What happens (to insurance) when kids crash cars?

Son (18) recently passed his test and bought a small (£5k) car. Getting insurance for this was “challenging” with plenty of outrageous quotes (one was £12k!). But managed to get a “black box” policy with Hastings direct for around £2.5k, which was painful but manageable. So all was good. He was loving his new found freedom and we were trying to get used to the fear of getting “the call” every time he drove anywhere. The black box was actually reassuring in that case as it told us his driving was basically pretty good.

Then, this week, we got the dreaded call. He was driving himself to work on a country lane, clipped a curb on a corner that pushed him off line enough to clip a tree right by the side of the road. Span the car round and put it on its side. All very stressful, car blocking road, police and ambulance called, dad dashes to scene etc. But, thankfully nobody seriously hurt, just a few cuts. Wasn’t going that fast so didn’t roll the car or anything. In fact it ended up level with the tree he hit, but on its side, so enough damage to make it a write off I’m sure.

All things considered I don’t think this was necessarily a bad thing. Son is devastated about the loss of the car of course, but he’ll learn from it and hopefully be a more careful driver in future. One of his biggest concerns is what might have happened to his girlfriend if she’d been in the passenger seat as that was the side that hit the tree and ended up in the air. So, an expensive but valuable life lesson. But I’ve realised that I’ve got no idea what happens now in terms of insurance. I told him to inform his insurance company straight away, which he did, as that’s what I’ve always been told was the right thing to do. But now I’m wondering if that was really the right advice. Has he now effectively made himself uninsurable? In particular, after all that preamble, I’ve got a couple of questions.

1. Assuming they write off the car and give him some cash (nowhere near what he paid of course minus a big excess) what happens then? The policy still has many months to run. So could he buy another similar car and carry on under the same policy, or does the policy end once they pay out i.e. they pocket the premiums (which will pretty much cover what they pay out I expect) and he then has to try to take out a new policy for his next car (which I’m guessing could be prohibitive).

2. If he can put a new car on the existing policy what might happen to premiums next year. Obviously a big bit of guesswork here. They won’t go down of course (as they would if he hadn’t made a claim) but he didn’t have any no claims bonus anyway, so will they increase that much?

The first question is really one about whether he’s basically going to be able to carry on driving at all or will he be relying on us ferrying him around for years to come. We live in a rural location where public transport is non-existent.

The second is whether it’s actually going to cost him more in the long run than if he’d just not claimed at all.

Informing them was the right decision.

It’s not as horrendous as you’d think in future premiums – my daughter wrote my wife’s car off within a week of passing her test. Not her fault but couldn’t prove otherwise. She’s 21 now and paying a grand a year on a basic Fiesta with no black-box (she’s never had a black-box).

The current policy will run it’s term – the premium will only go up at renewal time.

He was driving himself to work on a country lane, clipped a curb on a corner that pushed him off line enough to clip a tree right by the side of the road. Span the car round and put it on its side.

There’s a lot to unpick here…

But now I’m wondering if that was really the right advice

Yes. The police were involved. There will be a record. If he didn’t let his insurance company know then this would probably come back to bite him in the future.

Has he now effectively made himself uninsurable?

No although the costs will go up.

Glad your son is OK, that is the main thing here. Most of us have had accidents in our driving careers, learn from it and move on.

So could he buy another similar car and carry on under the same policy,

No, most polices only run until you make a claim. Once you’ve claimed the policy finishes.

so will they increase that much?

Probably.

IME the years NCB made little or no difference to my policies.  Just getting older brought it down far more. And having to answer yes to “have you ever been in an accident”, even if not at fault, pushed it up far more than the NCD brought it down.

You have to inform them of material facts that affect their ability to calculate your risk. So whether he claims or not, failure to tell them he had a crash that put the car on its side would be fraudulent and that would make him uninsurable.

IDK what effect will be for a fairly major crash and assume write off, but it’s a fact that a lot of young drivers have prangs in their first couple of years. My daughter did (bumper and headlight sized) and it wasn’t crippling, it’s part of the cost of motoring – you dread the call but in the end you hope it’s just bent metal, a dented wallet, and damaged pride, and nothing life changing or worse.

Clip

Clip

Hmmmmm. Menuspeak

1. Assuming they write off the car and give him some cash (nowhere near what he paid of course minus a big excess) what happens then? The policy still has many months to run. So could he buy another similar car and carry on under the same policy, or does the policy end once they pay out i.e. they pocket the premiums (which will pretty much cover what they pay out I expect) and he then has to try to take out a new policy for his next car (which I’m guessing could be prohibitive).

