I rented a house a few months ago through a letting agent on a fully managed basis. The windows were a little worse for wear so it was agreed at the time of renting that they would be sorted before we moved in. They were not sorted by the time we moved in but I had assurances that they would be.

There was a little painting and filling done 2 months or so ago but when doing this the chap discovered that one of the windows was rotten through. The landlady agreed that this needed to be sorted ASAP and told me she would get back to me. She didn’t.

I just tried to call the Letting agent to chase them on this and they have informed me that they no longer manage the property and are now just taking rent, all management is to be done by the landlady. I was not told about this at the time and I am pretty annoyed about it.

I reckon this represents a sufficient change in the terms of the contract to make it null and void. there are issues with the property that are not being resolved in what I would call a timely manner and meanwhile I am still expected to pay the rent for what was a managed contract.

Given the increased risk of unprofessional behaviour, the lower costs of renting incurred by her and the slackness we have had to deal with so far, what are my options for:

Getting the work that has been promised done?
Negotiating the rent down as a result of the change in management of the property?

Can I argue that I the management contract was of tangible value and therefore I no longer need to pay it?

Can I withhold rent until the work is done? In the absence of a valid contract or a secure home, I am wondering why I pay the rent at all.

I am increasingly angry about this and wondered what the STW massive thought about this from both a moral and legal perspective.

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

Cue the STW battle of Renters versus Landlords 🙂

She should have told you that she was now managing the property though. Not sure what you could do – inform letting agent that you are canceling direct debits/standing orders until the issues are resolved?

Wouldn’t have thought how she chooses to manage the property is any of your business. The obligation is till on her to maintain it though- whether or not she uses an agent.

how long left on your rental agreement?
EDIT – I am a landlord, but not by choice and I’m not rubbish. Why not offer to get someone in and take the cost off your rent? Offer though, don’t demand…yet

Sorry Tormianlis that post is too long for my useless attention span to read in one sitting.

So apologies if you’ve already tried this…. send her loads of pictures of catz?

9 months left on the agreement.

The point is though that I signed a contract with the letting agent, on their headed notepaper and with their signatures on the bottom of it. They are no longer managing the property and the contract has no bearing on the actual real life situation any more.

When you rent a fully managed property the management element of it boosts the price, in exchange for which you get service level agreements, office hours responses when you need to contact them, the reassurance of a limited company etc.

I no longer have those benefits but am still paying the price of a fully managed property. If she was actually managing the property this would not be a problem.

Do I have legal rights to call her out on breach of contract?

withhold the rent until the work is done

unless you are renting off my girlfriend then pay the rent now or me and the boys will pay you a visit

send her loads of pictures of catz

More likely to send her some cat by-products at this rate.

me and the boys will pay you a visit

And you will be taking a little holiday with Bubba before you can say ‘extortion’.

Does the lease metion it is fully managed or not? If yes then go back to the letting agent, they are the ones responsible, they are the ones who you have a contract with.
Normally I would never suggest witholding rent but in this instance I would.

Im having fun and games with my landlord at the moment, over little things, its annoying when the property was managed by an external company any issues where sorted straight away but now the landlord manages himself, it takes forever to get things sorted.

Currently we have no fridge as its broke, been without for 3 weeks, its part of the rental agreement that a fridge would be supplied and replaced if broke, but still no replacement. His excuse today was that he couldn’t find one that fits in the gap, i said ok will have a look and txt him links, i found 4 in the space of 5 mins, so ive txt him the details. Still waiting, i have said to him if we don’t get it sorted this week, i would take it from next months rent and sort it myself, he wasn’t too happy but promised he would sort it out.

Did you sign the agreement with her or the agent?

I did similar with my flat as the agent was useless – wasn’t benefitting me or the tenant. The tenant was a bit thick and kept calling the agent out for stupid things like replacing lightbulbs and unblocking toilets (deliberately blocked) because the agent had peed him off about something. Agent just did everything and billed me.

Ended up visiting the tenant (who I hadn’t met) and telling them to behave, then sacking the agent. Could only sack the agent as the contract with them had expired i.e. a minimum term had elapsed.

From experience (sometimes bitter) the law tends to favour the tenant. Would have thought a final letter to her with a request for repair by a certain date or you will move out should give you the moral high ground.

Wouldn’t have thought how she chooses to manage the property is any of your business

except that you need to know who to contact if you have any problems.

Did you sign the agreement with her or the agent?

First thing I am going to check when I get home. It was certainly drawn up by the letting agent and is on their headed paper. Thing is, no matter whom I signed it with, the terms have now changed as I am no longer afforded the benefits of working through an independent limited company.

It feels like the only power I have is to withhold rent. I hate other people sometimes.

The point is though that I signed a contract with the letting agent

If this is the case – that the parties to the contract are you and the letting agent – then the letting agent is your landlord.

If the parties to the contract are you and the lady owner then the fact it’s on headed paper is irrelevant.

