White lines

I would love to support my locally grown, curated, organic, art is anal, free range, holistic lifecycle, responsibly sourced, carbon neutral sniffsmiths, but I don’t touch the stuff.

Experience from the front lines here. Decorating a student house yesterday, 3 of us, come 4pm, coffee break. Lovely.

Ironically the house had featured on the BBC earlier this year being entered by the Police with their big red key, so I suppose I’m profiting from the drugs trade in my own way.

Another sheltered life here, it’s never even crossed my radar.  Not feeling any FOMO.

Yes and no. I don’t feel like I’ve missed out by not having gone further than a bit of hash in my 20s, but on the other hand I’ve never tried so IDK if I have or not. I joked at a party in my 30s that I’d like to try it once my kids have grown up and if it all went shit shaped then there would be less fallout, I’m still curious. If I knew it was safe and controlled I still wonder from time to time what mdma, coke, speed and acid would be like. Particularly the last two as they have inspired (if that’s the right word) much of the music that I enjoy.

I’m still curious. If I knew it was safe and controlled I still wonder from time to time what mdma, coke, speed and acid would be like.

But if you gave in to that curiosity, aside from it being ‘safe and controlled’ from a personal POV. Would you have any qualms about contributing to the wider harm done by those that produce, traffick and supply it?  Not having a go, I am genuinely interested in the thought processes around this.

I honestly don’t think most people give the provenance of what they’re shoving up their nose any more thought than they would a tin of beans they pick up off a supermarket shelf.

They gave a bloke called Kev a WhatsApp message, who seems like a nice lad and he popped round and dropped it off for them ten minutes later.

That’s the reality of drug use in the UK. I’m not condoning it, just pointing out the matter of fact banality of it nowadays. If you’re 20 years old and you’re off out and ‘avin it on a Friday night with your mates, you’re not thoughtfully mulling over the chaos in the border towns in Mexico.

The same as if you’re smoking a spliff, you’re not thinking about the 14 year old Thai lad who was trafficked into the UK to be held hostage to grow it in a weed farm in a terraced street in Salford. Or if you’re picking up one of the many products containing palm oil in your average supermarket, you’re probably not thinking about the deforestation of the Amazon Rainforest

Thats the reality of modern consumer capitalism that we’ve all been conditioned and desensitised too, unfortunately

But I thought the people on STW are different and do care about these things! The bandying around of some of the street names for these drugs (which I’ve no clue as to what they mean) indicates that perhaps there is still some interest in the current “market”?

As I said, I’m not condoning it, I’m just trying to explain how we got here. Having a cheeky few lines on a Friday night in the pub was already normalised when I was in my 20’s and believe me my friend, that was a long time ago.

The banal and normalised reality of drug use in the UK is a million miles away from that which the Daily Mail portrays with their mythical Mr Big and getting chopped up with zombie knives on some dodgy estate.

The reality is the bloke called Kev on the end of a WhatsApp message who’s not that different from you or me. He’s just trying to make a living and is providing a service and product that people want. His weekends won’t be that different from someone doing deliveries for Just Eat. It’s just the packages are smaller, the profits higher and the potential risks greater

perhaps there is still some interest in the current “market”?

I could rhyme off multiple strains of weed. Never touched it in my life.

perhaps there is still some interest in the current “market”?

Not a chance. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I couldn’t even contemplate the come downs and ‘Tragic Tuesdays’. I’d much rather have a nice Malbec and a cheese board 😀

At the same time, I’m not going to pass judgement on the 20 year olds playing pool in my local on a Friday night after work, who are nipping to the bog every ten minutes, before I go home to watch Gogglebox with a glass of wine and they head into Manchester to ‘Ave It Large!’ They’re decent lads, despite their unthinking funding of columbian cartels

@binners

The reality is the bloke called Kev on the end of a WhatsApp message who’s not that different from you or me. He’s just trying to make a living and is providing a service and product that people want. His weekends won’t be that different from someone doing deliveries for Just Eat. It’s just the packages are smaller, the profits higher and the potential risks greater

I’m not sure it’s quite that casual any more, and even when it was you didn’t have to go more than a link or two up the chain to find some seriously unpleasant people.

I’m not sure it’s quite that casual any more

It really is. It’s absolutely endemic in society at every level. It’s decades since I was doing it but I know full well that if I decided I wanted to re-live my youth and have a big night on the chop, it would take me approximately 5 minutes and a quick text message to have enough drugs to fell a herd of elephants delivered for the evening.

