As a means of (attempted) murder it leaves a whole lot to chance. This is at the same level of conspiracy as using a Fiat Uno to cause a road accident in the hope of killing a couple of passengers in another vehicle.

Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.

Thats true. However considering most things which come out of his mouth is utter shite I am not sure this is of any real significance.

Considering how potent it is, is it really scotroutes?

Putting something in her cosmetics or a present for her father/memento related to her brother’s death isn’t that big a gamble. Obviously there’s a risk of others being hurt too (as happened) but a very high chance that the intended victim(s) would suffer. I just don’t see the need for some elaborate conspiracy theory when there is a fairly obvious solution.

There is a lot about this situation that makes absolutely no sense to me. Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.

Yeah but did he simply state it, or did he paint it on a bus?

Well, I think it is somewhat significant.  Just because it came out of the mouth on a moronic man-child doesn’t mean it didn’t come from the British government.  If it was just a BJ moment then someone at the government needs to come out with a statement saying so as soon as possible.

Even with Litvinenko the government never came right out as said it was Putin (even though in that case it almost certainly was) so why the total lack of diplomacy this time around.

Why is ‘Russia killed him’ not also an elaborate conspiracy theory?

Because Russia has developed weapons of this type, and has a history of assassinating people it considers enemies, see eg litvinenko. And the daughter travelled from Russia just prior to the event which provides an obvious vector. Basically, it would be easy for russia to do it, and it’s the sort of thing they do.

Not least of which is Boris Johnson saying that Putin personally ordered it.

Thats true. However considering most things which come out of his mouth is utter shite I am not sure this is of any real significance.

Indeed, flaccid BloHard spouting horsecrap again.. and again.. and again.. 4 times he’s been sacked for lying, clearly this government supports liers and cheats.

Just because BloJob says something, doesn’t mean it necessarily has to be wrong. I agree it’s reason to be suspicious but every so often he must tell the truth by accident if nothing else.

Because Russia has developed weapons of this type, and has a history of assassinating people it considers enemies, see eg litvinenko. And the daughter travelled from Russia just prior to the event which provides an obvious vector. Basically, it would be easy for russia to do it, and it’s the sort of thing they do.

See. Absolutely foolproof.

If you ignore the fact that they are still alive and the cause identified back to the source.

Why do you have to ignore the fact that they are alive? It’s pretty obvious that this was an attempt on their lives and they were lucky to survive (so far). What has that got to do with who did it?

Are you seriously trying to argue that it was some sort of accident? Hard to see the relevance of the youtube clip otherwise.

Seems like a lot of trouble to assassinate a couple of Russian expats.

surely putin could have sent over some Russian drivers…

“but they were in a lift/ swimming pool/ changing rooms at the squash court when the car struck them”

…nothing suspicious there.

could be that the governments trying to change the composition of the chem-trails to something that won’t kill all the bees but causes breathing difficulties in some people.

salisbury was just a trial run. Hell we can match the craziest Russian scientists in the chemical warfare game.

Sigh….as others have said…and me actually….there is plenty of motive for Putins brand of realpolitik to include messages like the one that has been sent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552

UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.

After being given a suspended sentence for another count of fraud in 2006, he fled to the UK to seek political asylum and became a critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Mr Glushkov also had a close friendship with fellow Russian businessman Boris Berezovsky, who came to the UK in 1999 after falling out with Mr Putin.

Mr Berezovsky was found hanged in the bathroom of his Berkshire home in 2013 and an inquest recorded an open verdict.

why the total lack of diplomacy this time around

Because last time TM was Weak & Wobbly on the issue, so now she’s over-compensating

UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.

Why do we need an expensive and lengthy investigation when it’s clear who did it? Just ask Boris.

I suppose Glushkov was just having a dangerwank and went a bit far too.

Has anyone found any actual evidence yet?

Well there’s one corpse with (apparently) indications of strangulation and three seriously ill people (apparently) poisoned by a nerve agent. That’s quite a lot of evidence to be going on with. I haven’t seen any of it myself but it’s stretching credulity to pretend it’s all fabricated.

so why the total lack of diplomacy this time around.

Because May et al have neither the skill nor the wherewithal to conduct international diplomacy. See Brexit for many many examples.

You want diplomacy? You’ve seen who our foreign secretary and defence secretary are, right?