I’m not sure what you mean by a ‘fully managed property’. Sounds like Agent speak to me. All landlords are required to fully manage the property they rent out regardless of if they have an agent or not. I don’t know of any Professional Letting Agents. Indeed, I know many agents who have little or no idea of relevant renting laws.

I’d forget about the change in the agent’s role. As already said how the landlord chooses to mange their property is their choice. As long as it’s managed.

Now, the what is the issue with the window? Is it just unsightly or is it broken?

Assuming that it is broken and that this is the only issue with the property then you need to inform the landlord that it needs to be replaced. You need to do this formally, a phone call or text message will not do. You can include in this that it has been two months since the fault was first notified to them.

You also need to include a deadline by which time the window is to be repaired. Two weeks seems fair but as you haven’t mentioned if there are any special circumstances – conservation area, listed building etc… – then this may need to be longer. Add that if the work is not completed in this time then you will carry out the repair and deduct the monies from your rent payments.

If the work is not done then do it and deduct the money from your rent.

Do not withold any rent as sugested above.

ETA: I suspect that the agreement will list the landlord’s responsibilities rather than listing specific persons (other than the parties to the contract). The agreement may have a term ‘the landlord or their agents’ or similar but also have a clause allowing for the landlord to change their agent.

I’m not sure what you mean by a ‘fully managed property’

It was agreed and I considered it to be a benefit of the arrangement that the agency would be responsible for all matters relating to the maintenance of the property and its fixtures. I would have expected to pay less if I was dealing with a private individual.

Now, the what is the issue with the window? Is it just unsightly or is it broken?

It is a sash window and the bottom part of it has rotted away entirely along with part of the sill. There is a hole approximately 3 inches by 6 inches. I currently have it gaffer taped up to prevent the elements from getting in.

If the work is not done then do it and deduct the money from your rent.

Sounds like very sensible advice, thankyou.

Do not withold any rent as sugested above.

For any specific legal reason or just a dislike for confrontational tactics?

In the contract I seem to remember that the manager of the property is duty bound to maintain all external fixtures. If that is not done then is there reason that I should feel compelled to fulfil my responsibilities as determined by the contract?

I appreciate the cool headed response so thanks for taking the time mk1fan. I am not feeling very temperate at the moment so excuse my hot headedness.

HTH x

For any specific legal reason or just a dislike for confrontational tactics?

It’s the easiest way for a Landlord to evict a tenant. The result of this eviction could be an upheld claim for damages for payment of the remaining rent (in your case 9-months). Courts tend to ignore the behaviour of the Landlord (regardless of how bad) if the Tenant has witheld rent.

Your interpretation / view of the rental market is not in line with the actual market. I’d forget about change in agent status.

It sounds like a very strange rental agreement you have signed.

We signed a contract with a letting agent for a flat. 6 months in we got a letter asking us to transfer to the landlord with same terms but paying rent to him, but they had to have a signature to do this. I know one of the occupants of the flats in our block refused and was still with the original agent when we moved out.

It sounds like a very strange rental agreement you have signed.

If it sounds that way it is probably my inarticulate recounting of it, it was a very standard tenancy agreement in which the manager of the property (be they the landlady or the agency) agreed to maintain the external fixtures and fittings of the property amongst other things.

It may have been my mistake that I valued dealing with an agency higher than dealing with a private landlord but I have had problems with private landlords in the past (and agencies to be fair, but they always have procedures for handling grievances).

I have never heard of a tenancy being managed thru and agent being more expensive or worth more.

Do not withhold rent without getting real legal advice that you can do this. It just puts you in the wrong.

The result of this eviction could be an upheld claim for damages for payment of the remaining rent

Unlikely. Teh landlord has a duty to mitigate the losses and you only have to pay the actual loses incurred.

From experience (sometimes bitter) the law tends to favour the tenant.

Not really. No security of tenure nor protection from extortionate rents. the balance used to be in favour of the tenet but changes to the law in the 80s shifted it very much in the landlords favour.

Reference the perceived additional cost using agent rather than dealing direct with landlord. The agent is acting on behalf of the owner for which they receive a fee or commission from the owner. They are not acting on your behalf and therefore do not charge you for this service. Theoretically, it is the landlord who is earning less by using an agent rather than the tenant paying more.

Theoretically, it is the landlord who is earning less by using an agent rather than the tenant paying more.

Theoretically yes, but in practice they will just put the rent up surely? Is having a managed service on a flat not a benefit that can be equated to a value? I thought so.

Unlikely. Teh landlord has a duty to mitigate the losses and you only have to pay the actual loses incurred.

The cap of the loss would be the value of the remaining term in this case 9-months plus the cost of early re-advertisment. The LL may not re-let the property for 12-months. The LLs duty to mitigate losses is to make reasonable efforts to let the property. There’s no reason why a claim for the remainder of the rent would not held – after the term of expiry of course – if the property had not re-let.

when i was a student we had rubbish letting agents; we regulary had to hold rent to make them sort things out, legal things, not minor things. now i would be more inclined to take legal advice.

how is your deposit held? If it is not through one of the government approved schemes (only three exist deposit protection, deposit insurance, deposit insurance 2)then the landlady is breaking the law, could be used as a bargaining lever to get her going on the work that needs doing
government guidelines on deposit protection

how is your deposit held?