It’ll be from a nice guy, not some Yardie, who’ll meet you in the pub and have a chat about the footy for 5 minutes before discreetly passing you the goods then leaving to do the same at the next pub down the road

Like I said, I’m not condoning it, but I’m not hypocritical enough to condemn it either, as 30 years ago I was one of those lads playing pool on a Friday night and nipping for a cheeky bump

*raises hand*

My name is Houns and I think of deforestation and try my best not to buy products containing palm oil.

Coke to get up & get the work in. Weed to bring you back down. It’s a problem. Far too many drivers on the road found with both in their system.

Coke use at football matches has also contributed to the growing levels of violence at games. It’s cheaper than alcohol for the high you get & easy to get into the ground.

So, yeah, it’s an issue alright.

@binners, I think I, more than most, am probably aware of how endemic drug use and misuse is in our society.

The person who you meet in the pub will likely be an acquaintance of a mate. They may or may not be vulnerable themselves, or they may just be supporting their own habit, but the person that they’re bulk buying from will almost certainly be vulnerable, usually either groomed, dependent or both, and the person above them will be seriously nasty.

Disappointing to see that, according to some at least, knowing something about a topic implies approval of said topic.

Being able to see the world how it is doesn’t mean we approve of how it is.

I’ve not seen anyone here actually state they still partake in a bag or two but for a few it seems just having done so in the past make them worthy of a good sneer from the drug free ivory tower.

I’m still curious. If I knew it was safe and controlled I still wonder from time to time what mdma, coke, speed and acid would be like.

The thing is, you can’t miss what you don’t know.  I’m curious at an intellectual level, but I never would because I know full well I’d spend the rest of my life wanting more.  Maybe if I was terminally ill or something.

@binners

I honestly don’t think most people give the provenance of what they’re shoving up their nose any more thought than they would a tin of beans they pick up off a supermarket shelf.

That’s a very bleak summation and sadly I think you are right, up to a point.  Lots of people give zero thought to the consequences of their actions or purchasing decisions.  Or worse – they selfishly acknowledge the harm done, but prioritise their personal gratification over it.  Be it palm oil, choosing a mashoosive w@nkpanzer for the school run or buying class A drugs.

I take a more optimistic view. We all have a negative impact on the planet and other people, to some degree. It’s impossible to completely negate this. Many people (most maybe) do recognise this and at least give it some thought.  Increasingly people are a little more curious about the provenance and ethics of things they consume and maybe even change their behaviour a little.  Maybe I’m naive, but I think (hope) those that abjectly refuse to even contemplate the misery and negative impact caused, as long as they get their weekend jollies are in a minority.

It really is. It’s absolutely endemic in society at every level.

Is it though?  I’m 60, I went to a shit comprehensive in the North and I’ve lived in Scotland, Ireland, half a dozen places all over England and overseas.  I’ve been a soldier, civil servant, charity worker.  I just don’t come across it to any significant degree.  None of my mates now or in the past are/were openly using recreational drugs.  One or two tried a bit of weed at uni or whatever but that’s about it.

@blokeuptheroad may I ask how old you are?

@blokeuptheroad may I ask how old you are?

You may.  I’m 60, and I suppose that might be part of the reason why my experience seems so different to many on here. I’m genuinely interested in hearing other perspectives though.

@binners I’m sure “Kev” is a lovely bloke, taken a serious wrong turn in life though. The  reality of the drugs chain is as I said earlier is death and serious violence and coercion. If I suspect any drugs activity I have no qualms about reporting it, it’s the blind eye that helps the activity become normalised. I have a close relative who works in the enforcement side of things, I fear for her safety on a daily basis. I can assure you that “Kev” might be a lovely cuddly chap but the next thugs in the chain aren’t. I implore the people of STW to report drugs use and dealing wherever you see it, or suspect it. In the OP’s position I’d have advised my son not to return to the job (a drug conviction sort of prevents you becoming a teacher), and I would report the drug use.

I’m still curious. If I knew it was safe and controlled I still wonder from time to time what mdma, coke, speed and acid would be like.

That sounds just like our nights out in Glasgow, more so the after party where such a cocktail would find you ending up having a pleasant but surreal sat/sun afternoon in Queens park as it was a short wander from our mates top floor flats in Allison st, miss those days.

For balance here, I should add that when I was young and naive (and stupid) I worked behind the bar at the Hacienda at the height of the ‘Gunchester’ madness, in the company of some extremely dubious people , so theres not much you can tell me about the violence associated with the supply of drugs. I’ve witnessed it first hand, been in some frankly terrifying situations and have physically witnessed absolutely sickening levels of violence. I know how this works, better than most.

