who isn't going to vote?

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  • who isn't going to vote?
  • Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    that is as good as not voting anyway.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    What even if he lives in Brighton ?

    Although I think he should make the effort and do it himself.

    Premier Icon HansRey
    Subscriber

    stupid thread.

    samuri
    Member

    Agreed, I'm not voting, green party or otherwise. I think we agreed on another thread earlier, voting slips should have a box labelled 'I think all the current political offerings are useless and/or liars/thick/****/racists so I choose to not vote for any of them'

    I'd make the time to tick that box. I guarantee if it were offered, that choice would be the most popular one. How that issue would be addressed I don't know though.

    alpin
    Member

    how many of you are thinking of not voting?

    if so, can you vote on my behalf for the Greens Party?

    cheers

    andrewh
    Member

    Can someone start a campaign to get a 'None of the above' box added to the ballot sheet? It would a landslide.
    Samuai, maybe we could add our box at the bottom?

    Kevevs
    Member

    I agree Samuri. In the meantime, I'll vote.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    The facility already exists – you can write : "I think all the current political offerings are useless and/or liars/thick/****/racists so I choose to not vote for any of them" on your ballot paper, and it will be meticulously counted along with all the other spoilt ballot papers. The total spoilt ballot papers will be declared at the declaration of the count.

    I don't think anywhere has yet achieved a 'landslide victory' for the spoilt ballot papers though.

    Still never mind – do it……if you want to waste your council's time and money.

    my dissertation is due on the 6th. before the deadline i will be writing. after the deadline i will either be writing another essay, or getting pissed.

    i doubt i will be voting…

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Do you have any idea how long it takes to vote hungry monkey ? Voting in the UK isn't like some third world country where you have to walk for an hour to the polling station, and then queue for another six before you can vote. The whole thing takes minutes – you won't have set the best part of a day to do it.

    By all means don't vote because you can't be arsed – but don't pretend that it'll be because you'll be doing other things.

    Kevevs
    Member

    You can moan about the government if you voted for them, or voted for someone else.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    it greatly reassures me that I live in a country where people are happier to vote week after week on TV reality shows but when asked to go and put a cross and a piece of paper decide it's not worth the hassle. Go and Vote even if you spoil you paper it's a vote.

    For those that don't I hope never to hear any kind of complaint as to how the country is run for the next 5 years.

    Not sure the 'if you don't vote you shouldn't moan' arguement is valid.

    Surely you should only moan if the party you don't want gets in. So if you don't want/trust/like any of the parties offerred then your only recourse is to not vote.

    This should give you the most valid reason to complain as whovever gets in was not your choice.

    Those who complain about the party they personally voted for are the ones in the wrong.

    roper
    Member

    The problem with spoiling the ballot paper is it can and probably will be reported by some news agencies as less of a protest and more of incompetence of the voter, which is not the voice of the action. If someone does not want to follow as system they see as unfair, then spoiling the paper is not voicing their concern but is still supporting the process.
    People fought and died for future generations to have the freedom to vote but they also fought and died for people to choose not to vote and use their free will and choice without persecution too.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Subscriber

    For the "none of the above" issue, how about one of those petitions online to number ten that never get any action. You know, the ones set up to empower the people while giving them nothing.

    Premier Icon MartynS
    Subscriber

    if you don't vote don't moan when you have a BNP member of parliament because they could be arsed to turn out….

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    "Agreed, I'm not voting, green party or otherwise."

    Translation:

    "I'm too lazy to even vote by post."

    bassspine
    Member

    I would never trust a politician and I reserve the right to bitch, whine and whinge about whichever untrustworthy conniving sod gets in, but I will have exercised my franchise. ffs! there's people all over the world dieing for the right to vote in a democratic election, and people in the UK spoil ( =waste) their vote or can't be arsed to get to a polling station.

    (hmm, needs more swearing and a few more capital letters to be a proper rant)

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    jam bo – Member

    that is as good as not voting anyway

    not true at all, even a little bit.

    i don't want the greens to win, but i do want them to keep their candidate deposit, so i'll vote for them (I live in a Lib dem safe seat) to bump up their vote share – hopefully over the 5% required to get their Β£500 deposit back.

    i don't want the BNP / ukip / other idiots to win, and i don't want them to get their deposit back, voting for anyone else decreases the idiot's share of the vote, making it more likely they will lose money.

    and a green vote makes a point, if the conservatives want to win here, they'll have to make moves to win green voters.

    coffeeking
    Member

    But that does mean that this time round it's a wasted vote, even if future voting may be better placed because of it. Your vote has had no effect on the outcome of how your area is controlled.

