscriber
Scene tax – like VW T5’s, Apple products etc

scotroutes

Member
Because that’s what folk will pay. Do you really think it is more complicated than that?

Is that why they cost about the same as the equivalent road bike?

It might actually be a bit more too it than cynics claim,

Hydraulic sti groupsets are expensive

Even the brakes alone are eye watering. You can grab a set of deore brakes for less than half the cost of one sram hydro road/gravel brake

I’m glad I posted this as it’s cleared it up for me! I didn’t think about the difficulty of making a combined hydraulic brake and gear lever. Regarding group sets I’ve got bikes with deore, Claris and 105. I tend to think of deore and 105 as being equivalents of each other as being at the lower end but with brilliant performance (can’t fault them!), I didn’t realise there was such a cost difference. Regarding Claris, it’s just okay, it works but it’s not very refined, when I’m spending what to me is a lot of money I want to be able to tell where it’s gone.

Roughly;

XTR – Dura-Ace

XT – Ultegra

SLX – 105

Deore – Tiagra

Because that’s what folk will pay. Do you really think it is more complicated than that?

Is that why they cost about the same as the equivalent road bike?

I’ll just let you think about that.

I’ve heard people (who aren’t even usually remotely interested in cycling) saying they’re thinking of getting a gravel bike. It’s the current buzz phrase, the thing to have. That’s why they’re expensive.

Besides, I’m old skool: There’s only mountain bikes and road bikes as far as I’m concerned. Anything else is just a slight variation decided by a marketing department.

Id considered a gravel bike but instead recently bought a second hand Pinnacle lithium 4 hybrid for £140 and have upgraded the wheels and tyres.
For the £270 it owes me following new wheels , tyres, brake pads and a service it does pretty much what a gravel bike does albeit with flat bars.
A new Lithium 5 is around £500 with hydraulic discs.

A new Lithium 5 is around £500 with hydraulic discs.

Put drops on it (along with hydraulic STIs) and the price will rise a lot as others have pointed out. The key difference between a road/gravel bike and an MTB with hydraulic disks are the integrated levers.

Carbon fork on a gravel/road bike is a similar cost to a basic sus fork at that level – the sus fork can be cheaper.

Besides, I’m old skool: There’s only mountain bikes and road bikes as far as I’m concerned. Anything else is just a slight variation decided by a marketing department.

There’s an older-school from the 60s that could say they were there with gravel bikes long before MTBs existed..

In the mid 50’s there was this, well before the MTB https://www.rsf.org.uk/about-us/history-and-beginnings.html

They are still there over 60 years later. In the mid 80’s used to see them about when we were out on MTB’s.

The trek checkpoint is £1700

AL3 is £1200 with last year’s 105 hydraulic levers in 10sp

What hardtails you thinking of at that price? Are they Halfords and CRC?

105 is equivalent to SLX btw.

“105 is equivalent to SLX btw.”

In terms of positioning, sure. In terms of actual effect I’d say it’s a little above XT, with Ultegra pretty much equivalent to XTR and Dura-Ace a sort of XTR-plus-madness for rich people.

Groundhog day again,wasn’t there an identical thread not long ago where mike(quite rightly)
made the same points…or was that about weight? 🙂

Even the brakes alone are eye watering. You can grab a set of deore brakes for less than half the cost of one sram hydro road/gravel brake

Always wanted to replace my cable with hydro but agreed the after market prices were eyewatering .It was only a a couple of hundred quid more to buy a complete bike.Managed to get some Shimano hydro stis on offer at CRC for about £170 so considering you get the shifters and brakes price was reasonable compared to MTB.

It’s not just the hydraulic levers. My (basic) road bike, decent frame plus Sora kit, needs a new front wheel, brake and right lever assembly. The latter was smashed up in a crash a couple of months ago – but even Sora level levers are pretty steep compared to separate MTB shifters and brakes of the same standard. Given the back wheel and drivetrain are also pretty goosed, it almost makes more sense just to get a new bike (and yeah, it’d be a gravel bike rather than another road bike, i.e. replacing the road, not the mountain bike).

if you think it’s expensive now wait until the end of March! buy now!

It could actually be cheaper after a no deal as tariffs will be dropped.

It could actually be cheaper after a no deal as tariffs will be dropped.

Only if your using a different currency 😉

The shifters/brifters cost about 5 times the mountain equivalent. A lot don’t use hydros because you can theoretically find cable easier in the middle of nowhere on your gravel touring/adventure.

Gravel bikes also do odd combos of kit (mtb rear derailleur etc) which isn’t quite as easy to knock out.

Plus they are having a moment. People will move on to something new and they’ll drop in price.

People will move on to something new and they’ll drop in price.

The margins on gravel bikes are the same as other bikes at an equivalent price level. If anything a gravel bike at £1k from a number of brands is a good deal as it’s a competitive price point and margins there tend to be a bit lower. There’s no such thing as fashion tax, if anything it works the other way round. There’s a brand tax though, got to support those pro riders etc somehow.

So basically, it’s the carbon fork, brifters and (particularly) the hydro brakes sucking up the budget? Seems a reasonable explanation.

