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As others had said, depends if tipping more to xc or more to trail. All the good options seem to have been mentioned on this thread when i was looking but i settled on a Rapide FS when i bought in December for xc with some trails (surrey hills mainly) & marathon (sdw etc).
Was also looking at Intense Sniper xc/tr but was a lot more money for similar component spec
Idle thought
Maybe i could replace the frame on my very uncool Canyon Neuron CF8 with a Transition Spur frame
Frame retail price is £1500 more than my bike cost, gulp
The00 - Question was what short travel bike and why, whilst weight may be important to you, it’s maybe less of a consideration to others. Depends what you want from your short travel bike.
Question was what short travel bike and why, whilst weight may be important to you, it’s maybe less of a consideration to others. Depends what you want from your short travel bike.
Yep. OP needs to clarify really.
Was also looking at Intense Sniper xc/tr but was a lot more money for similar component spec
I've a Sniper XC & it's really rather good. It's more than happy at just about any XC course I've ridden. Th only time it felt out of its depth was at Cwmcarn on the rockier red trails. Just felt a touch frail & needing more travel. The TR version with a bit more travel & beefier rear triangle is very appealing - problem is only room for 1 bottle.
I love my 2016 Kona HeiHei Trail DL. 100mm at the rear and with 120mm rebas and a 2degree slackset with a 170mm dropper it's so versatile - quick and nimble but also capable (within elegant riding limits rather than just smashing thorugh big stuff).
The current models also look pretty tasty to me.
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I’ve a Sniper XC & it’s really rather good. It’s more than happy at just about any XC course I’ve ridden. Th only time it felt out of its depth was at Cwmcarn on the rockier red trails. Just felt a touch frail & needing more travel. The TR version with a bit more travel & beefier rear triangle is very appealing – problem is only room for 1 bottle.
Cwmcarn reds aren’t that rocky though really - I’ve ridden it on my 140mm forked hardtail and I was still fairly quick round it. I think geometry helps though - my hardtail has the same reach as the medium sniper xc and a 2 degree slacker head angle / 40mm more fork travel (which in turn gives more stack / a higher front end).
I think that’s why shorter travel fs trail bikes can be nearly as quick as an enduro bike in a lot of scenarios (until it get proper rough) as if they have decent geometry that can go a long way.
I hadn’t read this post, but I agree [that short travel bikes should be light]
I'm of the opinion that most riders should probably get a 150mm do-everything full sus. Of course it depends what trails you're riding. However, I'm gonna post in defence of the short-travel-but-robust bike. I'm just one person, and I'm pretty atypical in terms of what I like riding - I'm happy challenging myself on climbs or racing mates down Enduro style trails but I also love picking my way slowly over rocks in a fusion of trials and MTB.
I have a 5010 (140mm front, 125?mm rear) built up with 35mm width wheels, strong tyres and inserts. It's not a heavy bike, and compared to most 160mm travel bikes, it's a fair bit lighter. But it's also not a lightweight XC whippet. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't race, and don't intend to (although a wheel & tyre swap could make this a speedy XC machine).
I wanted a bike that I could chuck off anything that came my way, and hammer down the rocky bridleways near me without worrying about my wheels. I've had lightweight bikes in the past, and they're fun but noticeably flexy and I felt they were holding me back from certain things. I might brake earlier, or opt out of a gap or drop or whatever - for fear of breaking the bike. But I like how direct and precise I can be on a shorter travel bike. For techy climbs and pretending to ride like Danny MacAskill, shorter travel just is better. For railing turns in wooded singletrack, less is still more. If that's what you do more of, the best compromise might well be short travel with the precision that brings, but also strength to not break things.
I think that’s why shorter travel fs trail bikes can be nearly as quick as an enduro bike in a lot of scenarios (until it get proper rough) as if they have decent geometry that can go a long way.
Also this 👆
Agree, or 125mm at a push.
130mm Aether 9 or Stumpjumper aren’t short travel bikes. 140mm Hugene definitely isn’t!
For me the Epic Evo is still a bit XC, the Stumpy frame comes in lighter than the Spur as well.
The smuggler I had before was a lump, over 4kg for the frame (carbon was over 3kg) and it didn't pedal all that well, felt really sluggish and when pointing it downhill, the back end struggled to keep up.
