What is this government obsession with monitoring our communications?

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  • What is this government obsession with monitoring our communications?
  • Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    If I remember rightly, the Tory party made it part of their manifesto to put a stop with Nu Labours obsession with this type of nonsense

    So they want to store data on everyone’s every website visits, social media post, phone calls, texts and emails? Does anyone actually believe that this can possibly work? Or more importantly why they should even be doing it in the first place?

    I just can’t see how this is going to achieve its stated aim of combating pedophiles and terrorism. As justification goes, that just sounds like populist, tabloid-friendly tabloid claptrap to me. Why do they actually want to do it? What do they really hope to achieve?

    The estimated cost is said to be £1.8 billion. Yeah, right! And with the governments track record on IT projects, that probably means £20 Billion in the end. And couldn’t that kind of money be better spent ‘combating pedophiles and terrorism’.

    Not to mention the data collected probably being about as secure as a 5 grand mountain bike on a car roof rack, in a pub car park! 😉

    So… why is it that despite being opposed to it while in opposition, as soon as they’re in power, they start pushing through this type of nonsense?

    Right, your on the list.
    NAME…

    bencooper
    Member

    Because ACPO tells them they want it. And you don’t say no to Police, Inc.

    IHN
    Member

    Don’t tell him Binners.

    Thank you.
    Anyone else.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    I have come to the conclusion that all politicians are lying, cheating two faced bastards without exception, perhaps they initially enter politics with their ideals and morals intact but as they climb the greasy pole of power they gradually get worn down and made to toe the party line as their comes a point in a politicians career when they’ve held office for so long that they are so completely out of touch with the real world that they are all but unemployable in the real world so thus they have to agree with how their party whips tell them to vote on polices and suchlike.

    There should be maximum time any one person is allowed to be a politician, perhaps two terms of parliament and hopefully that’d put an end to the absurd idea of breeding these **** at a young age and then watching them sail their way through life doing nothing much in particular apart from being a little meat puppet of their political party.

    I’ve not met one politician i would want to spend any amount of time with.

    neninja
    Member

    I’d hoped we might see a move away from the obsession with information gathering and the removal of civil liberties to protect the nation from ‘terrorists’ that was started by Blair.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    The stupid thing is whenever the shit hit’s the fan the first thing they say is “we can’t figure out who blew up XYZ/sold them the drugs/was a nonce because it was all done on a PAYG mobile phone and an internet cafe in Hoxton”.

    How is this actualy going to help?

    Let’s widen this slightly.

    It’s not just about the govt wanting to spy on our private communications, it’s the way that the govt sees an ever-increasing role for itself in many aspects of our lives, from how much exercise we take, how we get to work, what we eat, what we drink, and how much we pay for it, how we express ourselves in public… There is a creeping, pervasive, neo-maoism at large…

    We need to ask ourselves who is the property of who? The government, supposedly paid for, and acting on our behalves, should be our collective property, not a corporate entity that regards us as it’s collective property.

    we can’t figure out who blew up XYZ/sold them the drugs/was a nonce because it was all done on a PAYG mobile phone and an internet cafe in Hoxton

    It’s shocking how easy it is to be a bit hard to trace – I recently found out that my mum’s mobile is unregistered, and the police don’t know who’s it is, because they phoned me up and asked me who I’d been calling on X number, because it was a completely unregistered phone (they had a pretty good reason). If she’d only used it to call other unregistered phones bought from Tesco, they’d have had no chance of catching her. I’m guessing, this being my mum, that she doesn’t have a credit card registered on the account to top up, but even so, it surprised me that they had no connection to the number.

    Why should you be shocked and suprised? Why have you been so conditioned to accept state monitoring and control of everything?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Indeed. Unless there’s an well-founded suspicion that you are involved in any criminal activity, then why the hell should the authorities have any right at all to monitor you in any way?

    In a free country, they shouldn’t! Its as simple as that.