The policy ends when they pay out, it’s done what you paid the premium for. If he’s paying monthly, he still owes the remainder of the payments.

2. If he can put a new car on the existing policy what might happen to premiums next year. Obviously a big bit of guesswork here. They won’t go down of course (as they would if he hadn’t made a claim) but he didn’t have any no claims bonus anyway, so will they increase that much?

He’s a high risk driver who’s just crashed and made himself (in the eyes of the insurers) and even higher risk. Be prepared for the worst

The second is whether it’s actually going to cost him more in the long run than if he’d just not claimed at all.

He still has to declare the crash regardless of whether or not he claims (The question is “have you had any accidents or claims?”). So will still get hit with an increase

Thanks folks. A lot of good points and most of it reassuring, but still a bit of confusion on the main point 🙂

The current policy will run it’s term – the premium will only go up at renewal time.

That’s what I wanted to hear 🙂 and matches what a few people have said locally. But:

No, most polices only run until you make a claim. Once you’ve claimed the policy finishes.

That is my fear i.e. policy finishes and he can’t get another one at anything vaguely reasonable as he’s now a young driver with a crash on his record.

The fact that in the end he’s probably going to end up paying back whatever he gets from the insurance and more in increased premiums is a secondary issue really. Insurance companies don’t make a loss. But being effectively priced off the road is my main fear. I’m starting to see why there are so many uninsured young drivers on the roads round here now.

Good points about having to inform the company (police were called and anyway it is a material fact they should be aware of), so at least I gave him the right advice there.

Glad your son is OK, that is the main thing here. Most of us have had accidents in our driving careers, learn from it and move on.

Yes, that’s the bit I’m trying to focus on 🙂 It’s funny, in over 40 years of driving I’ve never been in this situation. I did write off my first car (at 17) mainly because I was an idiot and I think it probably did make me a better driver. Made me realise I wasn’t actually immortal at least. But back then we all had third party fire and theft (as it was a lot cheaper) so there was no question of claiming. Since then (touch wood) I’ve never had an accident that was my fault and resulted in a car being written off.

<quote> policy ends when they pay out, it’s done what you paid the premium for</quote>

not necesarily – it depends on the policy – read the small print

We had both our cars stolen last year, insurance paid out in full for both of them, the policy continued until the original end date some months later.

I’ve had a good look through the policy documents and the key point (under the total loss section) appears to be:

“If your claim is settled on a total loss basis and you don’t replace your car within 30 days of being issued the settlement payment we will cancel your policy”

That matches something in one of the videos they have which talked about having 30 days to find a replacement car and what other people (including youngsters who have crashed) have told us locally. I guess only time will tell though.

There was something else on their site (can’t find it now) about the policy ending once the claim was settled, but I think that was more about the policy on that car i.e. you are not insured to drive that car once it has been written off, which doesn’t apply here as it is not drivable anyway.

I guess only time will tell though.

Ring them and ask them.

From looking at the wording (YouDrive?) it seems to say that cover continues following a write-off (and this does sound like a write-off – undriveable and on its side?) so he needs to get a replacement car sorted within 30 days of payment. If he doesn’t, there’ll be no refund as the policy has been “used” by paying the write off. He’d then need to buy a new policy.

Re: market value – they are now supposed to pay the highest of the ‘book’ values unless they have specific evidence why they won’t. Likewise, if you think it’s worth higher than that you need to provide evidence of its value.

Give him a big hug. And going swimming or gentle exercise may help his aches and pains.

he won’t be uninsurable but expect the insurance cost to double for such a high risk driver. The remaining policy is likely gone if the car is written off, but if its repairable it won’t be.

depending on the value of the car, you can cancel the claim – it’ll still be on his record but the policy should continue and he will continue his no claims discount (but not the answer to the “no crashes” question). if the car is worth little enough this might be the best decision financially

One of the odd things is that the insurance company actually rang my son just a couple of hours after the accident, when he still wasn’t thinking straight. Still not sure if he did something in the app to make them aware or whether they picked it up through some other route. But talking to him when he was still struggling to process the crash did cause a couple of extra issues.

