Never rode a trail centre I didn’t enjoy. Find Delamere a little boring but then it isn’t a trail centre and I’m not a regular there so don’t know all the off piste stuff.

Trail centre grading will always be a little bit subjective but it does seem to be a bit inconsistent. Older trails certainly seem to have easier Reds / Blacks than newer ones

Nevis Red DH though is just graded WRONG though!

CYB – Slow, rocky, no flow – I’d bet the type of rider who doesn’t like Cwmcarn or Llandegla would like it, Horses for courses…

Agreed.

And regarding the “CyB = original and best” comment…

… yes it was the original and best. My visits since the centre moved across the road have been a massive disappointment.

The original Karrimor and Red Bull trails were ace – perhaps because they were something different at the time, perhaps because they just were damn good. I seriously don’t like the rocky armour and lack of rhythm that the CyB trails now have (or at least – last time I visited.

On the other hand – for me, the Afan and Brechfa trails are great…. and out of those the best are / were the easiest – Penhydd and Brechfa Derwen. The “fun” comes from speed and flow. Penhydd at absolutely lung busting flat out was a damn site more entertaining than the other trails at Afan / GC

Skyline – shouldn’t really be considered here. Think of Skyline as a “trail centre” trail and it will always be found lacking in terms of smiles per mile. Think of it as a “wilderness” big day out, eg, in the same vein as the Gap.

CYB – Slow, rocky, no flow – I’d bet the type of rider who doesn’t like Cwmcarn or Llandegla would like it, Horses for courses…

I like CYB and Llandegla.

So you are telling me, the piss take price of £8.50 to park there, doesn’t actually go towards maintaining and building trails?

I hate the place even more now.

As a lot of mountain bikers go there to ride, and not just parents with kids, why not make some decent trails and grade them accordingly? At least then it might be worth paying the parking charge, which is f*cking criminal.

I seriously don’t get it when people kick off about parking/toll road charges for FC/similar forests. You pay that price to use the forest and all the facilities there not just the trails themselves. Like the play area, cafe, visitors centre, staff’s wages etc.

Dalby for example gets more people walking and using the visitors centre than it does the mtb. SO makes sense that more of the money would be spent on those areas with a smaller portion going on the trails. I have a £40 season pass and feel its good value for a years worth of use of the forest.

There are plenty of places to ride for free in the UK that are more fun than trail centres and chances are you’ll drive past them to get to a trail centre, 90% of mtbers are too lazy to go exploring and prefer to follow a line.

So we should all pay for the chance to go and spend money in a cafe?

IMO all trails offer something, what it is will depend on your skill, ability and fitness.

The only trail I wouldn’t bother visiting again is Carbisdale. Probably wouldn’t go out of my way to ride Lee Quarry again, but can see it’s great if you’re local or there’s an event on.

Hamsterley, Kielder and Bedgebury are the only trails (I think) I’m yet to do… sounds like they’re worth missing.

3) wharncliffe – nothing for xc

There’s loads of excellent XC – but since it’s not really a trail centre, it’s barely signposted.

It actually amazes me that there are trail builders on here slagging off others trails. WTF??

Regarding the other moans..

1) Costs, how about all the people that moan about how much the FC charge for parking make a list of all the FC centres where cyclists are welcomed and a second one of all the non FC forests that do likewise?
2) Lack on investment in trails: You may have missed the fact, but the FC are currently making about 25% of their staff redundant. There is no money in the kitty. they are however, actively supporting volunteer groups and facilitating opportunities to build trails.
3)…. Oh bumbiscuits I can’t be bothered …. see here It’s not like any of this has ever come up before

That apart, FC linked trail builders how about we hook up and swop knowledge? Tried it via IMBA and it was less than useless to the point that we’ve canceled our membership.

TIMBER: Thetford

Some of the posts in here are just ridiculous. Trails are designed, built and maintained at great cost, usually with the help of a lot of people volunteering their free time. All this is provided to us free of charge yet some people in here still feel the need to absolutely slate them and have the cheek to moan about paying £3 for parking. Absolutely pathetic.

It actually amazes me that there are trail builders on here slagging off others trails. WTF??