I thought this was quite interesting,

Resident Chelsie Croes, 21, said: “They came to our house asking to check the wi-fi. The police wanted to check our internet routers. They didn’t say why they were doing it. I don’t know if they wanted to find out if we had been hacked into.”

So, as far as we know she’s innocent yet she’s had something of hers that holds some pretty personal data checked over. This doesn’t sit easy with me. We know the government can access our internet data but if say, she had transferred some private videos of her Jilling off, from one computer to another within her home, and named that filename something obvious like Making a fish finger sandwich, then this would be shown in the log files of her router, potentially.

Does this set a precedent? Literally nothing is private.

Don’t worry. Theresa May proved when she was Home Secretary that she’s a massive respect for civil liberties

Apparently it was Israel after all

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

Seems like a lot of trouble to assassinate a couple of Russian expats.

I almost think they’re collateral themselves. If it’s Russia (quack, etc), then it seems apparent that it serves two other purposes:

1) Sends a message to all other defectors that they are not and will never be safe

2) Sends a message to the UK government that Russia can and will act on UK soil, and frankly, there’s nothing the UK can do about it

I was having a conversation the other night about the general intelligence of political leaders. Putin is definitely one of the smartest alive presently. He might be one of the smartest in recent history full stop.

Putin just needs to get reelected and then pull a Xi Jinping to remove term limits, how he has engineered that I can’t fathom

Whilst I’m not a fan of Corbyn, the fact that he his being roundly barracked by the more warlike politicians and right wing press, makes me think that he may be correct in his condemnation, but also in his call for caution.

And members of his own party, from comments I’ve heard on the news.

Because May et al have neither the skill nor the wherewithal to conduct international diplomacy. See Brexit for many many examples.

And what, pray tell, did diplomacy do in the previous examples of seeming state-sanctioned assassination in the U.K.?

Tzar Putin acts the tough-guy, but he’s little more than your average school-yard bully, picking on and provoking others into retaliation then acting then claiming they’re the innocent party and everyone disrespects them when all they want is to have everyone love them.

Like in Ukraine, and shooting down another country’s passenger jet.

Putin ran the KGB, he’s a master of this sort of behaviour, in destabilising governments and manipulating people, and it seems there are a significant number here who are easily manipulated as well.

Can I just check I have this right:

The attack happened in Salisbury which also happens to be where Porton Down is located?

If there is anywhere in the UK this substance is likely to have been stored or manufactured for testing it is in Porton Down?

Try looking at a map; Porton Down isn’t in Salisbury it’s on Salisbury Plain, a sodding great area of chalk downland that makes up most of Wiltshire, which is why much of the British military has its bases there, for training and live firing, and it’s why Porton Down is there, so it’s out of the way of the places people actually live.

Do some research, it’s what Google is good at!

Here’s Porton Down’s location, it’s ‘near’ Salisbury, relatively speaking, but not ‘in’

And for the real conspiracy folk, there’s even a village not far away called Palestine, right on the top right of this map:

@thecaptain

Evidence of foul play – absolutely. But specifically Russia?? None that I have seen or that has been offered up.

Would I put it past Russia – no.

But would I put it past the UK, Israel, the US or others? Er, no also.

All have form as being sneaky b*****ds and most Governments are as crooked as sin – especially those named above.

The West needs is ‘baddy’. Russia are conveniently that. They need to be maintained as such so that the agenda can continue to be pushed to allow continually increased military spending, allow unquestioned or balanced surveillance on the people and allow the general suppression of civil liberties whilst all the time ensuring that the rampant debt based consumerism required to perpetually keep the capitalist ponzy scheme is propped up.

I have no doubt that Russia quite enjoys its position as No.1 baddy too which doesn’t help the situation!

One country is run by an actual Bond villain and the other a schoolteacher. Did you see the dude they wheeled out for the security council?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I rest my **** case lol

It’s Friday and I’m pissed but yall **** hilarious.

And remember guys, when in doubt, blame Israel. Also bankers and that evil shithead Blair.

All those lovely lunatics like Putin, Saddam, Kohmeni, Gaddafi duck, Pol Pot, Castro, Velupillai Prabhakaran – they’re just all misunderstood bros. We all want to get along really. And even if they are evil shitbags, it’s because we’re evil – so we can’t complain – let’s just let them all kill each other. It’s kind of fun to watch all the fuzzy wuzzies go all killey, rapey and mustard gassey anyway.

