WC DH coverage have we reached a consensus.? 🤔

You can't even buy a pint for £6.99 in some places. It's a small price to pay to satisfy your curiosity.

shark attack it was more of a question about which if any had better coverage.

Discovery + was good for Lenzerheide

Disc+ didn’t seem any better or worse than red bull. Searching for the event and finding it was a bit painful just as it was with red bull, but the coverage was good, I enjoyed it.

Can’t compare to Gcn as obviously didn’t subscribe to both but thought it was fine. One thing the timings seem quicker and more accurate which is better than waiting for red bull who often seemed to struggle to have accurate live timings.

From what I saw last week it seemed ok. And it’s only going to get better as they do it more

Discovery was good. Happy with that. Will likely cancel post season.

Meh. What's Phillip Schofield up to now-a-daze?

Looks like the 25% Cyclo-cross Social Podcast discount GCN+ is still live - brings it down to £30 for the year.

I thought it was better. It was good to see more of the track and each run. I particularly like the drone shots and some of the wider shots that showed the speed and gradient well. There is room for improvement in the commentary but Rob Warner took time to learn his craft and I’m sure so will Cedric and Ric

I've taken the plunge and subscribed to Prime and then discovery plus. Watching the coverage now, although can't tune into live men's final. Do they do a replay of the live show tonight a la RedBull?

reece Wilson is a natural TV performer but surely he's a full time professional still so just a temporary commentator?

Is GCN a diff commentory team to that on Discover+? I've only watched via Discovery+ and had Ric and Cedric.

No, It's Ric and Ceric on GCN + as well.

After another round, I think my opinion is settling.

The commentary was poor IMO.

Ric was just repeating most of Cedric's lines, it felt like they were reading from a big book of downhill platitudes and they were worryingly slow on the uptake. I could see what had happened to Danny's front tyre about 5 secs before they finally clocked it.

Also the on-screen timing desperately needs the current fastest time displayed as each racer gets near the finish, so we can judge if they're gonna do it or not.

And the top 5 or whatever needs to be bigger, so we can see instantly where they've slotted in.

I'm watching on a big TV, must be horrible on a mobile device.

Do any of them have a highlights show worth watching?

I've not subscribed to anything yet as I've not been able to watch the racing live and hoped there'd be a Youtube highlights show worth watching.

GCN+ and Discovery are they different then?

Different cameras, timing graphics, but the same commentators? Or both exactly the same coverage?

Also, I haven't managed to watch any yet, on which one am I least likely to get spoilers if I search for the finals? 😋

I'm quite happy with my GCN+ subscription.  I just subscribed for the whole year as I wanted to use it for watching the TdF and the Giro as well.

I figured they might have some documentaries that are worth watching during the winter months as well.

After another round, I think my opinion is settling.

Yep, mine as well. I think it's at least as good as RedBull, and better in some places The camera coverage on both DH and XC tracks is better, especially the drone camera work on the Motorway section and the main DH section of the XC last weekend. I like the format, of the qualis and semis, and that it rewards consistency, and makes every one faster and faster on the hill. I don't mind Ric and Cedric and Bart, I think they're getting into their stride, Ric repeats himself a bit, but I'll cut him some slack until he's had a bit more practice, comparing him (with comparatively little experience) with Rob who'd been doing more than a decade with Red Bull and Freecaster is a bit unfair.

Also, I haven’t managed to watch any yet, on which one am I least likely to get spoilers if I search for the finals?

watching the full show of finals (top 10 women, top 30 men) you wont see the result being spoilt on GCN+ at least. This year you'll have to scroll through 7 road race highlights to find the mtb, which is a slight improvement over RB where there were random cliff diving, motorcross and rap battles to navigate.

Just as in the past, watch the women's first, as the commentators may or may not spoil the women's result during the mens race if they are partners/siblings/teammates/same nationality of whichever man is on screen.

Anyone who's yet to watch the men's final, you'll really notice Ric parroting Cedric now that I've pointed it out.

