- This topic has 38 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by TheLittlestHobo.
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Which Bottom Bracket?
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neilnevillFree Member
Common question I know, but having searched the forum I've not found any recent threads on this.
Found on Sunday that the HTII BB on the full susser has seized solid, so need a new one. Not exactly impressed as there had been no signs of wear…..but last use was several months ago and it was a few days of very very wet riding so I guess the water and muck got in and it has rusted to hell or clagged with..err..clag. Poo.
Now I can't remember which BB is on that bike, I think its an XT….in which case the enduro bearings on the other bike are still running fine having had more use and been on the bike about the same time so I'm thinking – I need some more enduro bearings. However before I order I wanted to know how people are fairing with the ceramic things or anything else that is out there at the moment. Not interested in CK or Hope prices (unless someone knows where I can get them at the same sort of price as a new shimano xt that is). Is there anything super amazing out there, or do I just order some more stainless steel enduro bearings and get my hammer and drift out again?
z1ppyFull Memberphil woods bearing from Sideway are ace but the price has gone up quite a lot….
I'd try taking the current set apart 1st and try cleaning them, lots of thread on t-internet about how to do this…
ei:
http://www.fettling.co.uk/aspbite/articles/articles.asp?intArticlesID=47craig1975Free MemberIt's a pity your not interested in the hope one's Cu's they are very, very good BB's, Ive had mine for nearly 2 years now and it's done a hell of a lot of treks, out in all sorts off weather, and it's still going strong!! I check the bearings every now and then and there still minted, in fact there the only bearing's that haven't needed a service on my entire full sus.
foxyriderFree MemberI had a HTII BB – and same happened – I think I left it and didn't ride it for a while as got a new full suss – went back and the rust has started – I think a combination of no using it and hose pipe cleans – I cleaned it out and unsiezed them and keept them for emergencies but replaced with a hope BB (stainless)!
neilnevillFree Memberyeah its the sitting around not being ridden that has killed this one, it had no play, no noisiness and has just suddenly seized. I'll fit something new and have a go and flushing the bearings clean to keep for refitting if it works…although by the time I've drifted them out of the cups to press new ones in they probably won't be in A1 condition.
I'm interested in Hope or CK BBs, just not in the prices 😉 On bikes that I'm riding regularly I get a couple of years use from XT BBs, if I knew a Hope BB would last 4 or 5 years and reach the same VFM I'd buy it. Maybe, hopefully, they will. I had hoped shimano would have got better at these by now…their square taper were (are) so much more durable and less than 2/3rds the price. Next time I need a new crank for any reason I can see myself getting a middleburn and stocking up on a couple of shimano square taper BBs before they get impossible to find.
MisterTFull Memberyou pay your money and make your choice.. cheap BB such as XT are throw away items that are not easy to service (if at all)
Hope stainless BB is very good value for money (£55 quid from CRC today) and only £20 quid more than XT… but the fact you can easily service (add new grease) to Hope BB means it should never seize like your XT one did (those XT BB' are renound for doing that in my riding group)
I think it's a false economy going for anything other than a Stainless Hope BB at the moment.
bigyinnFree MemberInteresting, how do you service the hope ones? Pop the rubber bearing cover off and pop more grease in there?
DaveGrFree MemberTried 2 ceramic Hope BB's and neither has lasted very long before needing stripping/cleaning – last one was five rides/24 hours and no pressure washer used – so IMO they aren't worth it. Shimano XT lasted a bit longer @ 20 rides/80 hours.
I reckon there must be some bearings available from a non bike related supplier which will do the job at much less cost.
billybobFree MemberAcross ceramic one here… still going strong since last autumn, seems to be surviving summer as well..
giantjasonFree MemberI have a hope ss bb and has lasted for a year and I have had no trouble. As someone else said, you get what you pay for
neilnevillFree Memberpop the rubber bearing cover and pop more grease in…..sounds remarkably like what you can do with the shimano units, although doing that with any 'sealed' bearing means the seals won't last long afterwards. Wouldn't it be nice though to have a BB that lasted a good few years with no need to service, since shimano spoilt us rotten with cheap and robust square taper bbs I've come to want that and its disappointing to have to pay several times as much for no more, or often less service from HT2. Oh well.
I agree that you often get what you pay for but DaveGr above doesn't seem to be alone with tales of Hope or other more expensive BBs that die pretty fast sometimes. Might try a hope anyway at 55 quid, I know their customer service is excellent if there is a problem.
neilnevillFree MemberJust checked CRC, 68/73mm shell width are £61….getting very close to twice the price of a xt unit, and 3 times the price of a set of enduro bearings from BETD. Looks like its the enduro bearings again.