And if we interfere in that, it’s definitely because….. neocolonialism for oil.

The West needs is ‘baddy’. Russia are conveniently that. They need to be maintained as such so that the agenda can continue to be pushed to allow continually increased military spending, allow unquestioned or balanced surveillance on the people and allow the general suppression of civil liberties whilst all the time ensuring that the rampant debt based consumerism required to perpetually keep the capitalist ponzy scheme is propped up.

Riiggghhhht – that military spending that has been decimated since the height of the cold war (3.8% of GPD) and now stands at less than 2 %.

But yes, the British military industrial complex is definitely on the warpath with it’s budget that is roughly half the yearly budget of the NHS.

The idea that the uk govt planned all this…to make itself look helpless and friendless… lol

….with it’s budget that is roughly half the yearly budget of the NHS.

Frankly it would be a much better use of the money if the NHS’s budget was 10x that of the military

I have seen no evidence offered it was Russia.  I think thats the most likely explanation but not the only possible one

Actually, I did check google maps.  23 miles.  About half an hour’s drive, in fact.

I didn’t think I was suggesting Porton Down was in Salisbury.  Given the fact it’s a village itself I thought that would be obvious but I guess if you’re just looking for flaws any excuse will do.

You realise that you’re just sounding desperate when you use sarcasm to say anyone who questions the government’s line is being moronic? Absolutely nothing has been ‘proved’ and not asking questions about your government’s motives is a dangerous road.

Frankly it would be a much better use of the money if the NHS’s budget was 10x that of the military

It’s more like a quarter of the NHS budget.

The proof that points to Russia is the specific type of Novichok nerve agent used, a type only ever produced by Russia and nobody else. The types of Novichok agents produced by other countries were different and all had different signatures so easy to identify the source of the agent.

So the two possible scenarios are Russia did it (either ordered by Putin or not…doesn’t matter, Putin is still as culpable in both those cases), or somebody else has started to produce the specific Russian recipe of Novichok nerve agent to make it look like Russia. Only a significant government has the capability to do that. It’s not that easy even for a significant government.

Dismissing the second scenario….i.e. the UK, US or other significant nation did this, then that leaves only one viable possibility….Russia.

May hasn’t actually directly accused Russia, she’s said words like, ‘it is highly probable’ (forget what BJ and others have said, that’s just a side show), so Russia is suspected as the evidence points to them. Russia also has significant history and form in this area with bumping people off using poisons, and they (Putin) have motive. What we don’t have is a clear idea of the means….how the agent was delivered….we’re still investigating that and trying to understand that. It might be the case we will never be able to establish this. This is exactly why poisons are the weapons of choice for assassins….you can administer them to the target and by the time the target dies both they and the assassin are far away from the actual site the poison was administered so very hard to trace and establish who was involved any how the act was carried out.

However while all this goes on we can’t ignore the the fact that the evidence means that almost ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’ the Kremlin is responsible, so we’ve initiated some mild sanctions by expelling their intelligence officers…a shot across the bow while we gather more understanding about how the agent was actually administered.

Or we could do what Putin wants and engage in more dialogue and he’ll play us like a fiddle like he has with everyone for decades.. i.e. we either play Putins game, which hasn’t worked so far, or we try something different.

Putin is a Psychopathic Dictator of the worse kind. I really don’t understand why so many people are so willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also I don’t understand the conspiracy theories too…so the UK somehow managed to manufacture some ‘Russian’ Novichok and tried to bump off an ex-russian spy and his daughter as part of some elaborate plan for whatever (I don’t know) reason. We then managed to convince a pro-Russian maverick US President to believe, or at least, go along with us and for the first time in his administration criticise Russia. And similarly with an anti-UK French President who would sieze upon the opportunity to discredit and embarrass the UK. If this were all true then that would demonstrate international manoeuvring of the most sophisticated and skilful type that no other leader of any nation has ever demonstrated. It would be extraordinary if May, of all people, had pulled this off.

No. I think the most plausible explanation is that Putin did it.

A quick update on what’s happening in Salisbury

The kettle is on in the bike shop. Henderson’s have finished baking, the shelves are now full (Try the seeded farmhouse). The smaller Reeve’s hasn’t got a queue if you fancy a sausage and egg roll. Excellent cake in the Fisherton Mill for later. The market is up, too, try Wilton Wholefoods for herbs and spices. In short, life goes on!

🙂