Cwmcarn reds aren’t that rocky though really – I’ve ridden it on my 140mm forked hardtail and I was still fairly quick round it. I think geometry helps though – my hardtail has the same reach as the medium sniper xc and a 2 degree slacker head angle / 40mm more fork travel (which in turn gives more stack / a higher front end).
I think that’s why shorter travel fs trail bikes can be nearly as quick as an enduro bike in a lot of scenarios (until it get proper rough) as if they have decent geometry that can go a long way.
I've ridden it on 130mm FS & it's no bother but at full chat on 100mm FS it is a very different story. The bike just felt a touch flimsy & lightweight for what was being asked of it. The geo is a massive help & for XC when descending it adds a margin for comfort & safety that makes a huge difference. It's just that 100mm has its limits. I'm a big fan of short travel FS bikes & I reckon the sweet spot (for me) is probably around 120mm. I think they have a huge performance envelope like you say..
I’m gonna post in defence of the short-travel-but-robust bike
I firmly agree. The *best* bike I have ever owned was an Orange ST4 - 110mm/120mm, but robust, an early low and slack bike (not long though...). It was an absolute riot on your average trails. It had hovercraft mode - felt like a 2.5 tyre that was low pressure, but then had 'enough' in reserve to take the edge of hits, without wallowing or moving much when pedalling. It was also slightly overbuilt and noticeably tracked better than my Sub5.
What is a modern ST4? Maybe a Cotic Flaremax?
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/6209/6066665788_efb1f4db84_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/6209/6066665788_efb1f4db84_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/af6fo1 ]Exif_JPEG_PICTURE[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/3591/3360080935_cba7c3f553_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/3591/3360080935_cba7c3f553_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/67VhZV ]Orange ST4[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt[/url], on Flickr
@Ogden - these threads should actually be called “I want a Transition Spur, but can’t get/afford/wait for one so what else is there that’s similar?”
The Spur is a great bike, had a spin on one and loved it. Transition have always been really good to deal with when my Wife had her 3 bikes
(Lars used to reply to emails ASAP and was quick to advise on anything I needed).
They do suffer from the “North America brand tax” like Santa Cruz, Rocky Mountain, etc though
The smuggler I had before was a lump, over 4kg for the frame (carbon was over 3kg) and it didn’t pedal all that well, felt really sluggish and when pointing it downhill, the back end struggled to keep up.
I put a CCDB air (piggyback) shock on mine and it was incredible, but I've since had much longer-travel bikes which climbed quicker than the 115mm Smuggler
😀
To add to the debate on weight being a key factor I went trawling for the STW review of the Atherton AM130 (which I'd nominate if stretching the travel numbers a touch):
<h3>DW6 FTW</h3>
The geometry and the DW6 linkage completely and utterly override any fanciful theoretical sluggishness that some people assume may be present on a bike that weighs 14.5kg. The <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">AM.150</span> covers ground extremely efficiently and extremely quickly.I lost count of the number of times that I found myself much further ahead of my riding partners than I expected to be. I often found that I was talking to myself instead assuming my co-riders were much closer to my rear wheel than they actually were. I don’t mean this as a cringey brag but it is illustrative as to how much faster the <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">AM.130</span> went at a given perceived level of effort.
An efficient suspension platform combined with a decent rider stance afforded by well-sorted geometry will always trump a lighter bike with poor suspension and/or geometry. Obviously, it would be nice to have low weight, good suspension and capable geometry all in one bike but… that never quite seems to happen. And of that particular Holy Trinity, it’s low weight that is massively less significant than suspension and geometry.
Anyhow, I still thinks it's down to what you value personally in the end. If we remove the Atherton due to the extra travel, I'd love a go on a Spur and a Tallboy (I'd also be interested in the shorter travel Oranges). I'd love to own either alongside my Megatower (which can very much be overkill for some of the riding I do) but neither have the money or space (and balls to tell my wife I'm buying another bike) for another mtb.
"An efficient suspension platform combined with a decent rider stance afforded by well-sorted geometry will always trump a lighter bike with poor suspension and/or geometry".
I subscribe to that. I'd always take good/efficient suspension/geometry over weight if I had to prioritise one aspect. In fact, I did.
Previous short-travel FSer was a Tallboy 3: 110mm rear, lighter CC frame version. Fairly robust 'trail' build with 130 Pikes, Hope/Arch wheelset, Maxxis EXOs etc. Weighed 13.9kg in XL.
