I waited 18 months for a spur but gave up in the end and bought a trek top fuel.

Very impressed with it so far. Can’t really fault it other than it’s weight over what a spur would be

I still want a spur though 😂

Agreed, thats why the shorter travel trail bike stuff like the Tallboy/Optic/Aether wouldn’t be a consideration, as they are short on travel but fat on weight. I’ve said before, as a one bike solution, maybe a 31/32lb 130mm trail bike works, but for me, it’s a pointless compromise when a properly light (shudder with the word) Downcountry bike is just as capable on fun stuff & more versatile.

I hadn’t read this post, but I agree

I love my optic – it’s the fancy one carbon one with XTR and a fox 36 and isn’t heavy at all. I actually find it easier to ride than longer travel bikes on slow tech as I can feel where the wheels are, and it jumps better. I’m not riding much at the moment, but I just sold my KSL as there isn’t anywhere that I felt much more comfortable on it than the optic. It went (a lot) faster when things got chunky but for a lot of slow steep riding I found it a bit runaway. To be fair it was a great bike and always got me out of trouble, but I’m happy on a shorter bike 90% of the time.

Flare

Because its a Cotic and i’m a fanboi. Aesthetics are everything. If its half as good as my Jeht it will be amazing.

I’ve had a couple of the more chonky short-travel 29ers (Process 111 & Smuggler) and they are amazing with just the right gradient and level of gnar, but the optimum operating window was quite narrow and a lot of the time I might as well have had more travel.

My current Orange is still hardly XC weight but picks up it’s heels so much better and is a pleasure to ride on flatter or undulating trails, while still being pretty much as good descending.

I really need that from my short-travel bike, but I can see how some might want something at the burlier end of the spectrum.

As Snotrag said, a capable shock (and fork) make a big difference. I have a CCDB IL Air and Pike on mine.

As others had said, depends if tipping more to xc or more to trail. All the good options seem to have been mentioned on this thread when i was looking but i settled on a Rapide FS when i bought in December for xc with some trails (surrey hills mainly) & marathon (sdw etc).

Was also looking at Intense Sniper xc/tr but was a lot more money for similar component spec

Idle thought

Maybe i could replace the frame on my very uncool Canyon Neuron CF8 with a Transition Spur frame

Frame retail price is £1500 more than my bike cost, gulp

The00 – Question was what short travel bike and why, whilst weight may be important to you, it’s maybe less of a consideration to others. Depends what you want from your short travel bike.

Question was what short travel bike and why, whilst weight may be important to you, it’s maybe less of a consideration to others. Depends what you want from your short travel bike.

Yep. OP needs to clarify really.

Was also looking at Intense Sniper xc/tr but was a lot more money for similar component spec

I’ve a Sniper XC & it’s really rather good. It’s more than happy at just about any XC course I’ve ridden. Th only time it felt out of its depth was at Cwmcarn on the rockier red trails. Just felt a touch frail & needing more travel. The TR version with a bit more travel & beefier rear triangle is very appealing – problem is only room for 1 bottle.

I love my 2016 Kona HeiHei Trail DL. 100mm at the rear and with 120mm rebas and a 2degree slackset with a 170mm dropper it’s so versatile – quick and nimble but also capable (within elegant riding limits rather than just smashing thorugh big stuff).

The current models also look pretty tasty to me.

I’ve a Sniper XC & it’s really rather good. It’s more than happy at just about any XC course I’ve ridden. Th only time it felt out of its depth was at Cwmcarn on the rockier red trails. Just felt a touch frail & needing more travel. The TR version with a bit more travel & beefier rear triangle is very appealing – problem is only room for 1 bottle.

Cwmcarn reds aren’t that rocky though really – I’ve ridden it on my 140mm forked hardtail and I was still fairly quick round it. I think geometry helps though – my hardtail has the same reach as the medium sniper xc and a 2 degree slacker head angle / 40mm more fork travel (which in turn gives more stack / a higher front end).

I think that’s why shorter travel fs trail bikes can be nearly as quick as an enduro bike in a lot of scenarios (until it get proper rough) as if they have decent geometry that can go a long way.

I hadn’t read this post, but I agree [that short travel bikes should be light]

I’m of the opinion that most riders should probably get a 150mm do-everything full sus. Of course it depends what trails you’re riding. However, I’m gonna post in defence of the short-travel-but-robust bike. I’m just one person, and I’m pretty atypical in terms of what I like riding – I’m happy challenging myself on climbs or racing mates down Enduro style trails but I also love picking my way slowly over rocks in a fusion of trials and MTB.

I have a 5010 (140mm front, 125?mm rear) built up with 35mm width wheels, strong tyres and inserts. It’s not a heavy bike, and compared to most 160mm travel bikes, it’s a fair bit lighter. But it’s also not a lightweight XC whippet. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I don’t race, and don’t intend to (although a wheel & tyre swap could make this a speedy XC machine).