My point is that the link between the scary big dealers and cartels and the bloke having a line in the pub bogs has now been so completely broken that most people (present company excepted) make no association between the two at all. Just as most people picking up a product from a supermarket shelf containing palm oil will be totally oblivious to the deforestation of the rain forest which got it there. Picking up an 8 ball of chop is like picking up a multipack of Monster Munch from a 24 hour garage. It really is that easy. If I wanted to prove that to you, it would take me half an hour, tops. And I’m hardly the target demographic.

I implore the people of STW to report drugs use and dealing wherever you see it, or suspect it.

While I admire the intent, it would be completely and utterly pointless. Believeing that policing will stop drug use in our socitey is like throwing your shoes at the clouds to try and stop it raining. Has any other endevour carried out by mankind failed as spectaculrly and completely as the ‘War on Drugs’? Seriously?

That fight was lost in the most dramatic fashion imaginable 40 years ago and its been all downhill since then. Governments around the world have poured literally trillions and trillions to try and stop the supply and it hasn’t made one scrap of difference. Its been the most pointless exercise in human history.

We need to stop the madness of repeating the same totally failed experiment time after time after time and expecting a different result. Its never worked and it never will. Lets go over the top one more time… heres an idea… lets not.

We need to completely change the entire model. It isn’t the drugs that are the problem, its the present manner in which they are supplied. All the present situation does is empower and reward with vast wealth the very worst people, fuel sickening violence and death and destroy lives and entoire societies

We need education, we need a safe regulated legal supply of thes substances because if the last 40 years have taught us anything, the ‘just say no’ aproach has been comprehensively rejected by millions who want these drugs and while thats the case, somebody will always be more than happy to supply them. We need to deal with the world as it is, not as how we’d like it to be. We need to acknowledge the true level of the failure and try somethign totally differeent. For everyones sake

•Rant over*

There is more agreement on this thread than a quick scan might suggest.  I agree with most of your ‘rant’ binners.  War on drugs has failed? Check. Safe regulated supply needed? Check. etc. etc.

I don’t have a moral issue with people choosing to take recreational drugs where there is little or no impact on others.  If someone is growing their own weed for personal consumption or consuming magic mushrooms they’ve picked themselves then I’ve no issues. I wouldn’t have an issue with someone using cocaine if it was available legally and there were checks and balances to prevent them using it whilst (for example) up a tree with a chainsaw!  But – in your own words:

We need to deal with the world as it is, not as how we’d like it to be.

It’s not legal and safely controlled – much as we’d wish it to be. My issue is with otherwise intelligent people wilfully turning a blind eye to the significant harm caused by the supply chain as it exists now, and prioritising their personal gratification over it.  You keep saying people don’t make that connection.  That leaves two possibilities. Either they are just a bit thick, which I don’t buy or they just don’t care.

My issue is with otherwise intelligent people wilfully turning a blind eye to the significant harm caused by the supply chain as it exists now, and prioritising their personal gratification over it.  You keep saying people don’t make that connection.  That leaves two possibilities. Either they are just a bit thick, which I don’t buy or they just don’t care

You could make the same claim (somewhat tenuously I admit) towards unfettered capitalism, factory farming practices, conflicts over mineral resources whether they be diamond mines/copper mines/lithium resources etc.

The truth is somewhat blurry as there is an industrial and financial complex built around the war on drugs and it is incredibly profitable for governments around the world to keep the status quo.

Lots of people give zero thought to the consequences of their actions or purchasing decisions. Or worse – they selfishly acknowledge the harm done, but prioritise their personal gratification over it.

Well said.

We all make these ethical decisions, every one of us, continually. To a degree, choice comes with privilege. Why do people buy battery eggs over free range? Because they’re cheaper and some folk can’t afford not to. It’s very easy to take the moral high ground when you’re in a position where an extra 30p on half a dozen unfertilised chicken ovulations doesn’t matter; but to some people, it does.

I once had two mates fall out over a discussion about car tyres. Mate A was buying ditchfinders, petrolhead Mate B took the stance of “I wouldn’t risk my family’s lives like that” and an argument ensued. The fact of the matter was, Mate A couldn’t afford anything else. Mate B later apologised.

