What can be done to encourage healthy living?

Anecdotally, a good chunk of NHS workers I encounter are fat

I think probably at a higher rate than the general population.  Shift work and comfort eating will be factors at a guess

Working with patients over more than two decades, the solution to the same problem is totally different for different patients. Sometimes it is exercise, other times it might be to join a gardening or painting group. But that is only for small numbers of people, with support, and not going to change anything at a population level. 🙂

I like this post, a small change however does change the population it shifts the curve, this is why active travel would have a big impact, we need to use all the levers available, as you say exercise is one!

 You are talking bollocks by saying that exercise is not linked to obesity, it may be a smaller factor than diet but it cannot possible not be a causative factor unless you are suggesting the laws of physics are wrong.

The idea that it’s fat = energy in – energy used is over-simplistic.

People are not calorimeters. They are far more complex than that.

Just because I may have a different perspective to you is no reason to be abusive. If you are going to continue to do so, then you’re not worth engaging with further.

Will power – is this something we’re born with, is it something we learn? I can’t answer but I do have very strong will power, meaning I can step away from the rubbish sold in supermarkets that shouldn’t be classed as food.

Everything nowadays is for ease, comfort, for convenience. Meaning we don’t have to put much effort in, if so wish.

Again my generation had to switch the telly over by actually getting out of the chair and pushing a button on the box. We had to carry heavy shopping home as ‘most’ families didn’t  have a car (or only one). The diet was usually a plateful of veg, a few spuds and a tiny bit of meat, boring yes but  if you were ‘taught to cook’ these meals were lovely. The plates and portions were smaller, no 3 courses. For example the very first pizza I ever ate was cut into 5 slices and eaten with a salad for the family. My father didn’t have all these garden gadgets eg leaf blower, hedge trimmer, power jet washer. He used shears, a brush and elbow grease. The house work was done with fewer gadgets too. This is all only a few decades ago (not the 1800’s :o) ).

One thing I found as a person who started exercising later in life, was that I didn’t crave rubbish food when cycling, skiing or maybe going on long walks.

Just one more observation: children today seem to be fed on a diet of pasta or rice, now if this is all one can afford then so be it, but it’s really easy to slip in some veg (frozen, fresh, canned) in with a sauce that goes with the pasta or rice.

 I do have very strong will power, meaning I can step away from the rubbish sold in supermarkets that shouldn’t be classed as food.

Having met you and having seen your phenotype (albeit a long time ago) I suspect that what you’re attributing to will power could be down to be genetics.

Shift work and comfort eating will be factors at a guess

You should see the staff room at the GP practice I work at. there’s a constant supply biscuits and cake, and the patients are forever bringing in stuff – especially at Xmas and Easter. Mind you we often have after work meetings and they’re almost always fuelled by take out pizza and fizzy pop.

Fat tax on fast food.

Fat tax on highly processed food.

Manufacturers are not allowed to add salt to anything they sell as a “ready meal”.

Extra penalty for using a Drive Thru restaurant (air pollution + congestion).

Link business rates to active travel facilities (eg a supermarket which has terrible walking and cycling provision gets their business rates quadrupled or higher.

Pay per mile for road use by ALL vehicles, with a sliding scale highest at the shortest distances.

Extra funding for schools which have a reasonable proportion of students arriving by bike / foot / public transport.

Ban parking in town centres and offer free park and ride, or a pay and claim service for buses (eg instead of the shop refunding your parking ticket, they refund your bus ticket).

Allow e-scooters everywhere. Accept there will be some accidents.

Properly prosecute dangerous driving.

All pedestrian crossings get priority when the beg button is pressed.

Properly prosecute DPF deletes and remaps.

All motorways get 60 mph limit for air quality.

If rail operators get to raise their prices by inflation + x%, so too should the tax on fuel.

Public charge points are VAT-exempt.

Bicycles become VAT-exempt.

Two-stroke engines are banned.

Low income families collect a free crate of fruit and veg each week from a supermarket of their choice (funded by the tax on their enormous car parks suggested earlier).

Deal with crap PE teachers. Had I not been bullied by the teachers ‘cos I didn’t like football I didn’t start running properly until my 20s. Could possibly have competed at a national level if I’d started younger.