Yes they seem to have got more of each run on camera, but just to be fussy - I'd rather see the riding from a static camera than a drone or cable cam.

you’ll really notice Ric parroting Cedric

I think that Ric is trying to take what Cedric says and expand on it, but Cedric is just spouting meaningless cliches, so after repeating it suddenly finds he has nowhere to go. IMO Cedric is bringing no information or insight to the commentary that as an ex racer you would hope for, Ric is trying but needs a better co-commentator. He does fine with Bart in the xc, but then Bart has been doing it for years also, but in the xc Bart makes good points and Ric gets him to expand. In the downhill Cedric rarely makes any point on the racing that can be expended into a conversation to inform the viewer.

<p style="text-align: right;">Fwiw I've just cancelled my discovery plus sub thru amazon due to fact that no commentary! I had to watch the race runs with the final arena euro pap soundtrack which quickly lost its appeal. I'm sure they'll get their act together at some point but not giving Amazon money till it's sorted</p>

He does fine with Bart in the xc

i generally don’t watch much XC but had it on yesterday and noticed the commentary was better. Far more the commentator and expert someone mentioned earlier. Much easier on the ears

My on it hope is that they don’t experiment and bring in Pagey

I think that Ric is trying to take what Cedric says and expand on it, but Cedric is just spouting meaningless cliches, so after repeating it suddenly finds he has nowhere to go. IMO Cedric is bringing no information or insight to the commentary that as an ex racer you would hope for

Great comment, very perceptive.

I don't think that lets Ric off the hook though. They both seem awkward and lacking insight IMO.

It's just the wrong people for the job.

IMO Cedric is bringing no information or insight to the commentary that as an ex racer you would hope for

This is what I liked about Elliot Jackson - lots of detailed knowledge and explanations of interesting things that might otherwise be missed about the riding and certain features.

I seem to remember elliot jackson was pretty underwhelming to begin with but he grafted, spent a lot of time on the hill and chatting to racers and really worked on the craft. And brought a lot of insight.

gracia was commentating on the french feed for redbull wasnt he?

Anyway, i have nothing to say. I'm out of the game thanks to amazon

Elliot was pretty good, but I'd have chosen Tracy Hannah as co-commentator.

She was great at picking up little nuances in a rider's run, and her voice worked well.

Or Wyn Masters might have been brilliant at it, if they'd given him a try out.

gracia was commentating on the french feed for redbull wasnt he?

Yeah, so you'd think he'd be used to it by now. Also I want him to be good, simply because he endorses my bike (Production Privée) 😋

Anyway, haven't heard it yet, hopefully soon...

Weren't some people saying that the commentary wasn't enabled by default and you have to turn it on in the settings or something? I was probably going to go for Discovery+ too as I have Prime and it seems simpler to keep it together.

i generally don’t watch much XC but had it on yesterday and noticed the commentary was better.

Everything happens a bit slower and you've more time to talk about things. DH, you've go 3 mins to talk about interesting this about the racer, his/her timing, their bike, line choices, all the while looking for potential upsets - like Danny's flat.

Not easy.

gracia was commentating on the french feed for redbull wasnt he?

The problem could be that now not commentating in his own language he just can't form the sentences fast enough to share his knowledge, so ends up with just really basic statements. I am pretty sure I have seen him in some vids and his English was pretty good, but commentating on a live race is a whole different kettle of fish. As said above, action can come quite thick and fast on a downhill run, must be hard to have to translate your thoughts into a second language.

I was intending to pay to watch the finals this weekend but the commentary on the semi's really annoyed me so I went out instead. Nina Hoffman had a good run but lost 3-4 seconds on the final corner. They seemed to completely forget this for the subsequent runs when people were a couple of seconds back and then went faster at the finish. The mens was slightly better but there doesn't seem to be any consistency in the amount of a run they show with some riders getting barely any coverage. I'm definitely missing the key sector and virtual straight comparisons from Red Bull.

Nina Hoffman had a good run but lost 3-4 seconds on the final corner. They seemed to completely forget this for the subsequent runs when people were a couple of seconds back and then went faster at the finish.

this has always been the case. this week Rachel had a stunning top section/first split and then slowed. never mentioned when comparing times to the later riders.

doesn’t seem to be any consistency in the amount of a run they show with some riders getting barely any coverage

agree with this. dont know if its technical issues like with the drones, or somebody has decided we should see some finish line shots of the new hot seat occupant instead, but it seems unfair on the riders.