    5lab
    Member

    I live in brighton, so could vote for the greenies for ya (and it might make a difference). but I shan't be. I consider it to be a waste of my time, however small, and that whichever party is in power will have a tiny impact on my life as I just pay a lot of tax and don't use a lot of services (I'm too old for education, too young for kids).

    also, that bunch of hippies in brighton just started this up
    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/5016367.Brighton__bike_train__set_to_be_unveiled/

    which caused gridlock on the lewis road today. top marks – more fumes rather than less

    gonefishin
    Member

    if so, can you vote on my behalf for the Greens Party?

    I'm a bit concerned by this to be honest. If you're not in the UK but entitled to vote here then why did you not register for a postal or proxy vote? Alternatively if you're not entitled to vote in UK elections, then you don't get a say and really shouldn't be asking anyone to "vote on your behalf".

    As for voting Green, frankly their stance on a lot of things can be described as anti-science so there is no way I'd consider voting for them

    Premier Icon DaRC_L
    Subscriber

    yep I reckon if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain about the gov't

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    Your vote has had no effect on the outcome of how your area is controlled.

    If you live in a very safe seat the same could be said about any vote for any other party. Conservatives have a 14000 majority in my constituency so any other vote will be an irrelevance – I'd bet my house on my vote this year converting into a blue seat in the house of commons. You could say that there is a chance the conservative voters will get complaisant but evidence of 100 years of elections says otherwise.

    I was definitely in the if you don't vote you don't deserve to complain camp but the more I think about it the more I think a vote for a mainstream party is a vote in favour of the current political system. The biggest story of this election (or any election come to that) could be a mass abstention.

    On balance, I'll still vote though and vote Lib Dem, if for no other reason than to bolster their total national vote and further highlight the absurdity of the imbalance in the difference in the votes to seats ratios of the main parties.

    ourkidsam
    Member

    "I'm too lazy to even vote by post."

    My polling station is nearer than the post box

    ocrider
    Member

    I hear your pain convert. I grew up in tory safe seat constituency, so I found myself a solution: Emigrate πŸ˜€

    Anyway, no matter who you vote for, the government still win. πŸ˜‰

    DaRC_L – Member said

    yep I reckon if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain about the gov't
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    So if, for the sake of simplicity, there are 5 MP's standing in my area, and I do not agree with or want any of them, then by this standard I would still have to vote for one of them to give me the right to complain about whichever one gets in?

    RichPenny
    Member

    yep I reckon if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain about the gov't

    Nonsense, surely you can still moan about all the people who voted for the winning party, regardless of whether what they do when in power bears any resemblance to their manifesto.

    Mind you, I'm happy to not spend time moaning, especially moaning about other people not being allowed to moan about something πŸ˜‰

    IvanDobski
    Member

    I'm not voting.

    I think it's an archaic, non representative system and I'm not supporting it by turning out. A spoilt vote would just get lumped in with those of the idiots who can't colour between the lines and would have no real consequence.

    And yes "millions of people have died" for freedom but why freedom has to equate to a 3 party parliamentary stitch up in the minds of many I'll never know. Besides which more people have died for communism – does that make it right?

    Spoil your ballot, its 1 less vote for the BNP, and less chance of their getting a deposit back.

    Greens want to legalise weed, having seen the effect of heavy use over a year on my flatmate, I won't be voting for that, he doubled in weight and lost the ability to string coherent scentances together.

    Macavity
    Member

    "who isn't going to vote?"

    Who cannot vote?
    "people who have a severe mental illness and are unable to understand the voting procedure."

    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/civil_rights/voting_procedures.htm

    who was it you wanted me to vote for again? … it was a colour… er.. what colour was it?

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    I never really accept the argument that if Singletrack Magazine isn't very good I should write articles for it for free, becuase I can always not bother, and that has no effect on my life.

    For most people, who forms the government has quite a substantial effect on their lives, because government in its various forms has a substantial effect on their lives.

    You can sit around saying that you don't support or agree with any of the people putting themselves forward to be your representative in the parliament from which your government is chosen, of course. But no-one ever achieved political change by bitching and whining. If you reckon you're somehow not getting the government you feel you deserve, but also not voting then it's not that you forfeit your "right" to complain about the government. You're probably getting screwed.

    I'll always vote. And I'll vote on issues and attitudes that are important to me, and in concert with people I feel are in my tribe, or in a tribe that I respect and want the best for. And the people putting themselves forward to be our representative will listen to what I'm saying and the ones I don't usually vote for will work to get my vote from my usual lot. Because it's easier to get my vote that it is to get yours, because they don't know what you want in a representative, they may think you don't know, and you've no track record of getting off your arse to vote anyway. So they'll do things they think I'll like, and not worry about your stuff much. And you know what? The country will be basically fine. There'll still be a government. It'll be democratic to a very high standard. It will do a reasonable job of running the country. But it won't have a chance of doing what you want it to do, even if it knew or cared what you want it to do.