Teach kids how to cook more than a pasta bake in schools.

Probably more but running out of space.

Having met you and having seen your phenotype (albeit a long time ago) I suspect that what you’re attributing to will power could be down to be genetics.

A good friend I’ve known since secondary school is known for a between meals burger. I exercise way more than him and I’m a good bit taller. He’s starting to put on a slight belly in his fifties, but if I ate like that I’d be huge.

Usually 6 of us manage to meet up for weeks a riding holiday and aside from one chap who got very excited a new burger chain had opened near him, I’ve noticed that the amount of and type of food doesn’t tally with the body types.

Were almost all skinny when we first knew each other in our teens. Although I was still around 90kg.

@jamesoz – one of my riding buddies eats piles of carbohydrates and remains at 64kg. He also doesn’t get that hungry between meals. His brother and father are exactly the same. They’re lucky with their genetics.

The diet was usually a plateful of veg, a few spuds and a tiny bit of meat, boring yes………….children today seem to be fed on a diet of pasta or rice,

Despite agreeing with the rest of what Bunnyhop says, I take issue with this hidden point.

We (as a group) can’t make the assertion that the meat and veg plate loved by my parents and grandparents is superior than pasta and rice dishes; while also saying that the mediterraneans and east asians are skinnier/healthier eaters than us.

The idea that it’s fat = energy in – energy used is over-simplistic.

People are not calorimeters. They are far more complex than that.

Indeed, I talked about that, it is calories absorbed into the blood that are key. As I said 100kJ of carrots won’t affect you like 100kJ of mars bars. Even after that differences will be seen between different individuals but at a population level exercise levels will make a difference, to deny this is ridiculous. A quick Google search on exercise and obesity comes up with many peer reviewed papers showing a link between exercising more and reduced obesity.

one of my riding buddies eats piles of carbohydrates and remains at 64kg.

Classic anecdote = fact

one of my riding buddies eats piles of carbohydrates and remains at 64kg. He also doesn’t get that hungry between meals. His brother and father are exactly the same. They’re lucky with their genetics.

Surely you can’t know it’s their genetics without tests/tracking habits/everything the eat throughout the day and so forth.

If we’re talking anecdotes than, as a counter, I sound like your friend. I also eat piles of carbohydrates and have been 181cm/75kg for twenty years. It may well be genetics, it may well be a middle-class background. But there are obese and overweight people in my close family with presumably similar genetics and identical backgrounds. A very clear difference between me and them is that I eat a lot less and move about a lot more. I’m not claiming I have superior willpower or anything – maybe I’m lucky to have an active job and hobbies and not to have a particularly sweet tooth. Maybe I did got some freak genes or fell into a less obesogenic environment.

All anecdotal of course.

I’m not arguing that poverty or genetics don’t play a part, and it may well be genetics or environment in my case, but I don’t think you can claim they’re the over-riding causes for everybody as you appear to be doing in some posts.

I am currently thinking that what you do is to separate the whole diet and exercise thing. Basically if you ignore peoples size and get them to do some exercise they will probably be healthier than they are.

If you ignore the weight and try to change peoples diets to contain better quality ingrediants that are actually food and not the product of a chemistry set they will also be healthier.

If you keep having a message that you are obesse because you ate to much and sat on your arse and it’s your fault you will still end up with unhappy unhealthy people.

So move more, eat better.

The government can then try and get food suppliers to supply healthy wholesome food. Good luck with that.

You should see the staff room at the GP practice I work at. there’s a constant supply biscuits and cake

But how are we supposed to educate the masses if the ones that are supposed to know better don’t even try?

 I don’t think you can claim they’re the over-riding causes for everybody as you appear to be doing in some posts.

You’re entitled to disagree.

And to be clear, I’m not saying for everybody just for most people.

As is clear from this thread, the long history of anti-fat prejudice that there has been in society and the media still has a long way to go before it’s reversed.

There’s a lot of fat blaming going on here.

But how are we supposed to educate the masses if the ones that are supposed to know better don’t even try?

On the other hand, I imagine being told you’re fat by a toned adonis isn’t particularly helpful.

Regarding the rice and pasta dishes eaten within the countries of the Mediterranean and east Asian countries,  they eat lots of veg and salads with these foods. Our way of cooking these dishes is with (probably/possibly) just bung some curry or tomato sauce on the top. or bake with some cheese and tuna.