The problem could be that now not commentating in his own language he just can’t form the sentences fast enough to share his knowledge, so ends up with just really basic statements. I am pretty sure I have seen him in some vids and his English was pretty good, but commentating on a live race is a whole different kettle of fish. As said above, action can come quite thick and fast on a downhill run, must be hard to have to translate your thoughts into a second language.

Fabian Barel never had that problem 🙂 i know what you mean though though
Apropos of nothing,Gracia is one of my riding heroes. My mate was in the bike park at les gets years ago when a load of them were sessioning a large double, with lots of kids either joining in our watching. CG turns up on the start ramp back flips it first attempt to everyone's amazement

 

one things that pretty shit, is that even with the 'entertainment and sport' pass on Disco+, it wont let me watch DH highlights?

Is anyone else having this issue?

They aren't actually ruining my experience but they do miss an awful lot of important things don't they. Hopefully they will improve.

That said, for me, its worth £7 a month to watch the DH.

I think the overall coverage has been very promising so far - especially some of the extra camera shots. The commentary could be improved (and hopefully will with time) but I felt that a lot of the time with the RB coverage too. Not sure about the semi / final configuration - you get more racing on the day but it does dilute the excitement for me a little bit.

For those that asked previously, GCN+ does appear to have full semi and final race replays available.

For anyone looking to geek out over the stats, Pinkbike have really upped their post-match analysis this year.

Yeah I think the commentary team will get better as they go. It took time for Warner to get good once he wasn't allowed to just get pissed up with Pagey.

As mentioned above, they do seem to completely forget important things which happened just a few minutes before that would affect the split times. Think Ric is trying to squeeze his "Fun is fast and fast is fun" (whichever way round it is) catchphrase in at every opportunity, time will tell if it'll be as memorable as "Look at the time!" 😀

I think Cedric does give a bit more in terms of colour commentary than Claudio did, seems to do a better job of spotting if a rider has gotten off line and telling us what is going on where I think Claudio would do a Joe Rogan and just say "woooooah" a lot.

My only thing with the new format, is it's a bloody long day if you wanna watch it all. I was almost willing it to finish by the time we got to the top 10 men. Think I'll be a bit more selective and just watch the men and women's finals in future.

“ As mentioned above, they do seem to completely forget important things which happened just a few minutes before that would affect the split times.”

It’s crazy how bad they are at that! You’ve literally just watched someone go quickest despite messing up the last sector, then the next rider is just off the leader’s pace and they’re saying “how can they find a second at the bottom of the track?!”

It’s so rare for someone in the men’s to be quickest on all the sectors, but the benchmark is always whoever is in the hot seat, and how they achieved that time is fundamental to this kind of comparative time trial style commentating.

You’ve literally just watched someone go quickest despite messing up the last sector, then the next rider is just off the leader’s pace and they’re saying “how can they find a second at the bottom of the track?!”

Rob & Claudio used to do this sometimes as well, it was infuriating.

I can only hear the love child of Borat and Gru (Despicable Me, for those without kids). On coke.

It's unbearable.

I've been watching on Discovery + through Sky Q app. (comes free with Sky)

Its very clunky. It takes an age to find the mtb stuff in their menu system. The timings of finals were wrong so I went on at the time it suggested for the womens final to find it had already finished and the mens was starting.

Commentary is getting better, but they still are not as good as RW, and miss so much obvious stuff. They also appear to struggle to see when someone is riding fast or slow.

Camera angles were better at the last race, and I liked the interviews with riders whilst the event was live.

Overall not that much different than redbull, but that was free, and there is no shift in coverage to make me think its worth paying for.

Anyone know when or if Leogang DH is on Eurosport 1 or 2  (via Virgin TV).

Leogang XC has been shown but not DH, Lenzerhide DH was shown a couple of days late.

They also appear to struggle to see when someone is riding fast or slow.

TBF that's always been an issue, as most of it's down to perception as they've no real way of knowing what is fast. How many times did Warner and Claudio think something was up with Ratboy's bike or similar, only for him to be 3 seconds up at the next split? Or rider x is "flying through there" only for them to have lost loads of time.