Dunno if this counts as a gravel bike, but it might be exactly what the OP reckons doesn’t exist…
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-energie-cyclocross-bike-apex-1×11-2019/rp-prod168781

No, wasn’t suggesting the margins were different but when demand drops and supply doesn’t (at least initally) curve moves.
I don’t believe the margin on last year’s bike colour (way) were any different but they still end up with 30% discount.

jameso

…There’s an older-school from the 60s that could say they were there with gravel bikes long before MTBs existed..

Guilty as charged. 🙂

More accurately almost every bike was gravel capable because they had the clearances.

As the demand for better braking came in, the way to get it was to have shorter reach brakes so less energy was wasted flexing the brake arms, and the only way to get that was to bring the bridges closer to to the rim (unless you used a cantilever – which only seemed to be on French bikes in my youth).

In this clip, at 17:36, one of the Taylor brothers is explaining just that. (Jack Taylor bikes were extremely well made and it’s worth watching the whole video if you’re interested in steel classics).

It’s a tax on the stupid.
Just take a look at the types of people who ride these bikes (you’ll find them on Instagram). Generally deluded middle aged men that’ve got some wild idea in their heads that they’re going to go off into the wilderness “exploring”.
Where do they live?
The South East, the most densely populated area in Europe.

It looks like the business to get into though, these lot are happy to spend several thousands of pounds on a bike for pottering round the lanes on, so long as it’s made from Titanium and called something like Resolution.

You can kind of understand the reason for spending several thousand on an MTB, even if you aren’t Steve Peat, it still gets a good hammering. But LOL, these gravel bikes; the adverts sell you a false dream. The reality is they’re just a boring road bike or a less capable mountain bike for double the price. Just get a hardtail and keep your self respect.

^ ha, yes epicyclo, applies to you and the French randonneurs equally!

It looks like the business to get into though, these lot are happy to spend several thousands of pounds on a bike for pottering round the lanes on, so long as it’s made from Titanium and called something like Resolution.

oooo swoons 😉

most capable bike I’ve owned, spanned a bigger range than most without proper compromise 🙂 No idea why you would make it out of Ti though, solid Carbon fun machine

But LOL, these gravel bikes; the adverts sell you a false dream. The reality is they’re just a boring road bike or a less capable mountain bike for double the price. Just get a hardtail and keep your self respect.

View this post on Instagram

Top of the world 🙂 @canyon

A post shared by Michael Smith (@smithmichaelw) on Sep 30, 2018 at 8:12am PDT

Nice bit of out there instagram for you 😉
The ad sold me a bike that can belt along the roads at a decent pace, get me places we used to call “XC” cover ground my road bike wouldn’t like.

To be honest it’s been about the best investment I’ve made in bikes for a while.

As a general rule for road bikes Aluminium 105 has been over £1100 since about 2012.

Erm no I paid £1k for a lovely full carbon 105 road bike last year.

Erm no I paid £1k for a lovely full carbon 105 road bike last year.

RRP or on sale?

Funkydunc,
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/search/road-racing/2012/?m=Aluminium+Alloy&p=+£1001+to+£1300
My reference wasn’t internet retailer or sale price. But a general statement from the large brands for cycle to work scheme bikes.
Example of my old commuter from 2012…
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/trek/2-3-2012
The giant defy in 2012 with 105 and rim brakes was £1000.
The Spec Allez with Tiagra was £900. 105 was £1200.
Cannondale Synapse 2012 with 105 was £1100.
Currently the 2019 Trek Checkpoint gravel bike with 105 is £1700, equivalent road bike £1750.

I’m middle aged and I live in the South East. I use one of my road bikes for gravel rides, it takes 33mm tyres. Will be getting a bike that takes 47mm tyres soon. I’ll keep my road bikes for racing on. My gravel bike will be used for commuting and for making my long rides more comfortable. Road and off road through UK, Wales, most of Spain…hey forked keep going with the generalisations.
I also have a full sus that gets used a lot and not for bridleways.

Bloody roadies clogging up out MTB forum.

Disc tax.

I reckon if someone was brave enough to manufacture a gravel bike with DECENT cable rim brake e.g. high level Mini-Vs with good pads, they could market it as lighter and cheaper than the equivalents, might remind people that rim brakes still have a place.

Problem is they’re up against a cycling media who for the past couple of years have been diligently pushing disc brakes as the only possible solution to slowing a bike down…

I reckon if someone was brave enough to manufacture a gravel bike with DECENT cable rim brake e.g. high level Mini-Vs with good pads, they could market it as lighter and cheaper than the equivalents, might remind people that rim brakes still have a place.
Problem is they’re up against a cycling media who for the past couple of years have been diligently pushing disc brakes as the only possible solution to slowing a bike down…

Yeah, but who wants to replace three wheelsets per winter?

Personally I don’t think they are expensive.

You can get a really good bike for 1k. A great bike for 2k.

When you compare to mtb and road bikes where the starting point for a good bike seems to be getting higher and higher all the time. Anything under 2k in these categories is considered entry level nowadays.