When I used to cook for a child, the meals were often done in a slow cooker, lots of ‘hidden’ veg eg carrots, onions, mushrooms, peas and spuds. If I made soup we would play a game of guess the veg and how many veg were in the soup. Meal times were times for chatting and catching up with news of the day, hopefully mealtimes were fun. I think someone once said that food tasted away from the telly or other distractions such as using a phone or tablet was tastier, the brain concentrated on the flavours.

I remembered earlier that our local ‘refill’ shop sells tiny amounts of herbs and spices for pennies. But the problem is, if you don’t learn or are not  shown how to cook, then no amount of adding flavours to food would help.

This has been a very interesting thread.

On the other hand, I imagine being told you’re fat by a toned adonis isn’t particularly helpful.

I don’t actually tell people they are fat…. 😉

As is clear from this thread, the long history of anti-fat prejudice that there has been in society and the media still has a long way to go before it’s reversed.

Is it? Examples?

I’m not saying for everybody just for most people

Do you have any evidence to support your view?

You’re entitled to disagree.

And to be clear, I’m not saying for everybody just for most people.

As what I wrote in the bit you didn’t quote, I don’t disagree per se. Maybe I’m misreading you but you seem a touch black and white and while I think you are correct to an extent and clearly know the subject, you seem to be over-simplifying things which I don’t think helps.

There’s a lot of fat blaming going on here.

If that was directed at me then I don’t think it was very fair. I didn’t ‘blame’ anybody in my post (and absolutely do not in real life). I specifically said I don’t have any more willpower and that it was probably luck on my part and could indeed be my genetics or environment. I was – probably clumsily – attempting to counter your anecdote about genetics being the definite cause in your friend’s case and pointing out a difference between me and my family members was a way to do so. I think it’s important to be able to counter arguments without immediately being shut down by terms like ‘fat shaming’.

@peteza – it wasn’t directly aimed at you, apologies for any confusion.

Brief sound bites are somewhat the nature of forums, so complex topics like this do get oversimplified.

As mentioned previously @lorax seems very credible on this subject, and seems to broadly agree with me.

Obesity has been portrayed as a personal choice/self control issue for years now. I suspect because it fulfills many organisation’s agendas to do so, but the problem is, there’s very little evidence that this is the case.

And as mentioned by myself previously, it is strongly correlated with poverty.

They’re lucky with their genetics.

Agreed, I have two female step children, who have the same mother but different fathers, their body type is so different that everyone is blown away when the find out they are half sisters. No amount of exercise and dieting or lazing around and over eating would ever make them the same size & shape.

I could write lots and give my opinions (lots)  on this. However I don’t have the energy or motivation to.

However. As a resident of France for the last 16 years, and not in expat honeypots:

-I’m not convinced there’s a big difference between poverty rates in France and UK. Whilst I’m not discounting there is a lot of poverty and more and more people are struggling, we in developed countries are actually living in a period of Decadence.

-In France, generally we eat seasonally. It can get a bit frustrating at times…

-Anything with any element of process in it is I feel expensive, and generally not as branded as in the UK

-France isn’t tied up in class isms with regards to choice of supermarket or whether buy and eat organic etc. Re. organic it is (in my experience) purely down to ‘can i afford it?’.

-Our veg and fruit, generally is by weight not by plastic bags (observation by my 14 year old french born daughter on a visit to UK to see Family)

-People generally stick to meals, and restaurants are shut at non-meal times

-Sauces ‘and sh*T’: the number of jars of sauces, condiments etc.at my parents in UK was jaw dropping: their fridge is full due to them. Yet my Mum is controlling my dad in terms of the amount of salt from the shaker he puts on his food (gout…): the night we turned up he was having shop bought fishcakes and baked beans… I think the only things I have ‘sauce wise’  are jam, pesto, ketchup, vineagar.

-Lot less opportunity to eat/ snack out: you want a coffee: go to a café. There won’t be cake….. we were at a park and ride car park to go into Norwich last week, and both my teenage children asked why there was a café at the car park….

It can’t all be genetics – if it was, the increase in obesity over the last 50 years would imply Darwin’s theory of evolution had accelerated at a parabolic speed.