The flipside of this of course is, if we are sufficiently privileged to afford nice things, we’re still making those choices. Air travel is bad for the environment, but the alternative is not having two weeks in Costa Del Bollocks once a year and we’ve earned that, right? I could buy Fair Trade coffee, but it tastes like crap so I’ll stick with my preferred slave labour brand. The qPhone 76 Ultra Pro Max Turbonutterbastard is probably constructed in sweatshops by children earning 10 Yuan an hour, but it has a 2 gigapixel camera! And so on and so forth and things of this nature.

We all make choices, all the time. Sometimes out of necessity; sometimes by informed decision; sometimes by “**** it, I don’t care.” And then we see fit to justify our righteousness by judging others who fall on either side of some arbitrary moral code line that we’ve pulled out of our arse. In the red corner we’ve got Barry who’s on the dole yet has a flat screen TV, the bastard. In the blue corner we have investment banker Tarquin with his yacht, the bastard.

As a wise computer once said, “A curious game.  The only winning move is not to play.”

@blokeuptheroad I think it was since the Acid House and free party scene in the eighties that they’ve become ubiquitous.

 I think it was since the Acid House and free party scene in the eighties that they’ve become ubiquitous.

I initially read that as “free party scone” and thought “this is suddenly relevant to my interests, I’ve missed out!”

You could make the same claim (somewhat tenuously I admit) towards unfettered capitalism, factory farming practices, conflicts over mineral resources whether they be diamond mines/copper mines/lithium resources etc.

You could, but that risks accusations of whataboutery in a thread about cocaine use.  This bad thing doesn’t matter because that unrelated bad thing over there is also happening.  But as you raise it, plenty of people do try very hard to minimise their impact on those things through their purchasing choices and, as with drugs of dubious provenance some just don’t give a flying ****.

The truth is somewhat blurry as there is an industrial and financial complex built around the war on drugs and it is incredibly profitable for governments around the world to keep the status quo.

That may be true, but it doesn’t absolve us of the negative impacts of our personal choices

@blokeuptheroad I think it was since the Acid House and free party scene in the eighties that they’ve become ubiquitous.

I think you may be right and I was already in uniform when that happened so it passed me by.

@blokeuptheroad – as you say you’ve never dabbled yourself, I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Its actually self-evident and shouldn’t need stating. Its what this whole argument hinges on. Its the one thing ‘they’ don’t want you to know. The truth that dare not speak its name….

*whisper it*…

Taking drugs is absolutely bloody brilliant fun!

There… I’ve said it

If it wasn’t, people wouldn’t do it. Thats why literally millions in this country do it every weeekend.

I was lucky enough to be hitting adulthood, living in Manchester when the whole acid house/Madchester thing exploded. What I still believe to be the largest cutural upheaval of my lifetime and I was slap bang in the middle of it. What a result, eh? Like all my mates and what seemed like the entire population of the north west, under the age of 30, I spent the first half of the 90’s absolutely ripped to the tits on industrial quantities of MDMA and marching powder. And do you know what… we had an absolute ball!! It was fantastic!

I won’t bore you and go into detail about what a time we had, while going all misty eyed but I don’t regret a single second of it. We had the time of our lives. Drugs and warehouse parties were an absolute epithany to me and changed my life forever, for the better. I have amazing memories of that time. And without ecstacy (the most accurately titled product ever made) it would never have happened.

Then we all grew up, got proper jobs, got married, had kids and moved on with our lives. Nobody died. Even Shaun Ryder and Bez are still alive and now considered national treasures

So there you have it… thats what the elephant in the room is. And thats why the war on drugs is completely pointless and can never be won. We’re human and we’re hedonistic and we crave these things. Sorry/not sorry 😀

Binners, all well and good and I don’t doubt that you had a good time.  I’m pleased for you.

Nobody died.

Maybe not those using it, but  are you absolutely sure no one in the supply chain that fed the demand created by you and your mates was harmed because of it?

Of course I’m not!

But that isn’t the issue.

Just to repeat… drugs are not the problem!

Its about supply and demand. We know that theres a virtually limitless demand, but what about the supply?

The present farcical situation where illigality and the myopic idiocy of western governments and their totally bankrupt ‘War on Drugs’, to cede control of the entire supply chain to criminal cartels is the problem. Pure and simple.

Do you think anyone is happy knowing they’re financing tyranical criminal organisation? Of course they’re not!

But any sensible alternative is denied to us by the present ludicrous and nosensical legal impasse. Grasp the nettle and sort the elephant in the room out and your problem, while not beng solved, is made managable. FFS just imagine the tax take from legalising it and taxing it like alcohol while ensuring the quality and purity of the supply

Not rocket science, is it?