I wanted a bike that I could chuck off anything that came my way, and hammer down the rocky bridleways near me without worrying about my wheels. I’ve had lightweight bikes in the past, and they’re fun but noticeably flexy and I felt they were holding me back from certain things. I might brake earlier, or opt out of a gap or drop or whatever – for fear of breaking the bike. But I like how direct and precise I can be on a shorter travel bike. For techy climbs and pretending to ride like Danny MacAskill, shorter travel just is better. For railing turns in wooded singletrack, less is still more. If that’s what you do more of, the best compromise might well be short travel with the precision that brings, but also strength to not break things.

I think that’s why shorter travel fs trail bikes can be nearly as quick as an enduro bike in a lot of scenarios (until it get proper rough) as if they have decent geometry that can go a long way.

Also this 👆

Agree, or 125mm at a push.

130mm Aether 9 or Stumpjumper aren’t short travel bikes. 140mm Hugene definitely isn’t!

For me the Epic Evo is still a bit XC, the Stumpy frame comes in lighter than the Spur as well.

The smuggler I had before was a lump, over 4kg for the frame (carbon was over 3kg) and it didn’t pedal all that well, felt really sluggish and when pointing it downhill, the back end struggled to keep up.

Cwmcarn reds aren’t that rocky though really – I’ve ridden it on my 140mm forked hardtail and I was still fairly quick round it. I think geometry helps though – my hardtail has the same reach as the medium sniper xc and a 2 degree slacker head angle / 40mm more fork travel (which in turn gives more stack / a higher front end).

I think that’s why shorter travel fs trail bikes can be nearly as quick as an enduro bike in a lot of scenarios (until it get proper rough) as if they have decent geometry that can go a long way.

I’ve ridden it on 130mm FS & it’s no bother but at full chat on 100mm FS it is a very different story. The bike just felt a touch flimsy & lightweight for what was being asked of it. The geo is a massive help & for XC when descending it adds a margin for comfort & safety that makes a huge difference. It’s just that 100mm has its limits. I’m a big fan of short travel FS bikes & I reckon the sweet spot (for me) is probably around 120mm. I think they have a huge performance envelope like you say..

I’m gonna post in defence of the short-travel-but-robust bike

I firmly agree. The *best* bike I have ever owned was an Orange ST4 – 110mm/120mm, but robust, an early low and slack bike (not long though…). It was an absolute riot on your average trails. It had hovercraft mode – felt like a 2.5 tyre that was low pressure, but then had ‘enough’ in reserve to take the edge of hits, without wallowing or moving much when pedalling. It was also slightly overbuilt and noticeably tracked better than my Sub5.

What is a modern ST4? Maybe a Cotic Flaremax?
[url=https://flic.kr/p/af6fo1]Exif_JPEG_PICTURE[/url] by Matt, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/67VhZV]Orange ST4[/url] by Matt, on Flickr

@Ogden – these threads should actually be called “I want a Transition Spur, but can’t get/afford/wait for one so what else is there that’s similar?”

The Spur is a great bike, had a spin on one and loved it. Transition have always been really good to deal with when my Wife had her 3 bikes
(Lars used to reply to emails ASAP and was quick to advise on anything I needed).

They do suffer from the “North America brand tax” like Santa Cruz, Rocky Mountain, etc though

The smuggler I had before was a lump, over 4kg for the frame (carbon was over 3kg) and it didn’t pedal all that well, felt really sluggish and when pointing it downhill, the back end struggled to keep up.

I put a CCDB air (piggyback) shock on mine and it was incredible, but I’ve since had much longer-travel bikes which climbed quicker than the 115mm Smuggler

😀

To add to the debate on weight being a key factor I went trawling for the STW review of the Atherton AM130 (which I’d nominate if stretching the travel numbers a touch):

<h3>DW6 FTW</h3>
The geometry and the DW6 linkage completely and utterly override any fanciful theoretical sluggishness that some people assume may be present on a bike that weighs 14.5kg. The <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>AM.150</span> covers ground extremely efficiently and extremely quickly.

I lost count of the number of times that I found myself much further ahead of my riding partners than I expected to be. I often found that I was talking to myself instead assuming my co-riders were much closer to my rear wheel than they actually were. I don’t mean this as a cringey brag but it is illustrative as to how much faster the <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>AM.130</span> went at a given perceived level of effort.

An efficient suspension platform combined with a decent rider stance afforded by well-sorted geometry will always trump a lighter bike with poor suspension and/or geometry. Obviously, it would be nice to have low weight, good suspension and capable geometry all in one bike but… that never quite seems to happen. And of that particular Holy Trinity, it’s low weight that is massively less significant than suspension and geometry.

Anyhow, I still thinks it’s down to what you value personally in the end.  If we remove the Atherton due to the extra travel, I’d love a go on a Spur and a Tallboy (I’d also be interested in the shorter travel Oranges).  I’d love to own either alongside my Megatower (which can very much be overkill for some of the riding I do) but neither have the money or space (and balls to tell my wife I’m buying another bike) for another mtb.

“An efficient suspension platform combined with a decent rider stance afforded by well-sorted geometry will always trump a lighter bike with poor suspension and/or geometry”.

I subscribe to that. I’d always take good/efficient suspension/geometry over weight if I had to prioritise one aspect. In fact, I did.