MisterTFull Memberthe woes of ceramic BB should not be confused with stainless BB.. Ceramic bearings need more servicing and more frequent greasing (not exactly sure why) but I know that they are more sensitive when lacking lube. I have Sram ceramic BB on my road bike and they state you need to regrease after 50hrs dry riding or after EVERY wet ride!
as for re-sealing Hope, they are designed to be regreased and fully serviceable and thus the double seals are designed to be opened and resealed. unlike Shimano.
I know it's only one persons testing, but I have tried XT, XTR, FSA, PhilWood & raceface… most of which lasted just 6 months around here (peak district) and PhilWood being the longest lasting a hole year. but I moved to hope BB's 18mth ago and just regreased every 6 mths. so I now use Hope SS BB's on all 3 mtb's.. I have definitely saved money since having those Hope units.
HairychestedFree MemberWhy not consider SKF bearings? Their ISIS lasts forever so HT2 should too.
tangobravoFree Memberjust to add the reason that HT2 seize is galvanic corrosion. Stainless steel still galvanically corrodes, so that aint gonna solve the problem!
The bigger bearing versions (hope/enduro) last lots longer, but once they fail they rip up your axle and right your cranks off.
But the biggest killer is poor bearing tensioning, but nobody will admit they dont read the instructions will they…
tinsyFree MemberJust bought a Deore one from Wooly hat shop on fleabay for £19 they fit the XT as far as I know, at least thats what mine is going on.
I would have changed the bearings but for under £20 thought this was worth a punt.
carlphillipsFree Memberor you can go see matey (can't remember his name) on the classifieds and get 4 shitmano bb's all sealed and new for £50, you can't beat that vfm even if they only last 6months!!!
generally though before he was selling i buy the enduro bearings and have a tool for extracting them, then its only £20 a BB, and mine have lasted ages so far.
kiwi_stuFree MemberI have been using the Hope ceramic bottom bracket now for about 16 months now. Early on had a problem with the spacers falling apart (fixed under warranty) but bearing still going strong.
Before that I was using Shimano XT HT2 bottom brackets and the longest they would last is 3 months. But I do believe Shimano has improved there HT2 bottom brackets since.
But I will buy another Hope ceramic bottom bracket.
neilnevillFree MemberI've seen the guy selling BBs on the classifieds and emailed him. Unfortunately he doesn't know what BB they are, if they are xt then its a great deal, if they are lx or below the bearings are narrower and don't last so long (sometimes) and crc sell deore ht2 at a cheaper price than he quoted me so I decided against it. Definately a good deal if they are xt though.
I'd wondered what would happen when the enduro bearings fail as they don't run that little plastic thingy, the possibility of axle damage had crossed my mind. However my experience of failures is either:
a. The seals work (in the riding being performed) and the BB lasts a couple of years before the bearings start to wear. At which point a small a mount of play becomes apparent. Hopefully you noitce this because if you don't then the play/wobble tends to force the non-drive side crank arm off and can lead to damage of the axle splines – crank written off; or
b. the seals fail for some reason, and the bearing rusts or clogs up and seizes. This is pretty obvious. It can be freed up sometimes by simply riding, but this possibly risks damaging the axle if the bearing isn't spinning freely and the bearings are probably not going to last long if they've rusted of clogged up anyway, so overall probably not worth the risk.Does anybody else wish shimano still made their old square taper design xt crank? 😉
Munqe-chickFree Member(Mr MC posting)
the cheap ones in classifieds are road ones which are a mm or so wider than MTB (discussed in another thread by a frustrated buyer).Ive just used the "fettling" link to service my XT HT2 (thanks z1ppy for posting it, I thought it might be that simple but hadnt tried it), and its obvious using the same procedure I can knock the bearings out. So I have ordered some bearings (6805 2RS) and will be rebuilding them myself, which I guess is what BETD/Enduro do.
For more anal examination see
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikebottombrackets.htmI dont get ceramic bearings which still have a stainless race which will still corrode, you need either full ceramic ($$$) or similar coated races like the Token
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=38625
tinsyFree MemberHow much were your bearing MC, and do you have a link to your supplier, I will re build my XT one while the £19 Deore one is on it so I have a spare ready to go.
