Why are downcountry hardtails so slept on by reviews?

Well, as you’d expect with my username*, I can’t let this thread pass me by without comment …

Not really sure what the OP is all about, and no idea what a downcountry HT is, but I do like my Hardtails!

My route into ‘serious’ MTB was via a Carrera Kraken -> Giant Terrago -> Boardman Team -> On One 45650b. The latter was brilliant, and a notable step up in what it was capable of over the Boardman that preceded it, and was my only MTB for a number of years.

Naively, I thought I’d never need a FS bike. I dabbled with a 26er Prophet for a bit, but didn’t really gel, so got rid and built up a Ragley BigWig with 150mm Pikes and 2.5/2.6 rubber, thinking it would ‘do everything’. And, it kind of does. But, 2 further FS bikes later, and a progression in what I want to ride (if not my skills!), I am no longer of the view that a HT is enough on its own.

However, I still have 2. The Ragley is SS, so quick local blasts in the woods and winter slop. The Ti HT is currently set up with light wheels and a carbon rigid fork as a gravel+ bike for endurance rather than enduro, and bikepacking trips, but with a forks/wheels swap, makes a decent spare trail bike.

*(no longer)hardtailonly

I think the nice ones e.g. Cotic Solaris are so expensive now you might as well just get a full sus in the sales.

Is “slept on” some young person’s speak? Anyone know what it actually means?

Is a down country HT even a thing? They just come in XC, standard, Halfords and hooligan guises don’t they? I’m now wondering if mine is down country. Will it affect the trails at all? Will they stop coming alive? Do I need to lower my travel? Adjust the size of my tyres?

The main reason you don’t see more reviews is, I’m guessing here, that the great unwashed are looking for e-bikes and full sus bikes. I only own a HT for MTB and I have no idea what category it would fall in to tbh.

Just re-read the OP. Onboarding, seriously? Onboarding for riding a bike. No wonder you like bloody stupid category names. That’s me offboarding the thread!

I broke three hardtail frames in a year and a half. Cracked head tube from repeatedly riding steps, dent in down tube where a car door was opened on me, dent in down tube from a crash.

I bought the most hardcore hardtail I could find- a 2001 cove stiffee.

I still have my Cove Handjob frame and forks out in the shed, the hooligan hardtail in the photo is an On-One, a 567 proof-of-concept. Two were built, I bought one, after it was decided that a h/t overbuilt to be able to take a 7” travel dual-crown dh fork. The top and down tubes are the same size, with a super overbuilt headtube.

No paint on it, just a thin coat of matt lacquer to cover the bare metal, you can see how good the tig welding is, but the original On-One spec included mounts for cantilever brakes on the seat stays! Very neat brazing, though.

I’ve no idea what it would take to break the bastard thing, I just wouldn’t want to be riding it at the time, though! It weighs a ton, though.

To me, “Downcountry” either FS or HT has to be light. Light enough to race XC on (maybe not at the front, but competitive). It also needs to be short travel (race XC) and fairly slack geometry (the Down bit).

• Light
• Slack
• Short travel

So realistically for a HT we are looking at Aluminium or Carbon, not steel and RS SIDs or Fox 34 SC forks. Yet be around abouts 65/66deg ish HA.

No there arent many around. I think Transition made a carbon HT a while ago. Not sure on the geo for it. I think PB had a review on a downcountry HT a while back – have a search on the site.

@Twodogs

Is “slept on” some young person’s speak? Anyone know what it actually means?

You are so not “on fleek”, blud. Or something. 😉

Downcountry just means short travel but with geometry designed to make the downhills fun not a chore, doesn’t it?

@kelvin, I think it was Levy on Pink Bike who coined it to originally describe full sus XC bikes that he and his friends had slightly overforked and upgraded the wheelset and brakes to make them a bit more capable on the descents?

I’m guessing a BFe is/ was the archetypal ‘downcountry’ hardtail, no? And Cove Handjob etc as above

I think it already existed before the “downcountry” term. It’s the same thing as a trail bike.

More capable than XC on the downs, not nearly as much travel as an enduro bike. Basically a do-it-all.