Previous short-travel FSer was a Tallboy 3: 110mm rear, lighter CC frame version. Fairly robust ‘trail’ build with 130 Pikes, Hope/Arch wheelset, Maxxis EXOs etc. Weighed 13.9kg in XL.

Moved everything over to a Nicolai Saturn 14: 130mm rear, alloy, 15.0kg. I don’t notice the extra weight but I do notice the better riding position, mainly the extra 45mm reach (I feel ‘in’ rather than on the bike) and 3.5deg steeper STA (climbs with little front end wandering). Certainly more of a trail bike than the TB3 but that’s down to the travel, not the extra weight.

So the original question of what short-travel FSer and why – ideally for me would be a 100-110mm travel, lighter version of my Saturn 14 but with similar geometry (yes, there’s a 100mm travel Saturn 11 but it’s very different geometry).

Orange. Cotic. Transition.

Spur +1

Completely in love with mine. Pretty much stock GX build but with Title carbon bars, XT Race SPDs and Roval carbon wheels. 12.3 / 12.4ish kgs? I’ve only bathroom scale weighed it, but it feels very light for a trail bike.

Climbs more or less like an XC bike, but goes down like a trail bike. Picks up speed very easy but has lovely balanced handling. Not twitchy like an XC race bike, nor floppy like an enduro bike.

Skips and hops down the trails but can keep up with any XC bike on the climbs. Lovely “springy” suspension that pops off everything. Can build the frame into a 130mm “Spurduro” with a Pike / Fox 34 or similar, or keep it with the stock 120mm XC suspension and confuse the dirt roadies as you come hurtling past them wearing baggies.

Fantastic warranty and support direct from Transition too.

Downside – current prices are daft. I wouldn’t buy one at the price they are now.

matt_outandabout
Full Member
I’m gonna post in defence of the short-travel-but-robust bike

I firmly agree. The *best* bike I have ever owned was an Orange ST4 – 110mm/120mm, but robust, an early low and slack bike

Yep. OneTen/OneTwenty is the sweet spot for me..

Thanks for all the opinions everyone. Quite telling that absolutely no one recommended a Yeti. It was my front runner only a week ago.

This thread has made me realise that I need a Hightower / Megatower to go with the (sub 30lb) Tallboy.

I’ll always be skint.

No love for the Banshee Phantom? I fancy a short travel full sus and it’s always appealed. I love hardtails but think I could benefit from a bit of squish. The spur and stage evo look lovely too.

This thread has made me realise that I need a Hightower / Megatower to go with the (sub 30lb) Tallboy.

Maybe we could work out some sort of co-ownership 😂

+1 for orange stage Evo

+3 for stage evo

Mine is simply the best bike I’ve ever owned; brilliant geometry, punches well above its weight travel wise; makes me giggle every time I ride it. Love it.

Mine has factory fox dpx2 & cane creek helms fitted and it’s a very engaging pocket rocket. Loads of feedback without ever feeling overwhelmed.

I wanted a Tallboy but couldn’t get hold of one during lockdown. Got a Banshee Phantom instead. Very happy with it.

Nothing specified about material, weight, wheel size, dreaded press fit or threaded BB preference, internal vs external routing or being a dentist, or not 😁

+4 Stage Evo.

Spesh epic evo. Way less twitchy than a scalpel, and actually pretty fun on the downs. Good technical climber, stays nice and planted and doesn’t wander.

Dream short travel bike would have to be the Evil Following. Those bikes absolutely rip! Some great reviews on them too. Not the lightest but so fun.

What Short Travel FS Bike and Why?

Flaremax gen 4 for me. Makes no sense when you consider the weight of the frame but it’s such a capable and fun descender. Though I’ve only used a 140mm fork it, so maybe I’ve just invalidated my contribution.

@Daffy – I did look at the SB115 and it was almost my front runner until I realised how heavy it was, but also that the Switch Infinity link on the SB100 and 115 is different to other Yetis and has apparently been a reliability disaster.

Need to spend daft money on the Tallboy to get it to be a decent weight. All thorough reviews comment on the weight of the bike. Plus i think there are far better pedalling bikes out there. Yes i have the alloy version but its decently specced and still not as efficient as my old 2019 Giant Trance 29 2. Tried it in the high mode with lighter tyres and less rolling resistance and it still didnt blow me out the water and a short travel FS bike should have some get up and go about it IMO. It is a superb descender though, i will give it that. Selling it soon as i’ve just bought the new Trance and swapped bits over. Hope i’ve not voided my warranty…..

If i had the money i’d order a Reeb SST. mainly because it looks, to my eye, lovely.

or a Transition Spur because it’s so light

or a Ripley AF because they seem like good value for money. or a norco fluid a1 for the same reason.

I wasn’t aware of the Ripley AF before the post above. It seems like CRC/Wiggle are in no hurry to accept Cyclescheme vouchers again, the Ripley (2022) is £2.5k at Merlin which would clear me out and I imagine I’d have to pay some kind of CycleScheme charge, based on Google.

Is it a better bike than the Vitus Rapide FS CRS? The Vitus seems to win on the weight front (if the figures are accurate) but with the Ripley you’re gaining a dropper post and a little more travel (Fox fork)