I used the line “if you crash you are going too fast by definition”. Bit mean but want to make sure he learns from the experience. Being the honest chap he is he then told the insurance company hat he was probably going too fast for the bend (bless him). In fact he estimated his speed as 30-40 mph, which I guess shows how little youngsters really understand. If he had clipped the tree at that speed he’d have rolled a lot further down the road and would have made a lot more of a mess of himself. We have now uploaded a picture I took of the crash scene which clearly shows the car came to rest level with the tree so can’t have been going that fast and presumably with a black box they can check that anyway. Funny thing is that the app still says his driving was good for that journey and it didn’t detect any harsh deceleration  🙂

Because he wasn’t thinking straight he’s not really sure what they told him. They did say they thought they could settle the claim quickly as nobody else was involved and the car is clearly going to be a write off. There was also something about “30 days”. He though that might be how long they thought it would take to settle the case, but I wonder now if they were reminding him that he would have 30 days to source a replacement car once they settled the claim. They did also apparently say that they would tell him what the effect will be on future premiums, so that will be interesting.

One of the odd things is that the insurance company actually rang my son just a couple of hours after the accident, when he still wasn’t thinking straight. Still not sure if he did something in the app to make them aware or whether they picked it up through some other route

One assumes it was the black box telling them that the car was on its side?

I doubt him admitting going too fast, being distracted, abducted by aliens, whatever the root cause was will make any difference, it’s still him at fault. They’d only be interested if there was some 3rd party at fault.

But being effectively priced off the road is my main fear. I’m starting to see why there are so many uninsured young drivers on the roads round here now.

Something like 1/4 of young people no longer learn to drive.

Even 20 years ago when I took my test it was quite rare to actually get a car (I had a motorbike so got halfway there), and quite a lot of friends didn’t take their test until after uni. For a lot of young people driving a car is no longer the be all and end all it once was. Even working in TV which involved a lot of traveling to awkward places I was surprised how many people didn’t drive, they just get the train and then minicab/Uber to locations.

My Son rolled his car driving like a bell end, he had 2 friends in the car. Miraculously none of them had a scratch on them. After the initial hug to make sure he was okay, he got it with both barrels.

The car only cost a grand, so we wrote it off without claiming. His premium went up by a few hundred pounds when he got a new car, we told them he had had an accident but no claim, and no 3rd party. So in the grand scheme of things, not that bad.

Silver lining? He is now a very careful driver, and is very aware of what might have been.

Ring them and ask them.

To be honest, I assumed that since I’m not the policy holder they wouldn’t talk to me and he’s basically at work with no access to his phone all the time their lines are open. But I just rang, explained that I was the “concerned dad” and once I’d got through a few security questions they were very helpful. They confirmed that he would have 30 days to source a replacement car once the claim is settled and as long as he did that he should be able to carry on driving under his existing policy, which is a relief. There may be a charge for changing the car on the policy, but only if the car itself is significantly different. The implications of the crash itself wont show up until it’s time to renew the policy and they couldn’t say what they would be. It sounds as though we wont know until a month before the policy is due for renewal, but I’ll tell him to get saving 🙂

Give him a big hug. And going swimming or gentle exercise may help his aches and pains.

Gave him one of those at the side of the road. He was beating himself up quite enough and didn’t need any help from me. Eighteen year olds are bloody bombproof though. Ambulance was called (as he was bleeding a bit from a cut on his arm)  but they said his heartrate and blood pressure were remarkably low (good job they didn’t check mine). They were sure he would have some aches and pains the next day, but apparently nothing. Oh to be that young again.

Unfortunately our rubbish public transport system makes driving essential for people in rural areas.

I had a couple of “my fault” crashes in my younger days so I can empathise. For the second one I had a company car so the insurance was paid by them.

Maybe he could look for a job with a company vehicle with permission for personal use? – not so mnay companies offer cars as they did 20+ years ago when I had my second prang.

 For a lot of young people driving a car is no longer the be all and end all it once was.

I think it depends a lot on urban/rural and whether they stick around. My son is doing an apprenticeship about 15 miles away from our little village. Starts at 7am so you can guess how happy I am about having to go back to taking him in each morning. Most of his peers who have stayed around here have cars.

My daughter on the other hand (21) went off to university and has never really shown much interest in learning to drive. Maybe she’ll get round to it one day, but she’s in no rush.

I think it depends a lot on urban/rural and whether they stick around. My son is doing an apprenticeship about 15 miles away from our little village. Starts at 7am so you can guess how happy I am about having to go back to taking him in each morning. Most of his peers who have stayed around here have cars.

I grew up in the arse end of nowhere, before and after motorbikes (CBT only lasts 2 years so there were 4 years of uni summer breaks and a stint living at home after getting made redundant) and worked 13.8 miles away.  I know it was that distance because I got a road bike with an old cateye computer and got very fit, then joined this forum to use the classifieds to spend all my money upgrading it 😂.