Regarding the categorisation – historically the lower cost hardtails were just budget replicas of XC race bikes but without the things like xc race tyres, light weight and so on that made them good xc bikes. so you got a twitchy farm gate that was not very good off road unless you had a lot of skill and when you tried to use it as what we nerds would call a gravel bike, it wasnt very fast either.

Now however, the current voodoo bizzango – which could well be the “my first real MTB” for the masses that think Halfords is a good bike shop – has 66.5 degree head angle with a fork that works, reach round about on trend if a tad short. proper brakes, tyres that are decent, if more suited to summer trail centre than winter sloppy laps of Wharncliffe. There are similar offerings from the big brands, spesh trek etc.

I think it already existed before the “downcountry” term. It’s the same thing as a trail bike.

More capable than XC on the downs, not nearly as much travel as an enduro bike. Basically a do-it-all.

Its more what trail used to be before it got fat and ideas of grandeur. trail seems to be 150 (possibly coil) travel and doubledown tyres these days.

So we needed something else to fill the gap between trail and xc, despite how XC race bikes have changed.

I think the average new MTB rider just wants a bike to ride off-road, and maybe ride some natural trails. Not everyone is going to ride Bike Parks and shred like the magazines/ media would have you believe.

A gravel bike or basic Hardtail will suffice for them.

I’m a member of a reasonably large club that rides every week. From what i can see from our members, those with one bike only almost exclusively ride a full sus. Those that are a bit new tend to go for longer travel full sus as it aids confidence. Those of us who ride hardtails almost always have a full sus as well which we use for bigger days out. We ride the hardtails for the simplicity of week in week out maintenance over the winter and wet weather mudfest that is british mountainbiking.

We ride the hardtails for the simplicity of week in week out maintenance over the winter and wet weather mudfest that is british mountainbiking.

Personally, owning three hardtails (plus a 180mm FS ebike and a gravel bike) none of them were bought from a maintenance perspective. I just like riding HT’s and have always had at least one alongside every FS I’ve owned

My Pipedream Sirius S6 with 120 sids feels pretty DC to me! Had a Solaris Mk2 with 120 forks….that was my first DC bike back in 2015! – Cotic were well ahead of the curve with that one.

…those with one bike only almost exclusively ride a full sus. Those that are a bit new tend to go for longer travel full sus as it aids confidence. Those of us who ride hardtails almost always have a full sus as well which we use for bigger days out. We ride the hardtails for the simplicity of week in week out maintenance over the winter and wet weather mudfest that is british mountainbiking.

Agreed, same as my group. Adding one more observation – some of our group have ebikes for bigger big days out too.

some of our group have ebikes for bigger big days out too.

We beat those guys up with sticks

And then we admit we’d all like one and buy one if they were a lot cheaper.

slept on – Wiktionary, the free dictionary

Kids eh!?

Prior to Vitus disappearing I think that cheap bikes were having a bit of a renaissance.  Deore, SLX and GX are all great.  RS 35’s are good, Z2’s are great, dropper posts are cheap and the accountants have learnt to specify top end tyres even on cheap bikes.

I think the nice ones e.g. Cotic Solaris are so expensive now you might as well just get a full sus in the sales.

On-One scandal frames are (occasionally) dirt cheap, and the full bikes are good value.  Whyte do a very similar model.

So realistically for a HT we are looking at Aluminium or Carbon, not steel and RS SIDs or Fox 34 SC forks. Yet be around abouts 65/66deg ish HA.

No there arent many around. I think Transition made a carbon HT a while ago. Not sure on the geo for it. I think PB had a review on a downcountry HT a while back – have a search on the site.

Voodoo Bizango Pro Carbon, BMC TwoStroke, Cannondale Scalpel HT.

The former is unobtanium for some reason and the latter are out and out race bikes, it’s just the designers realized 66deg head angles were faster.

I’m guessing a BFe is/ was the archetypal ‘downcountry’ hardtail, no? And Cove Handjob etc as above

Disagree, in my mind a BFe is more at the lighter end of a hardcore hardtail., the Soul/Handjob would be trail or downcountry, and then you get to actual XC bikes.