and the law fairly and reasonably grants human rights so we do have human rights ! hurray !!

It’s a hypothetical construct that has no place in the natural world.

What about the Social World? Is that a ‘hypothetical construct’ as well? Surely Human Socialisation is part of Nature?

I’m just off out to walk the dog. Be interesting to see how this debate unfolds.

As do you….

So we both have rights then.

Next!

mike would it be correct to assume you have stuck to your principals and not tried to claim any compensation for your accident.

Nick

The law takes over where religion left off I guess.

I’m genuinely not trying to be provocative. It’s the assumption that people have automatic rights is completely barking. You earn your ‘rights’ or more correctly, priveleges.

Seriously. It’s a hypothetical construct that has no place in the natural world.

The irony of writing this on the internet, not on a cave wall.

Crankboy

Yes you are correct. It was an accident. No ones fault. Accidents happen and I was lucky to live and walk again. It strengthened me as a person and for that I’m very grateful.

You earn your ‘rights’ or more correctly, priveleges.

How do I earn the right to life? How does a day-old baby earn that right? They haven’t done anything to earn it yet.

Seriously. It’s a hypothetical construct that has no place in the natural world

poster needs to read up on Ethical Subjectivism…

It’s the assumption that people have automatic rights is completely barking

while I’m up for a debate, you’re wrong. Go read up on the work of the ECHR if you want to know why you’re wrong.

It’s a hypothetical construct that has no place in the natural world.

What about the Social World? Is that a ‘hypothetical construct’ as well? Surely Human Socialisation is part of Nature?

I’m just off out to walk the dog. Be interesting to see how this debate unfolds.

they haven’t done anything to earn it yet.

Bloody scroungers

Oh ****, there’s a glitch in the Matrix.

Bloody scroungers

Coming over here, demanding our breast milk. Well, not mine, obviously.

Ben you’re spot on as the child’s parents will exercise their priveleges to keep him/her alive.

I am cognisant that my views differ from the norm. I am quite content with that. Who’d want to live in a homogenous society being told what you should believe in, such as human rights….!

Ben you’re spot on as the child’s parents will exercise their priveleges to keep he/she alive.

So orphans or children with bad parents don’t have a right to life?

In the context of the big bad chaotic universe no we don’t have any rights. In the context of our society we do have a bunch of rights.

Sure enough they’re getting whittled away, but we do have some.

So orphans or children with bad parents don’t have a right to life?

That will be why abortion is allowable up to the 57th trimester.

assumption that people have automatic rights

Isn’t the main thing about a right that it doesn’t have to be earned?

In fact it’s kind of the whole point.

I am cognisant that my views differ from the norm. I am quite content with that.

I take it you live in a cave away from society as a whole then? You don’t for instance; phone the cops when you get assaulted?

No because there’s……you get it……no ‘rights’…

Doesn’t mean it’s not sad and tragic. But the natural world is sad and tragic.

But the natural world is sad and tragic.

Again, the irony of invoking the “natural world” on the internet. Why aren’t you living in a cave eating insects? Because you live in a society and a civilisation. Which grants you rights.

“I am cognisant that my views differ from the norm. I am quite content with that”
Well your view is that “No human or animal has any ‘right’ to anything” that is not different to the norm it is keystage one comprehension of the meaning of words wrong . whether you understand it or not the law gives you inherent rights merely by virtue of being born if you are deprived of your rights whether you seek a sanction or not a wrong has been done.

But the natural world is sad and tragic.

The whole ‘sentience’ thing’s kind of passed you by then?

@ben it’s a comprise, I am willing to give up certain rights to privacy in return for security and the ability of the police to catch criminals, eg child sex offenders. What happened to the Lawrence family is terrible but it isn’t anywhere near sufficient to require curtailing the proposed powers.

Call me selfish (is it concerns me) but I’m far more concerned about the police switching on the speed cameras 24/7 and giving tickets to all motorists going over 70 than I am by this bill. Bedfordshire are proposing this purely to raise money and no doubt others will follow.

Crankboy, keep your knickers on. I get what your saying. I just don’t agree with the principle. Keep up!

I just don’t agree with the principle.

I don’t agree with the principle of shite weather in winter but I still have to put up with it.

I am willing to give up certain rights to privacy in return for security and the ability of the police to catch criminals,

except it’s not going to do this.

Bedfordshire are proposing this purely to raise money and no doubt others will follow.

fortunately there is an easy way to prevent paying bedfordshire any of this potential money. It may even be a desired by product, who knows….?

Call me selfish (is it concerns me) but I’m far more concerned about the police switching on the speed cameras 24/7 and giving tickets to all motorists going over 70 than I am by this bill.

So you’re more concerned about the police catching lawbreakers then them fishing for people who aren’t breaking the law?

Bedfordshire are proposing this purely to raise money and no doubt others will follow.

I do like the idea of the Police threatening to enforce the law as a bargaining chip to get more money out of central government/LA’s.

“I’m being mugged”
“Slip me a tenner sir and I might intervene”

Call me selfish (is it concerns me) but I’m far more concerned about the police switching on the speed cameras 24/7 and giving tickets to all motorists going over 70 than I am by this bill.

I can make a very simple suggestion so that you need not be concerned at all.

But we all know motoring offences aren’t real offences because mumble mumble war on motorists mumble mumble.

it’s a comprise, I am willing to give up certain rights to privacy in return for security

Hobbes would be proud.

How much freedom are you willing to give up to live in “Security”? I understand the Stazi were particularly effective at keeping the peace..?

So you’re more concerned about the police catching lawbreakers then them fishing for people who aren’t breaking the law?

Basically the selfish looking after themselves or “I like speeding in the M1, but I couldn’t give a frig about civil liberties or in fact anyone else..”

I am willing to give up certain rights to privacy

from the rest of your post I’m guessing you’d be against having a “black box” installed in your car?

Did we find a bit of privacy you wouldn’t want to give up? Well a few of us feel the same about t’interweb stuff.

Really sorry mike I read “No human or animal has any ‘right’ to anything” as no human or animal has any right to anything, rather than “Human Rights exist but I don’t think they should,” probably my lack of comprehension.

How much freedom are you willing to give up to live in “Security”? I understand the Stazi were particularly effective at keeping the peace..?

Yes, Indeed.

I find it odd that some people can trust Government, and future Governments for that matter, to not abuse these powers at some point, yet don’t trust the government on so many other things. Its bizarre.

You’d have to be a bloody idiot to think this is ok.

You’d have to be a bloody idiot to think this is ok.

Just saw this on twitter which seems appropriate

First they came for the idiots and I did nothing. Then they came back and said “You were supposed to go with them you bloody idiot!”.

D0NK. Exactly!!

Crankboy-no worries.

D0NK. Exactly!!

yeah but <seemingly> you were arguing the first point while everyone else was arguing the second.

Yes you are correct. It was an accident. No ones fault. Accidents happen and I was lucky to live and walk again. It strengthened me as a person and for that I’m very grateful.

Seems to have affected your brain, mate. I’d think again about that compensation thing.

Seems to have affected your brain, mate. I’d think again about that compensation thing.

You’ve no right to talk to him like that.