    It doesn't do what I want it to do all the time, and it could always be better. That's the way democracy, and indeed real life, seems to work. But I have some tiny influence through voting, and some sense that how I am governed is a project that I'm involved in. If you don't vote at all, ever, you don't even have that minimal influence. And if the country isn't being governed in the way you'd like to see you have some responsibility for that, because you didn't do the one thing you could easily, cheaply and quickly do to get that influence.

    Seems a shame to me. 😐

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    And yes "millions of people have died" for freedom but why freedom has to equate to a 3 party parliamentary stitch up in the minds of many I'll never know. Besides which more people have died for communism – does that make it right?

    The mind boggles. This is very sad. πŸ™

    IvanDobski
    Member

    Go on then, why?

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    I find it hard, quite simply, to envisage the sort of ingratitude and lack of awareness that leads someone in the UK to refuse to vote because they do not have "freedom" or because they cannot really see the difference between an open liberal society and the sort you get if people aren't allowed to choose their government in free elections.

    But I'm assuming you live in the UK. Maybe you're talking about the elections in Zimbabwe or somewhere. πŸ™‚

    EDIT: I don't care, obviously. The System will survive and won't notice. Unless you're missing out the bit about how you're not voting, but you are getting ready to de for communism. In which case I fervently hope you merely break an ankle and look a bit silly for communism instead. πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    Who cannot vote?
    "people who have a severe mental illness and are unable to understand the voting procedure."

    Wrong thread, but as an aside, not sure what I'm thinking about the latest issue in the convert household. My wife works for a charity that supports adults with severe learning difficulties. Coming across her desk on Friday was a leaflet from Mencap explaining the rights of those with learning difficulties to vote and how they should be supported in doing so. All worthy stuff and for those with mild issues eminently sensible. But for some…..the images in my head would not go down well with some of the PC brigade that work there. I can just see some centre manager feeling honour bound to wheel the centre's residents down for a day trip to the polling booth. I can categorically say in the odd hour that I spend weekly supporting a lad down there I've never had conversations about worldly issues. Fortunately I only go down there at the weekend & polling day is mid week so not my concern. I guess he will not be the only constituent without a lot of knowledge to make his mark. I'm sure common sense will prevail.

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    That's an interesting one convert. I think if those with profound learning difficulties were a major force in British politics I'd want to look at the issue pretty hard. But until that point I reckon treating people with learning difficulties as much like everyone else as possible is the right way to go. As you say, a lot of people's ideas about why they are voting in a particular way wouldn't survive a lot of rational scrutiny.

    IvanDobski
    Member

    I think you probably misunderstood the intention of my post, which is probably because I tried to keep it short instead of ranting on.

    Basically I don't see the current system as being the pinnacle of the democratic process and that it has a lot of room for improvement. Unfortunately part of the improvement would (imho) come about with the scrapping of party led politics (which political parties are unlikely to introduce), the introduction of greater accountability to the public beyond one vote every 5 years and more power to individuals via referendums etc.

    So whilst we do (thankfully) have free elections and our system is much better than that of many countries around the world I don't believe it's the be all and end all of democracy. As such I'll exercise the freedoms others paid for and not vote for a system I don't believe in. Obviously I acknowledge that if I was more motivated I could further exercise these freedoms by campaigning to change the system.

    In a nutshell then –

    Whilst being thankful that we've got freedom as a concept I don't agree with the current system with which that freedom is implemented…

    The line about communism was just to illustrate the flaws in the idea that somehow it's numbers of dead that decide the legitimacy of a system which is inherent in the "millions have died" argument often used to try and shame people into voting.

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    Fair enough. I don't know. I honestly can't help feeling that the change you want is unlikely to be achieved by not voting though. The trouble to my mind is that not voting doesn't send a message that can be easily deciphered by anyone.

    This, absolutely: if I was more motivated I could further exercise these freedoms by campaigning to change the system, but I reckon I'd be voting until I'd got the energy.

    And apologies, to the extent that I made the mistake of taking you for an idiot. πŸ™‚

    IvanDobski
    Member

    I genuinely believe one easily implemented idea which would make a difference would be a proper "none of the above" option with a list of reasons why to choose from. I think that the politicians would be shocked by the amount of people who would bother to register a real and clearly identifiable protest vote.

    As for taking me for an idiot – don't worry, you're not the first. Unfortunately πŸ™ πŸ˜‰

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