Has anyone on this thread, including me, said that it’s all genetics? Or even, for that matter, that it’s all poverty?

I also think the NHS/GP’s have a role to play in by taking a more holistic longer-term view of a patient. If you have a long term untreated but treatable chronic condition it should be prioritised.
For instance, I’ve been diagnosed with needing a knee replacement for the last 10 years and due to this I cannot walk more than 1k without pain with reliance on paracetamol but the year prior to the diagnosis,  I did a half marathon and was regularly playing 7’s rugby. But I now cycle, weights and swim, so this offsets this a little.
But I have friends who have given up exercise as its too painful and their health has deteriorated when they could be treated.

I also think the NHS/GP’s have a role to play in by taking a more holistic longer-term view of a patient.

We’ll be needing more GPs then.

Just had a Full English and Coffee with 3 sugars.I feel great.

Will the watershed ban on Junk Food adverts planned for October 2025 make much difference? At least it’s a small pushback on processed foods.

Just back from a couple of weeks in France and the biggest change we noticed on our return, apart from not having to say “on the right” every time we set off, was the number of grossly obese people at the first services we stopped at, it was striking.

IME the French don’t have this bizarre British concept of giving their children different food to adults.

Tax the crap out of unhealthy food and subsidise heathy food not just in supermarkets, but restaurants, takeout, etc.  Make it so expensive that you have to consider alternatives.

Stop brow beating people about the negative aspects of obesity/sedentary lifestyles and communicate the beneficial outcomes of healthier lifestyles more betterly

A few successful claims against employers who insist people are glued to a screen 8-10 hrs a day

Investment in and subsidised access to municipal resources, pools, tennis courts, athletics tracks etc, with a less “elitist” approach to club sports

Better support for those with existing chronic/mental health conditions who struggle to overcome the barriers to participation in active stuff

Just back from a couple of weeks in France

The French are getting fatter as well, their traditional foods and eating habits are being replaced with ultra processed versions, and snacking, they’re just coming from an historically lower point.

Tax the crap out of unhealthy food

The issue is what do you call unhealthy food to be able to tax it.

I am Type 2 diabetic, it runs in my family and i developed it after COVID (others in my family developed it after cancer), seemingly T2 has become the punch line to many a comedians jokes that start with piles of sweets etc. I cycled 500km in a day the month before that bout of COVID, and through understanding the disease, have never been medicated and placed myself back in remission within 2 months.

My daughter is Type 1 diabetic so will be on insulin for life, but i keep her alive stuffing sweets down her throat in the middle of the night often, so are sweets unhealthy to her?

But any marathon runner or ultra-cyclist, probably has a diet extremely high in simple- processed carbs, so what is right for one, is not right for all, it is understanding what you are consuming, why you are consuming, when you consume it etc.

But i realise these are extreme examples, but how do you tax a Mars bar for a person who never leaves the sofa, but don’t tax a Science in Sport energy bar for the marathon runner?

Our food bill has gone up considerably since we started to try and eat as “cleanly” as we could, and we didn’t eat badly before, i even try and grow as much veg as possible, so i do realise that often ultra-processed food is often the cheapest.

For my mind, so much of it comes down to education and to government policy.

You only have to look at the average Dutch person, compared to the average Brit, there is a government that in the 70’s looked at the fact that the car was becoming king and took a drastic step to address it with infa-structure for active cycling, walking etc.

And education, i am on a number of Type 2 diabetic FB pages, and it is very clear that a large percentage of people don’t know what a carbohydrate is, they cannot actually read the food label on the pack and know what it means, they have no idea the difference between saturated fats and monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, and for a large proportion, they swing from one diet (keto etc) to another and spend the whole time moaning that their GP won’t prescribe them the latest GLP-1 drug to make them lose weight, but suggest exercise or reading up on the disease, and they always have an excuse as to why they cannot.

Many people simply cannot cook, they don’t congregate around the table as a family any more for a home cooked meal, as is the norm in many countries, they actually no idea what is actually healthy and what is not. There is a family my daughter is friends with, who have a “Pot Noodle night” every week as their mother works a long day that day (9.-3.30!)

Why do we teach biology in schools, but not health?