DezBFree MemberBut the biggest killer is poor bearing tensioning, but nobody will admit they dont read the instructions will they…
There must be something else people are doing! Shimano XTR 2.5years (sold on, still running smoothly), Shimano XT (in the winter hardtail) still going strong, bought second hand just under 2 years ago with the cranks.
Raceface Deus, looked like it was going to be as shortlived as the rumours – after 2 rides grease and dirt were gathering round the seals. Months later, still fine.
Roadbike: Shimano mid-range thing – commutes 2-3 times a week in all weathers, still smooth as new. Forgotten when I bought it.I really don't believe STWers are jet-washing or spraying GT85 on their BBs, but what are you doing wrong??!
DezBFree MemberDoes anybody else wish shimano still made their old square taper design xt crank?
NO!
Munqe-chickFree Membertinsy, I went for cheap bearings from ebay, first one that popped up when I searched bearing, seller is GAP Bearings, £4.50 for 2 freepost.
couldve spent considerably more on SKF etc (£12+ each), but as its an experiment, and shimano and RF use cheap unbranded stuff I thought I'd give these a try. I was surprised how easy it was to open up following the instructions, on about the second tap with a screwdriver the plastic sleeve/seal popped out intact, and pressed back in with a g clamp.
jimFree MemberI really don't believe STWers are jet-washing or spraying GT85 on their BBs, but what are you doing wrong??!
Water sitting inside the bb shell certainly plays a significant part. Ingress from the outside does matter too though, as I've found the more protected drive-side bearing generally fairs better than the non-drive-side.
neilnevillFree MemberMr MC, knocking the bearings out with a hammer and a screw driver is possible. Its a bit more of a faff than prizing off the plastic cover as there is an annoying lip in the alloy cup which makes things awkward, but it is posible. IIRC I took a file to the lip in a couple of spots while the bearings were out, so knocking out the enduro bearings when they fail should be slightly easier next time.
Munqe-chickFree Memberneilnevill, cheers for the heads-up. After I'd knocked out the plastic cover I gave the bearing a few exploratory whacks and it clearly budged, so I thought for £4.50 compared to the cost of every other option its a worthwhile experiment. I like tinkering and fettling (Mrs MC refers to the "garage fairy" that seems to miraculously clean and fix her bike…) and if I also save a few quid then job done!
snapsFree MemberI've got a couple of pairs of SKF 618052RS bearings left after a group buy on another forum if anyone wants some – £15/pair posted.
DaveGrFree MemberI really don't believe STWers are jet-washing or spraying GT85 on their BBs, but what are you doing wrong??!
I've sometimes fitted them, sometimes it's been the lbs and on more than one bike but they still don't last long so don't think it's the fitting. I think it might be down to the length/type of riding I do – long weekends riding 16+ hours or 12/24 solo races could mean that there is a build up of crud that slowly works it's way in rather than being cleaned each time after a short ride.
Might also go away from the Hope style large bearings and back to the Shimano ones as I've had marking on an axle when the bearings have stiffened up during a long race.
But then again the square taper on the SS just keeps going and going…..
neilnevillFree Membersnaps, I'll take a pair of those please…email on its way. 🙂
samuriFree MemberFor more anal examination see
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikebottombrackets.htmWell that link was a severe disappointment!
mtbtomoFree MemberI think it depends what bike you're using. As Jim says water in the BB shell plays a big part, every time I take out a seized BB, there is water in the bb shell, and after a muddy wet ride if I take out the seatpost and tip the bike up, water comes out.
Maybe this partly relates to forward or rear facing seat clamps. Mine is rear facing in the firing line of water spray….
Can't be rocket science to design a system that works – there are bearing systems engineered to work in much more adverse conditions that on a push bike??!?
DaveGrFree MemberCan't be rocket science to design a system that works
it's a system that's
– cheap to produce but can be sold at a premium
– quick / easy to fit so reduces cost there
– doesn't last as long as older BBs so they can sell more replacements (see point 1)looks like the system "works" in that it produces more money for the manufacturers just uses more of our limited Earth's resources and isn't very good for the consumer.
TheLittlestHoboFree MemberJust ordered four of them bearings for my old worn out bb's. The SSC cups are a lot easier to remove the bearings from btw. I now have 2 x bb's for £9
TheLittlestHoboFree MemberBearings have arrived and cant see any issues with them. Pressed straight into the old SSC cups and the added bonus is the SSC top hats fit inside them. So i wont have to worry about the cranks running metal to metal 🙂
Reckon i have as good a set of bearings in them as the originals for £4.50 which makes them great value.
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