Moved everything over to a Nicolai Saturn 14: 130mm rear, alloy, 15.0kg. I don't notice the extra weight but I do notice the better riding position, mainly the extra 45mm reach (I feel 'in' rather than on the bike) and 3.5deg steeper STA (climbs with little front end wandering). Certainly more of a trail bike than the TB3 but that's down to the travel, not the extra weight.
So the original question of what short-travel FSer and why - ideally for me would be a 100-110mm travel, lighter version of my Saturn 14 but with similar geometry (yes, there's a 100mm travel Saturn 11 but it's very different geometry).
Orange. Cotic. Transition.
Spur +1
Completely in love with mine. Pretty much stock GX build but with Title carbon bars, XT Race SPDs and Roval carbon wheels. 12.3 / 12.4ish kgs? I've only bathroom scale weighed it, but it feels very light for a trail bike.
Climbs more or less like an XC bike, but goes down like a trail bike. Picks up speed very easy but has lovely balanced handling. Not twitchy like an XC race bike, nor floppy like an enduro bike.
Skips and hops down the trails but can keep up with any XC bike on the climbs. Lovely "springy" suspension that pops off everything. Can build the frame into a 130mm "Spurduro" with a Pike / Fox 34 or similar, or keep it with the stock 120mm XC suspension and confuse the dirt roadies as you come hurtling past them wearing baggies.
Fantastic warranty and support direct from Transition too.
Downside - current prices are daft. I wouldn't buy one at the price they are now.
matt_outandabout
Full Member
I’m gonna post in defence of the short-travel-but-robust bikeI firmly agree. The *best* bike I have ever owned was an Orange ST4 – 110mm/120mm, but robust, an early low and slack bike
Yep. OneTen/OneTwenty is the sweet spot for me..
Thanks for all the opinions everyone. Quite telling that absolutely no one recommended a Yeti. It was my front runner only a week ago.
This thread has made me realise that I need a Hightower / Megatower to go with the (sub 30lb) Tallboy.
I'll always be skint.
No love for the Banshee Phantom? I fancy a short travel full sus and it’s always appealed. I love hardtails but think I could benefit from a bit of squish. The spur and stage evo look lovely too.
This thread has made me realise that I need a Hightower / Megatower to go with the (sub 30lb) Tallboy.
Maybe we could work out some sort of co-ownership 😂
+1 for orange stage Evo
+3 for stage evo
Mine is simply the best bike I’ve ever owned; brilliant geometry, punches well above its weight travel wise; makes me giggle every time I ride it. Love it.
Mine has factory fox dpx2 & cane creek helms fitted and it’s a very engaging pocket rocket. Loads of feedback without ever feeling overwhelmed.
I wanted a Tallboy but couldn't get hold of one during lockdown. Got a Banshee Phantom instead. Very happy with it.
Nothing specified about material, weight, wheel size, dreaded press fit or threaded BB preference, internal vs external routing or being a dentist, or not 😁
+4 Stage Evo.
Spesh epic evo. Way less twitchy than a scalpel, and actually pretty fun on the downs. Good technical climber, stays nice and planted and doesn’t wander.
Dream short travel bike would have to be the Evil Following. Those bikes absolutely rip! Some great reviews on them too. Not the lightest but so fun.
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Flaremax gen 4 for me. Makes no sense when you consider the weight of the frame but it's such a capable and fun descender. Though I've only used a 140mm fork it, so maybe I've just invalidated my contribution.
@Daffy - I did look at the SB115 and it was almost my front runner until I realised how heavy it was, but also that the Switch Infinity link on the SB100 and 115 is different to other Yetis and has apparently been a reliability disaster.
Need to spend daft money on the Tallboy to get it to be a decent weight. All thorough reviews comment on the weight of the bike. Plus i think there are far better pedalling bikes out there. Yes i have the alloy version but its decently specced and still not as efficient as my old 2019 Giant Trance 29 2. Tried it in the high mode with lighter tyres and less rolling resistance and it still didnt blow me out the water and a short travel FS bike should have some get up and go about it IMO. It is a superb descender though, i will give it that. Selling it soon as i've just bought the new Trance and swapped bits over. Hope i've not voided my warranty.....
If i had the money i’d order a Reeb SST. mainly because it looks, to my eye, lovely.
or a Transition Spur because it’s so light
or a Ripley AF because they seem like good value for money. or a norco fluid a1 for the same reason.