Trouble is, when you’ve built some stuff it actually becomes very easy to see faults in other trails. Pretty quickly most folks also realise that a trail is often the result of a multitude of compromises throughout the period of development be it time, money, alignmnet, experience etc etc. And then most people shut up or put the comments across in the best way at all possible without telling the poor bugger’s who’ve spent umpteen weekends grafting that their efforts are “crap”. They rarely are, but often they can be improved (albeit with hindsight, experience or a disregard for the local practicalities). We’ve rebuilt (and I hope improved) loads of stuff :blush:

Also, it has to be admitted, (volunteer) trail builders are incredibly prickly about their babies. Often rightly though sometimes not so. 😎

1) Costs, how about all the people that moan about how much the FC charge for parking make a list of all the FC centres where cyclists are welcomed and a second one of all the non FC forests that do likewise?
2) Lack on investment in trails: You may have missed the fact, but the FC are currently making about 25% of their staff redundant. There is no money in the kitty. they are however, actively supporting volunteer groups and facilitating opportunities to build trails.
3)…. Oh bumbiscuits I can’t be bothered …. see here It’s not like any of this has ever come up before

I hear you and agree on some stuff. I do have a bit of a contrary view that it’s already public land, publicly funded etc so the kneee jerk response of “just pay parking” isn’t always appropriate. Plus there are issues of performance regarding some elements of FC (although I’m sure in many cases we don’t know the “full story”). Also, for example, spending umpteen million on Glentress makes some people think some of FC’s “work” is rather self serving. They are also, IMO, lacking in some real-world commercial experience / realism.

Saying all that without FC we probably wouldn’t have the woods or the trails and I firmly believe that something is better than nothing. I know and talk to a number of FC staff / cycle rangers / local authority rangers etc. I hope everything I’ve said is balanced and not taken as being too sweeping or in any way deliberately nasty. I’d be the first to agree that some “volunteers” can be utter c8cks too 😉

That apart, FC linked trail builders how about we hook up and swop knowledge? Tried it via IMBA and it was less than useless to the point that we’ve canceled our membership.

Sounds good, although I think there could be good and not so good ways of doing this. Think we’ve emailed about it before. I’m always happy to talk though (chairman@singletraction.org.uk).

Pretty much ditto….

Seen our new tool yet??

The boys toy hes riding on isn’t bad either

My post way back at the start of this thread wasn’t a troll.

Fair enough, it wasn’t well worded or thought out.

However I do think trail centres are very crap compared to natural trails. If I want to ride on a surface with that much quarried stone involved, I’ll go out on my road bike.

Which reminds me, I quite like Drumlanrig 😀

The Southern Yeti – Member

Hamsterley, Kielder and Bedgebury are the only trails (I think) I’m yet to do… sounds like they’re worth missing.

Kielder has some great riding… Just a wee bit hidden in a lot of crap. Basically, the top of Deadwater is an unpleasant fireroad climb, that then goes down… a fireroad! But a derelict, smashed-up fireroad with random patches of deep loose stone, weird cambers, lumps that can just about be jumps and drops… Lots of people just hate it. I think it’s quite fun, just not worth the climb.

And then there’s the Lonesome Pine trail etc, which are just dull.

But, Deadwater below that final climb is mint- interesting climb, some decently challening features, some nice variety. A technical black-graded climb, woot! Maybe a wee bit of a lack of variety but I really would recommend it. And doing 2 laps- once down the red, once down the black- gives you basically one proper sized loop.

Berm Bandit i want that, i have no idea what i would use it for but i want it all the same. 😀

p.s. there really is no such thing as a worst center. Getting out on the bike anywhere is great.

trail centres are very crap compared to natural trails

There really isn’t any such thing as a natural trail. Its a contradiction in terms. With very minor exceptions they’ve all been built by someone at some point.

Berm Bandit i want that

Multi use Steve, doesn’t brew coffee unfortunately, but it does pretty much everything else. You can hire one from some Hirebase centres, if you want a try, and the attachment list is here The Toy Cupboard Personally I particularly like the trenching tool, (duzzy great sideways chain saw)

Sometimes it really does feel like the pedants and nit pickers world championships on this forum.

trail centres are very crap compared to natural trails

There really isn’t any such thing as a natural trail. Its a contradiction in terms. With very minor exceptions they’ve all been built by someone at some point.

Yeah, goats, sheep, walkers maybe??

I don’t do centres much as I rarely have time to drive more than an hour to trails from home and there’s plenty of ace riding within that limit, but:

Cwmcarn – I’m not into DH really and there’s not enough XC to do to make it worth getting in the car. (there probably is but I don’t know where to find it). If I shell-out to cross the bridge, I tend to go to Glencorrwyg.

CYB-Tarw (dull dull dull bar one downhill section near the end). The other trails make it worth taking an annual holiday to NWales.

Brechfa – Actually I really like the trails. But it’s too far to day-trip and too close for a holiday (re: time-constraints). And oddly isolated – booo

trail centres are very crap compared to natural trails

I strongly disagree. They are just a different style of riding: all weather and with artificial but fun features, like corners!

It actually amazes me that there are trail builders on here slagging off others trails. WTF??

Well, I didn’t. I only made a comment about Wharncliffe, which is one of ours, or was.

Yeah, goats, sheep, walkers maybe??