It’s doable if there’s no alternative. Point out to him that cycling 15miles will be quicker for him than doing a 30mile round trip is for you 😉

His premium went up by a few hundred pounds when he got a new car, we told them he had had an accident but no claim

OK, that’s reassuring and makes sense. The premiums should be a measure of risk (rather than whether they paid out or not) I guess. Is somebody who had a prang a higher or lower risk than someone who hasn’t. Either way it’s a lot more expensive than it would be with a year of NCB I guess.

You insured a 5k car fully comp, for a teenager?! Cheap car, third party only is his future. Still have to report the accident etc as above.

I wrote off 2 cars in my first year of driving, well three if you include the Sierra I hit the second time. This was 30+ years ago but insurance after that was circa 4 times the cost of the car third party only. Car was about £500 and insurance c£2k. Expensive lesson for a student/supermarket worker at the time.

Glad everyone was safe

Things have changed a lot since our day 🙂

We priced up third party insurance but it was more expensive than fully comp! Something about drivers who go third party being higher risk and of course the cost is based on what you might hit not the crappy thing you are driving.

But being effectively priced off the road is my main fear. I’m starting to see why there are so many uninsured young drivers on the roads round here now.

Would you prefer that we subsidise other drivers with increases to YOUR premiums?

He was driving himself to work on a country lane, clipped a curb on a corner that pushed him off line enough to clip a tree right by the side of the road. Span the car round and put it on its side.

My Paramedic sense is tingling.

Glad everyone is alright, a hard lesson learnt and yes he did right informing them. His premiums will remain high for awhile now and a possibility of being higher.

Third Party doesn’t exist in the way us old farts remember! 🙂

You insured a 5k car fully comp, for a teenager?! Cheap car, third party only is his future.

3rd party only or third party fire and theft can sometimes be more expensive than fully comp. Presumably because it might imply to don’t really give a crap if your car gets damaged… And therfore might drive in a more reckless manner.

Cheap car, third party only is his future.

wouldn’t be surprised if that resulted in way higher premiums. You’re basically telling them: “I am going to roll it”. And they aren’t worried about your shitty car, it’s the bus full of baby robins you wipe out along the way that they’re going to have to pay out for!

One assumes it was the black box telling them that the car was on its side?

lol 😂

country lane, clipped a curb

country lanes have kerbs now? 🤔

I had a friend who did similar, and clipped the verge and ended up in a field with the car on its side. Police turned up, but they charged him with Careless Driving. He got 6 points on his licence, and had to resit his test as happened 18 months into the 24 month post test period. Edit to add he was 26 (late test passer) and had his mum and g/f in the car too.

Did the police charge him with anything?

Accident added with points on the licence could also be a factor in insurance pricing.

One assumes it was the black box telling them that the car was on its side?

Either that or the police recovery firm making sure they were going to get paid!

I’m starting to see why there are so many uninsured young drivers on the roads round here now.

Its not just young drivers who are uninsured.  Much of it is avoidable if insurance companies wanted it to be – but some is also because everyone is way more complacent about stuff you order online than in the old days when you physcially went to a broker or phoned someone up!

For all policies I’ve ever had, it ends when the car is written off and they pay you.

But you still owe the remainder of the monthly premiums if it’s on a monthly payment plan.  The insurer may deduct the remaining total monthly £££ figure from what they pay out.

If your lad gets another car, it’ll need an entirely new policy.

This case illustrates exactly why young people are incredibly expensive to insure- the reality is that they ARE highly likely to crash and ARE high liability.  I was the same when I was 17 or 18 too.  I did stick a corner of a car into a tree once. And knock the rear axle sideways 3″ on another occasion after I hit a kerb very sideways. Though back then I only had 3rd party / fire / theft insurance, so if I bent my own car and there was nobody else involved, I’d get the car out the ditch myself / with mates, limp the car home somehow or get it towed by mates, and fix it myself. And it was a repairable £800 Ford Escort and I had a MIG welder !  No organisations or official bodies ever knew.

Whilst their car may not be overly expensive, they could stick it into the side of a Bentley or Aston Martin, or kill or maim someone else, incurring tens or hundreds of thousands of costs to the insurer. Hence young people’s insurance costs.

Glad your lad isn’t hurt.

Got to lol at “wasn’t going that fast”.

I know, we were all young once and a good proportion have crashed a car. But still, “clipped” a kerb, spun the car, hit a tree, put the car on its side, but “wasn’t going that fast”.

LOL.

I only hope he’s learnt the lesson that he actually was going far too fast for his level of competence, rather than kidding himself (as he seems to have kidded his father) that he was just driving along sensibly and got a bit unlucky.