I’m sorry, but that’s a massive cop out.  Neither you, nor I have the power to make that happen, however much we might wish to.  “World as it is, not how we might wish it to be” remember.  So in the world as it is, you and others are (or were) by your own admission willing to accept harm to others as collateral damage for your recreational choices?

Binners, you come across as being intelligent. Didn’t you and your mates make the link between the guns, the violence and the supply of drugs?

you and others are (or were) by your own admission willing to accept harm to others as collateral damage for your recreational choices?

Read what I’ve written. You’ve concluded the polar opposite of what I’ve actually said.

Nobody should come to harm through the supply of drugs. But as it stands, what option do we have? There are no safe and legal options available for what is a vast and unquenchable. demand. Presently the ludicrous and completely failed aproach of our governments make human suffering and death absolutely inevitable. We have created the worst of all worlds. It doesn’t have to be this way.

The supply chain should be taken completely out of the hands of the crimainal cartels, regulated, managed and taxed by governments, just the same as alcohol. Because what we know for sure is that trying to stop the demand is like trying to hold back the sea. It has always failed and always will, because it denies basic human desires and you’ll always be on a hiding to nothing when trying to do that

While our society continues to bury its head in the sand and remain in complete denial about the facts, then the situation in places from South America to the housing estates of South London can only get worse.

And do you know what… we had an absolute ball!! It was fantastic!

Stop it binners, I’m getting all misty eyed…….absofec*inlutely lived for the weekend, as did every single person from my town i knew and partied with.

Go out on a Friday night with a group of mates whether that be to a secret rave in Galloway hills, to a club in Glasgow, Manchester or anywhere in the country and you’d meet up with total strangers by catching someone’s eye as they are dancing away/coming up and before you know it you’ve spent the night dancing away like loons in the company of folk you’ve never met before.

There was a genuine sense of community amongst everyone and it led to lifelong friendships and opportunities to put on our own festivals (Wickerman/Eden) and get involved in others.

The supply chain should be taken completely out of the hands of the crimainal cartels, regulated, managed and taxed by governments, just the same as alcohol

Again! Yes it SHOULD.  I’m agreeing with you.  But, key point.  Because that hasn’t happened yet, choosing to buy them CURRENTLY makes a person complicit in the misery, violence etc the CURRENT supply chain causes.  A purchase which is a recreational choice, a purchase which is not essential but motivated by being “bloody brilliant fun”.

@somafunk – amen to that brother. I actually feel a bit sorry for anyone who never got to experience it

My daughter is doing a creative writing degree and she interviewed me about my time in the Hacienda for a piece she was doing on the cultural importance of the Acid House scene. She’s well jealous of not having been there and experienced it herself. It was a moment in history and we rinsed every last drop out of it. What a time to be alive 🙂

But if you gave in to that curiosity, aside from it being ‘safe and controlled’ from a personal POV. Would you have any qualms about contributing to the wider harm done by those that produce, traffick and supply it?  Not having a go, I am genuinely interested in the thought processes around this.

If I did it, it would be with intellectual intent and no desire of being addicted either physiologically or recreationally. On the basis one pill or one acid tab isn’t going to really affect the global drug supply balance, the potential harms don’t enter into it for me, it’s purely (selfishly if you will) ‘I wonder what it’s like’. As Binners has said, and I’m similar age to him, plenty who were there found it fantastic, so while I was keeping myself clear headed in prep for the weekend’s sport, and then a few pints after the game, others were having a fantastic time.

FOMO – maybe, but more curiosity; YOLO and to depart this rock having never tried something that millions report is insanely good, just seems weird.

I’m going to bow out of this now.  It’s been a frank exchange of views, but I don’t think anyone has changed their minds because of it.  Have a good weekend all, however you plan to fuel it.

Again! Yes it SHOULD. I’m agreeing with you. But, key point. Because that hasn’t happened yet, choosing to buy them CURRENTLY makes a person complicit in the misery, violence etc the CURRENT supply chain causes. A purchase which is a recreational choice, a purchase which is not essential but motivated by being “bloody brilliant fun”.

We’ve tried the ‘can everyone stop enjoying themselves please’ aproach fro deacdes. How do you think its working out?

@blokeuptheroad – not having a pop at you at all. Our personal experiences are clearly very different on this and our opinions accordingly. Have a good weeknd, fella. On that note, I think I’ll head out on the bike for a bit. I may well have a pint or two afterwards and go all misty-eyed about the days when I’d have still been on it from Friday night 🙂