In the same way why do we teach maths, but not to control finances, calculates taxes, mortgage rates etc

It is harsh, but there needs to be a wholescale complete change of thinking about how we tackle education, infastructure of our cities and roads, our relationship with food etc, and i am not sure how we do this when the UK is pretty bankrupt, there needs to be money spent now, to save money in the long term, but governments can only see the next 4 years.

The French are getting fatter as well, their traditional foods and eating habits are being replaced with ultra processed versions, and snacking, they’re just coming from an historically lower point.

I was able to get a bag of Salt and vinegar Walkers crisps last time I was over. If they get  Plain chocolate  digestives, they’re screwed.

for a large proportion, they swing from one diet (keto etc) to another

I was browsing r/carnivore last night after reading that Grauniad article about the carnivore diet and it’s full of posts from people saying “I was t2 diabetic, vastly overweight, poor mental health etc, then I switched to the carnivore diet and I feel so much better!”

And you can’t help thinking, hmm, yes, you could probably have picked any diet at all that excludes sugar, booze and junk food, and you’d be feeling a lot better….

I was browsing r/carnivore last night after reading that Grauniad article about the carnivore diet and it’s full of posts from people saying “I was t2 diabetic, vastly overweight, poor mental health etc, then I switched to the carnivore diet and I feel so much better!”

You’d be amazed, people will try any yo-yo diet, take any drug etc to avoid just following a sensible diet and exercise.

The root cause of Type 2 diabetes is a metabolic disease, it is the cells lack of sensitivity to the insulin produced (a slight simplification), the bodies intolerance of carbs is a symptom of the disease, not the cause, but all you ever hear is the “Low carb diet” “Keto or carnivore”, unsurprisingly if you do not eat carbs, you do not get raised blood glucose figures, but you are treating the symptoms not the cause, tackling and increasing insulin sensitivity is the way forward. If people as much effort into just going for a decent walk they did trying every diet going on the internet, they’d be much better off.

I think these new GLP-1 drugs don’t help, Ozempic, Mounjaro etc, they do really have there place yes, but every second post you see on a Type 2 facebook page, is moaning and rudeness to Doctors and nurses because they won’t be prescribed them, as they are seemingly seen as “miracle” weight loss drugs, but mention exercise, simple changes to diet, or even just trying to state to people how the disease actually works and you just get 101 excuses as to why they cannot.. but will happily take any pill or injection given to them.

It can’t all be genetics – if it was, the increase in obesity over the last 50 years would imply Darwin’s theory of evolution had accelerated at a parabolic speed.

I used to have an Womans Own (or one of the long running women’s mags) cookbook from the 1960s. Surprising number of recipes involving offal and only one ‘Diet’ recipe which was for a diet intended to help gain weight.

Food used to be a lot more expensive – your grocery bill was typically 25% of your income and even at that you’d be  eeking out leftovers.

The availability and scarcity of food can both mask and reveal genetic traits.

People have gotten taller over the last century. Average IQ has increased by 3 points every decade. Peoples DNA hasn’t changed. Environmental and societal things have changed so that people are more commonly reaching the potential their genes allow- things like, greater wealth, welfare provision, improved housing, irradication  of diseases, taking the lead out of petrol (most of us on this forum grew up during peak lead pollution and will probably be quite a few smarts short of our potential as a result)

I was browsing r/carnivore last night after reading that Grauniad article about the carnivore diet and it’s full of posts from people saying “I was t2 diabetic, vastly overweight, poor mental health etc, then I switched to the carnivore diet and I feel so much better!”
You’d be amazed, people will try any yo-yo diet, take any drug etc to avoid just following a sensible diet and exercise.

The root cause of Type 2 diabetes is a metabolic disease, it is the cells lack of sensitivity to the insulin produced (a slight simplification), the bodies intolerance of carbs is a symptom of the disease, not the cause, but all you ever hear is the “Low carb diet” “Keto or carnivore”, unsurprisingly if you do not eat carbs, you do not get raised blood glucose figures, but you are treating the symptoms not the cause, tackling and increasing insulin sensitivity is the way forward. If people as much effort into just going for a decent walk they did trying every diet going on the internet, they’d be much better off.

Perhaps doing more than just treating the symptoms – Too much red meat is linked to a 50% increase in Type 2 diabetes risk