If your lad gets another car, it’ll need an entirely new policy.

But that’s not what the lady handling the claim told me on the phone just now 🙂 Or what is implied by the wording of the policy that I quoted earlier. Both seem pretty clear (and I asked her to clarify this a few times) that he can buy another car and put that on the same policy, which will still run until its original end date (when his premiums will increase). He has to do that within 30 days of them settling the claim though or they cancel the policy (with no refund). It does seem weird as it actually means he has an incentive to get another car and carry on driving (or he just loses the money he has paid for insurance). So I won’t be totally convinced unless/until it actually happens. But that’s definitely what she said.

Things have certainly changed a lot since I was a young driver. I’m certainly not defending the unisured drivers, but I’m starting to understand why it is so common and of course I’m still paying for that in my increased premiums as they now have to cover the increased risk of me getting hit by somebody who is not insured.

Did the police charge him with anything?

I don’t think so. They’d say something at the time right? Maybe they did and he was too confused to remember, but they didn’t say anything to me. In fact they were very nice about it and just concerned that he was OK. They arranged for the car to be recovered and we’ve received a letter from the Police informing us that it has been recovered and that we are liable for the costs (although the insurance company will actually take care of that too apparently).

But still, “clipped” a kerb, spun the car, hit a tree, put the car on its side, but “wasn’t going that fast”.

That’s not what happened but never mind.

country lanes have kerbs now?

Yes, it is a bit weird. There are a few of them on this unclassified stretch of road. It’s a short stretch of curb on the inside of a bend. I actually clipped one myself a couple of months back. But it was a different bend without a tree on the inside of the exit and I’ve got 40 years of experience of clipping curbs 🙂

My Paramedic sense is tingling.

Had a nice chat to the two nice paramedics. Don’t know how you do it, but glad you do. They were a bit annoyed that nobody had told them that he was basically OK, so they had no idea what they were going to find when they arrived on the scene.

We had a van drive into us and write off our car, nothing we could do about it.  Its declarable for 5 years and stored on the insurers database they all share.  The aygo is group 2, there must be a group 1 car.

Maybe look at advanced training to get the premium down.

There’s a lot to unpick here…

Indeed.  When physics exceeds ability there is only ever going to be one winner.  I’ve had my share of driving like I stole it when I was young and stupid(er) and I’ve clipped plenty of kerbs, that generally doesn’t put you through a hedge.

But.  Any crash you walk out of is a net win.  I’d grasp that with both hands if I were you.  This could have been a very different post from “the insurance might go up.”  I’d suggest you bring this to his attention also.

The car has **** all to do with the high premium youngsters pay. It’s the cost if 24/7 care that the 4 injured passengers may require for the next 50 years.

I handled injury claims way back in the 90s – we had the first £1m settlement when a passenger exited the sunroof and survived.

Even with the photos and medical reports I had to deal with, I still had to properly scare myself before I stopped trying to drive like an idiot.

The main thing is that no one was killed or injured. The rest is just (expensive) detail.

But.  Any crash you walk out of is a net win.  I’d grasp that with both hands if I were you.  This could have been a very different post from “the insurance might go up.”  I’d suggest you bring this to his attention also.

Oh don’t worry, we have 🙂 To be fair to him, he’s well aware of how much worse it could have been. I’ve been back to the site a few times. The tree is very close to the edge of the road and once you put your left wheel off the tarmac the lip and the grass does try to drag you towards the tree. But go a bit slower and pay more attention is still the only message we are giving him.

Just curious, what was the car?

When I was 19 I remember my insurance doubling or trebling when I had a car crash which damaged all one side’s panels my car and the car I hit. But that was in the ’90s. It was a low speed bit of foolish reversing out onto an urban road plus a tourist trying to go around the back of me…

Anyway, thanks everyone for the advice. I think I’ve answered the original questions I had as well as I can until we actually get the final offer from the insurance company (they are estimating next week).

Of course, I’m now worried that we are about to get a letter saying he’s been charged and will have to re-take his test, which would be far worse than my original concerns.

One weird thing with the police. The paramedic was convinced they would have to breathalyse him. So I asked if they needed to do that before I took him away and the officer just laughed and said “only if you think he’s been drinking”. Maybe they had done it already (but why not say that). My son is very vague about what happened straight after the accident. He didn’t even know what side of the car he got out of or which side was on the road, so no point asking him.

I think it was the two drivers following my son who called the police and ambulance, but they had gone by the time I arrived and didn’t leave any details. I guess, since nobody was hurt the police weren’t really bothered about anything beyond clearing the road and letting the insurance take care of the rest.