I wasn't aware of the Ripley AF before the post above. It seems like CRC/Wiggle are in no hurry to accept Cyclescheme vouchers again, the Ripley (2022) is £2.5k at Merlin which would clear me out and I imagine I'd have to pay some kind of CycleScheme charge, based on Google.
Is it a better bike than the Vitus Rapide FS CRS? The Vitus seems to win on the weight front (if the figures are accurate) but with the Ripley you're gaining a dropper post and a little more travel (Fox fork)
Finally got out on my Izzo uncaged for a proper ride at the weekend. Really enjoyed it. Felt fast and taught but supple and really efficient on the climbs. Lockout was really useful for road sections and smooth climbs. Descending was really confident though a little less relaxing on the steeps than on my S150. Think it’s spot on for 90% of the trails near me. I put a dhf on the front in place of the rekon race it came with, as the trails were mostly muddy open Scottish hillside which added a bit of weight and drag but the bike still felt fast. Rekon worked remarkably well on the rear. Will swap the dhf out when things get a bit drier or I’m riding on less sloppy trails - maybe pop a forekaster on. Anyway, I can recommend considering the Izzo.
Thanks everyone. You all pretty much confirmed what my head was saying over my heart/brand bias.
I now have my first Transition. Pics to follow once I’ve got it built to a happy spec.
the Ripley (2022) is £2.5k at Merlin which would clear me out and I imagine I’d have to pay some kind of CycleScheme charge, based on Google.
Is it a better bike than the Vitus Rapide FS CRS?
One's an XC race bike and the other's a heavy-ish, fun trail bike.
Which of those suits your riding best? That'll be the better bike for you.
I was looking for a similar bike last year and was set on the Spur, but the price/value seemed very poor for a complete build. I ended up with a Stumpjumper (xc) build with nice components (Fox 34 Grip 2, full XT, DT240/crest wheels, One up 240mm dropper) for the same price and in the real world my larger (S5) build is 27lbs and has the huge advantage of the swat box. To me, it feels as spritely as a friends Spur.
Absolutely love riding my Spur! So glad I built it when I did. Really tough to get hold of them. I kept a tally of the costs, which I will share.
piccy first:
I built it nice and light as I wanted this for epic all day rides and big distances. But I just cant help riding it on the local steeps! I just stick a different front wheel on with Assegai and it performs brilliantly. Not great on the fast, repeated hits though.
It weighs 25.7lb
Race Face sixc carbon bars £60
Kore stem spares
Dtswiss 240exp rear hub £275 bike discount
Sapim dlight spokes spokes from Ryan £30
Sapim dlight spokes from Ryan £30
Dtswiss xr391 rims 32 Round things rolling £85
Dtswiss xr391 28 bikester. £75
Truvativ descendant carbon dub crank £134 pinkbike
Xt shifter high on bikes £56
Xt rear mech £70
Xt cassette Merlin £150
SID Forks £675 pinkbike
KS Lev carbon Dropper post £160 pinkbike.
Formula cura brakes ebay £225
Dtswiss Front hub R2 bike £115
BB £20 Ben D
Saddle £48.50 Ben D
Slx 12 Chain Westbrook cycles £30
Chainring unite components £40
Frame £1780
Headset hope £70
Built over 1st lockdown when it was tough to get parts
Chakaping - something as lightweight as possible that'll still be usable for the odd 20 mile round commute (seeing as it's C2W) but could take light trails. That's why the XC element appealed.
I'm not fearless and I don't have many spare weekends so the odds of me becoming a full trail rider at the minute are limited.
I wanted FS as I've got a gravel bike for roads and canal paths, and it seems my era of weight penalty bouncy FS bikes that made climbing a chore, died off along with 26" wheels. So I don't feel bound to a HT as i would have done in the past.
I've not bought myself an MTB in 11 years so this thread has been really useful.
Sounds like the Vitus would be great for you then.
Aye, I just don't know why there doesn't seem to be anything comparable at that price point. Just have to wait until they take CycleScheme vouchers again I guess
Now the choice has been made and this has become a Transition Spur thread, what sizes at what heights and ape index, on what terrain are people riding them?
I feel very "between sizes" about the Spur and there doesn't look to be a demo your any time soon.
I am 5ft 9 with short legs and a longer body have a large Spur.
I took it out this morning after riding my winter hack for 2 months (on one whippet) and was reminded just how fun and capable it is.