I’d love to see you riding a goat trail or sheep trail for any distance, assuming you can find one. Most of what people refer to on here as natural trails are either bridleways, footpaths, or the remnants of motorcycle enduros or similar. Sometimes they are, like Wharncliffe where someone has raked the debris off the forest floor to form a line and its then been ridden in, but natural? Never! Pretty much like most of the woodlands in the UK too. The point being they didn’t just happen. Someone did something for them to exist, Just like they do at trail centres. So your point is?

Well, I didn’t

Never said you did, however, if you have a guilty conscience please feel free to knock yourself out

Took the kids round a couple of Blue routes recently, squeezing in odd bits of Red. Hamsterley Blue – why?????????? Nothing in the way of singletrack, very bland & boring & kids agreed, Gisburn slightly better (red is good), Glentress & Forest of Dean much better (all Blue routes). Routes at Machynlleth (except Cli-mach) all very dull. Big descent back into town on tarmac? Short route at Nant-y-Arian – offers nothing the Conti trail hasn’t already covered. Brechfa was a mudfest when I went & in places “singletrack” sections had so many lines it made fireroads seem narrow. Brechfa red wasn’t that great, black better, but not enough. Skyline – some great singletrack but too much fireroads, use one of the shortcuts and it is much better.
Personal whine – why have they detoured the Wall at Afan around the rocks in the Graaveyard section? Had to walk back up trail to ride when I realised we were passing it.
Actually really like Llandegla, very fast if you commit to corners & are prepared to get some air. If you’re not that sort I’m guessing it’d be dull. Love CYB too, but then I’m a fan of rocky trails & bemoan the sanitising of some of the trails, brand new super smooth bits rather than repair the technical sections on the Beast. Flow is about how you ride a trail, not just the trail itself. Love Glentress Black & Blue routes, very different, both enjoyable.

I’d love to see you riding a goat trail or sheep trail for any distance, assuming you can find one. Most of what people refer to on here as natural trails are either bridleways, footpaths, or the remnants of motorcycle enduros or similar

I can see both sides to this point, Both sides are technicality. There are plenty of sections of single track have only been touched by man through use, Like riding/walking/herding livestock. These that have had no tools to construct them. I’d class these as natural trails.

flow – Member
Number one, without a shadow of a doubt, has to be Bedgebury.

Agreed I went there once, pretty bland as is that place Fowlmead (Betteshanger Slag heap makeover)

Bloody Bush at Kielder. Bloody pointless, more like it. Why use awful loose stones to construct impossible climbs? Maybe I missed the point, but I absolutely hated it.

Carron Valley’s alright – the new freeride section makes up for some disappointing singletack. And it’s close enough to Edinburgh to make a pleasant alternative to Glentress on those busy busy weekends.

It actually amazes me that there are trail builders on here slagging off others trails. WTF??

You mean constructive criticism, surely. 😉 I’d say if it’s a first attempt by volunteers at building something, or you couldn’t ride it that particular day, or you’ve never ridden it and you’re formulating a rather contrived opinion after looking at some wobbly headcam footage to get some attention on an internet forum, a lot of the comments aren’t very fair.

If on the other hand it’s a project backed by a national body with years of experience in the field and which seeks to define best practice, built by professional contractors, and promoted as a riding destination for people outside the local area, yet turns out to be the sort of thing the local kids make over half term holidays, it’s fair game for a slagging. I’m looking at you, Sherwood Pines.

Llandegla

I can’t think of another two that I’d offend to say they were even remotely as bad as Llandegla.

While Cannock isn’t my cuppa, they make a good job out of what they have and I admire the trail centre for that. Hamsterley wasn’t great to be fair.

But Degla’s great!

Definitely Ae and it’s worth all three “worst” votes. Rode it today for the 1st time in about 5 years and I forgot how bad it is. Absolutely terrible trail.

Ah well – I am looking forward to doing my monster loop – my house round to Ae, up the shredder, down for a cuppa at the cafe, then back to my house! 🙂

We rode The Justice Trail in Jedburgh very shortly after it opened and that was awful. Very badly signed, just a load of trails round the edges of fields and fresh cut “singletrack”. In the end after getting lost yet again we got onto the road, rode back to town, got in the car and drove up to Glentress where we spent the rest of the day.

To be fair to the place, I think it had just been “opened” too soon, I know it’s not really a trail centre in the traditional sense and I’m sure it’s improved a lot since then.

Cwmcarn for me

I have gotten on with most trail centres on the basis that they are simple and easy… but I would set fire to the NFT in Grizedale if given the chance. Or make every one go the opposite way.
No Trail centre should be 75% climbing with turns that ruin every good descent, unless you are a local.

Jeeze you lot dunalf whinge, eh?

😐

Nevis Red DH though is just graded WRONG though!

only if you’re thinking along the lines of XC rather than DH

pleasant alternative to Glentress on those busy busy weekends.

not when a lap only takes half an hour and 28mins of it are rubbish