    Now they’re asking to have automatic access to every single one of your communications, for no other reason than they want it. What does this say about the relationship between the state and the citizen? Or ‘subject’, as we’re now apparently seen?

    But the UK isn’t a free country.

    what is government?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    if you’re not doing anything wrong, whats the problem?

    as for why they do it

    well anything said in opposition is usually just a lie to win votes

    once youve secured these votes and get into power i think theres a natural urge to want to control things

    I think it would be worth trying to hack that database for marketing/blackmail purposes…

    ok kimbers, can i set up a webcam in your bedroom just to make sure your not a kiddie fiddler?
    if your not doing anything wrong, what’s the problem?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I think it would be worth trying to hack that database for marketing/blackmail purposes…

    WCA Its not really worth going to the trouble. Apparently 600 government organisations, including the egg marketing board (seriously!) will have access too it. It’ll leak like a sieve!! just give someone a quick bung and you’ll be able to get any info you could possibly require for marketing/blackmail purposes.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    if you’re not doing anything wrong, whats the problem?

    You are a Daily Mail editorial writer and I claim my 5 units of a proper currency, ie: not a bloody Euro!!

    Why should you be shocked and suprised? Why have you been so conditioned to accept state monitoring and control of everything?

    I think it surprised me that in these days of everything being on a database somewhere, that someone using an always on, network connected, and incredibly technically easy to trace form of communication, which the police clearly have access to the detailed records of, can still evade the combined police forces of two countries.

    Not that the new database would have helped, it’s never going to help catching any completely non-sophisticated, technology phobic pensioners, same as it won’t help them catch people with any sophisticated technical knowledge.

    Indeed. Unless there’s an well-founded suspicion that you are involved in any criminal activity, then why the hell should the authorities have any right at all to monitor you in any way?

    Her phone number was thought to belong to the suspect in a murder enquiry (she didn’t do it by the way!). I think I’m cool with them pulling phone records from an area when trying to solve murders. I don’t think they need these new laws though, given the existing data retention laws etc. I was just making the point that they aren’t as powerful at doing technological investigation as you might think.

    Tat Wink
    Member

    Let’s widen this slightly.

    It’s not just about the govt wanting to spy on our private communications, it’s the way that the govt sees an ever-increasing role for itself in many aspects of our lives, from how much exercise we take, how we get to work, what we eat, what we drink, and how much we pay for it, how we express ourselves in public… There is a creeping, pervasive, neo-maoism at large…

    We need to ask ourselves who is the property of who? The government, supposedly paid for, and acting on our behalves, should be our collective property, not a corporate entity that regards us as it’s collective property.

    A very good point from ohnohesback.

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    The stupid thing is whenever the shit hit’s the fan the first thing they say is “we can’t figure out who blew up XYZ/sold them the drugs/was a nonce because it was all done on a PAYG mobile phone and an internet cafe in Hoxton

    But you go to the service provider and you get material saying “well at that time we may not be able to say who actually was using the mobile but it was cell sighting here every night and every morning and was in contact with this number who was in contact with this number or it locked onto these masts exactly the same time as Mr A who we were following was traveling that route, etc, etc” enabling you to identify cell structures and prove conspiracys One of the devloping problems in this field is (afaik and i may be wrong )that coms providers no longer need the call data and there’s no commercial reason for them to keep it so being a business they won’t.

    the egg marketing board thing is a bit of a red herring – this material comes under RIPA which regulates who can in theory get material (which was brought in not to allow more snooping but to legalise the previously unlegislated covert activities world) and in theory the egg people are authorised to apply under that legislation, however there is an overarching test within RIPA concerning why the material is required – and the grounds are

    (a)in the interests of national security;
    (b)for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime or of preventing disorder;
    (c)in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom;
    (d)in the interests of public safety;
    (e)for the purpose of protecting public health;
    (f)for the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department;
    (g)for the purpose, in an emergency, of preventing death or injury or any damage to a person’s physical or mental health, or of mitigating any injury or damage to a person’s physical or mental health; or
    (h)for any purpose (not falling within paragraphs (a) to (g)) which is specified for the purposes of this subsection by an order made by the Secretary of State.