The deposit is held in the Deposit protection scheme and is all above board and kosher.

@Tormalis

I think the value thing as regards using an agent would depend on the area. Massive demand for rental property and a landlord could easily raise the rent and offload the responsibility of management to an agent thus covering their extra costs (considerable at that). We used an agent as we had small kids and not enough time to do what I would consider a good job. Changed that view when the agent was more of a pain than the tenants! We didn’t increase the rent – just took the hit ourselves.
The fact that difficulties arise is nothing to do with being a tenant or a landlord – its people in general. You only have to spend 5 minutes on this forum to realise how large the gulf is between what is considered reasonable or unreasonable. If the situation were reversed, she would probably be a bad tenant as well

The fact that difficulties arise is nothing to do with being a tenant or a landlord – its people in general. You only have to spend 5 minutes on this forum to realise how large the gulf is between what is considered reasonable or unreasonable. If the situation were reversed, she would probably be a bad tenant as well

How true …it’s also a fact that many people have very little integrity and their standards change depending on the position they find themselves in . Personally I get sick of it and people in general thinking any old thing will do (until they are on the receiving end of a bad or unfair situation )
rant over 👿

I should have added that if you carryout the repair yourself then you’ll need to pass on the paid invoice / receipt for the works to the landlord.

Do this via with a covering letter showing the works done, the maths deducting it from the rent and the remainder of the rent due. This should be done on the due date for the rent. Do not fall into arrears.

If the repair costs more than a months rent than the letter should state when and how much the next rent payment will be.

Amused by the idea that an agent would bring more professionalism and competency to the situation ! Not in my experience, as both a landlord and a tenant, they are universally pants. You pick the level of pants-ness you can tolerate.

Amused by the idea that an agent would bring more professionalism and competency to the situation

Yep, I know. Silly me.

Amused by the idea that an agent would bring more professionalism and competency to the situation

Me too – my agency were absolutely shocking when I rented.

Just threaten to withhold rent and if that doesn’t work then actually do – it might not be fully legal but it’s usually the only thing that will give shady landlords a kick up the arse.

First of all – do you rent in Scotland?

If so, you have a legitimate above-board option which doesn’t involve you spending your own money on repairs of withholding rent. Don’t know if this applies in England, but you can find all the information you need here:

http://www.shelter.org.uk/

Anyway, in Scotland, first of all your rented property MUST meet a minimum standard. Generally, this means that the property is wind and water proof. The landlord MUST maintain this standard, and should agree to do so within your lease (which will be signed with the landlord, not the agent). When you sign a lease, you MUST also be supplied with a letter from your landlord stating that the tenant can apply to the Private Rented Housing Panel in the event of the landlord refusing to carry out work, which you consider necessary i.e. work required to maintain the minimum standard. The PRHP, if they decide in your favour, will then force the landlord to undertake the necessary work,. This should not cost you a penny. You should also have an inventory of the property, stating the condition of the furnishings and structure as a record to compare against when you move out and you are claiming your deposit back.

From how you have described your window, you have a good case to contact the PRHP, but I would recommend writing to your landlady first outlining your concerns, the timeframe within which you expect repairs to be carried out, and what action you will take (PRHP) if she does not comply.

The issue of having a ‘managed property’ or whatever bollocks they sold to you at the time is irrelevant. Tenancy agreements are signed with the landlord, and it is their duty to meet all their obligations, not the agent. The agent is simply there as a go-between or to deal with day-to-day stuff. It is regrettable that they didn’t tell you of a change of situation, but at the end of the day all it means is a change of contact. It shouldn’t change anything else (let alone knocking money off your lease).

Hope this helps, and I’d recommend looking at the Shelter link I gave above.

Good luck! (from someone who’s been through this before…)

As Kit says check your contract as my last rental contract had a bit in it about the flat being kept wind and water tight and some stuff about the heating. when we called up to complain about a leak in the roof and a window not closing properly and mentioned the wind and water tight bit they had someone round the next day to get the stuff asseed and fixed as soon as so we could not with hold rent.

First of all – do you rent in Scotland?

Hell no, I could afford a whole town in Scotland! [sorry, still a bit carried away from the failure thread]

I checked the contract last night. It is signed with the landlady so you are all correct.

On the upside, I spoke to the landlady yesterday and informed her of my concerns. She has given notice notice to the agency as they are rubbish and we have agreed to split the difference of what she was paying per month (which equates to a £65 monthly discount for me! hurrah!).

She is coming over on Sunday to have another look at the window, at which point, I will inform her that I intend to have the work carried out myself and deduct it from the bill if it is not sorted by Christmas.

Thanks for the input all, feeling much less agitated now.

Theoretically yes, but in practice they will just put the rent up surely? Is having a managed service on a flat not a benefit that can be equated to a value? I thought so.

It’s a benefit for the landlord but not the tenant. It certainly shouldn’t result in them charging (or you paying) more than market rate for the property.

Result!