    and they may not be able to meet those criteria in their day to day egg related activities so not actually able to use RIPA. Sorry for the very dull RIPA related post – but if you think this is tedious you should try writing the applications, reviews, etc, etc 😥

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    A mate sent me this a while ago after i argued with him that we do not live under maritime law and i also argued wi him against the the points in this speel regarding the birth certificate ….note to self for future reference – do not argue under any circumstance with a very successful criminal lawyer, if he can make prosecution lawyers look like incompetent **** on a daily basis then he’s got nae problems turning me inside out.

    Maritime Law: The Jones Act

    There are two different kinds of law on the planet. The first is known as COMMON LAW, which is law of the land. The other is maritime admiralty, which is also known as the law of water, it can also be referred to as banking law.

    Maritime admiralty law considers you a maritime admiralty product, simply because you were birthed out of your mother’s water. A ship sits in its birth until the captain gives a certificate of manifest to the port authorities.

    The reason you are required to have a Birth Certificate is because at the time of your birth there is an exchange of money to cover hospital costs. The dock signs your birth certificate simply because that is what the ship is tied to, you will need a dock to sign your birth certificate.

    It still does not make sense, more clarification please?

    Let’s go over this again, when you came down your mother’s birth canal you came out of her water, making YOU a maritime admiralty PRODUCT. That is right you became a PRODUCT of commerce at the time of your birth. Your mother also needs to sign your birth certificate. If you notice on your birth certificate where your mother signed, she is not listed as parent, nor is she listed as mother. Where your mother signed your birth certificate she is known as informant!

    The United States Court system operates under Admiralty law!

    Source: Google
    What or who did my mother inform?

    Your mother informed the banks that she had just produced another product to be used in commerce. Your actual physical body is owned by England, actually to be more precise, your body is owned by the British Crown. That is the LAW!

    It all comes down to this; YOU ARE A MARITIME ADMIRALITY PRODUCT!

    YOUR BODY IS OWNED BY THE BANKS!

    If you look at your social security card, you will see numbers in red on the back of the card. The front of the card will be printed in either blue or black, but the numbers on the back will be in RED.

    What are these numbers on the back of my Social security card?

    These numbers which appear in red on the back of your social security card represent your body. Your body is bought and sold on stock markets. The numbers In red on the back of the card is the serial number of your stock. Poor people are considered common stock and the wealthy is known as preferred stock.

    Just like any other stock, your body is traded on open markets though the use of your birth certificate. If you could see your original certificate of birth, you would see on the back of the certificate marks from banks from all over the globe. World banks trade your body just as they do every other commodity. This is because you are stock in a maritime admiralty banking scheme where you are used to return profits to the bank.

    I still do not believe it. Why wasn’t this taught in school?

    I know it sounds insane but please be patient.

    Be aware of your surroundings and do not take things for granted. Just because you were not taught it in school does not mean it is not real!

    Look at your bills, check out your drivers license, your social security card, utility bills, anything with your name on it.

    What do you see?

    Any form that is used for business purposes will have YOUR NAME in capital letters.

    I notice but why is it printed like that ?

    Anytime you are involved in business transactions, you will always see YOUR NAME in CAPITAL LETTERS. Only in this form are you able to deal with either banks or the government. Whenever Your name is spelled with a combination of capital and lower case letters it refers directly to you as a natural person.

    Since the banks and government have no control over natural born people, they will not deal with you as a person. Only your straw man is able to engage in commerce.

    Once you sign a contract which uses YOUR NAME in capital letters you have given your consent to this artificial entity. Now you can be brought into a Court.

    When you find yourself in a Court you will be asked to stand before the bench. In Latin the term for bench is banco, or more simply put bank. So a judge sits on a bench, they also rule from the bench. In other words the judge rules for the bank. Words have meaning!

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