Would be good if they could bring back some of the key section timing, the zone analysis and the virtual straights that red bull tv had as that gave the viewers and commentators some idea of where riders were faster. Discovery also really needs to do better with the feed to the commentators too, as we see a rider cross the line and show their placing and it seems like it takes a couple of seconds for the commentary team to react. It's very weird at times.

Me and the boy do laugh lots at "he's so fast through there..." "he's lost 3 seconds"...

😀

“ TBF that’s always been an issue, as most of it’s down to perception as they’ve no real way of knowing what is fast.”

I might not be good at riding a bike very fast but I’m good at seeing if someone is riding fast - would they like to give me a job? I’m good* at talking too… (“SHUT UP!!!!)

*excessive

I remember the early sectors of Gwin at Leogang with his snapped chain and Rob & Claudio were talking about how unlucky he was at that track and I was thinking “but he’s not going any slower, I swear he’s on a good run”. Cue much commentator screaming when the split showed!

Maybe they need a bass player or drummer in their commentary team? We (should) have good internal metronomes!

“ Would be good if they could bring back some of the key section timing, the zone analysis and the virtual straights”

Hell yes! Why on earth is that missing?!

TBF that’s always been an issue, as most of it’s down to perception as they’ve no real way of knowing what is fast

It's definitely an issue with time trial sports in general.

Then you've got the thing where some riders look fast but don't post as good times as less exciting to watch riders.

It's why I like watching Jesse Melamed race. He always looks fast and most of the time delivers. In the women's Enduro Isabeau is dull as ditch water to watch but is always at the top or thereabouts, since Cecile retired! Marine Cabirou is good to watch in the women's DH, less so Rachel and Camille! Daprela is great to watch but often crashes or doesn't quite cut the mustard. Amaury always looks fast and backs it up. Riders like Loic and Gregg are pretty boring to watch IMO but often produce the goods, Gregg less so now-a-days.

TBF that’s always been an issue, as most of it’s down to perception as they’ve no real way of knowing what is fast

I always used to be able to tell that Sam Hill was going faster than everyone else back in the Freecaster days.

Saying that, I couldn't tell he was going slower than everyone else in the semi-finals although it turns out he was, unfortunately.

I think it's just really hard to tell whether someone was going fast based on looks alone. Some riders ride like their hair's on fire. Some ride like they're trundling to the shops. Both can be fast. Or slow.

Coverage generally I think is "ok". I never would have paid a sub to start watching DH, but now I'm hooked I will 🤣

(TBH I probably would have paid for RB if they'd continued being the broadcaster for the World Cup but stopped being free-to-air...)

There are definitely some shortcomings compared to RB. Other people have mentioned split analysis, the key section, and the virtual straight, all of which were genuinely insightful analytic tools during the race for me. I also feel in latter years RB were starting to pick up on some of the line analysis stuff people like Cathro were doing on YT and intergrating that into the live show which was great: I miss the lack of that too. I don't feel the on screen graphics are as good as RB: two races in and I still find them a bit confusing and hard to read, which isn't great.

So there's definitely room to improve and innovate, but it's potentially all stuff which can be iterated on during the season. Hopefully there are people at ESO thinking about these sorts of things and working to make things better.

But on the other hand, I think some of the camerawork (different shots and angles, use of drones) has been an incremental improvement on last year, so that's positive.

Tech wise it pretty much works, and is broadly similar to RB for me. Website is a bit clunky and annoying. No app for GCN+ on Roku is a pain in the neck so I have to jump through some hoops to watch, but that's modern life for you 🤦🤷‍♂️

Commentary does the job. I was worried it would be either massively annoying (c.f. Rampage commentary at times) or totally hapless (e.g. some previous BBC commentary on Worlds races) and it's neither. It's not as good as Warner et al were, but that said it's not fair to make that comparison at this point in the season. I'll settle for "broadly competent and not actively annoying" at the moment!

As ever, the actual star of the show, the racing, has been brilliant 😍

They also appear to struggle to see when someone is riding fast or slow.

I am no expert, but there are times when you can see someone has stalled in a corner, and then the time says they are 0.613 down or something, yet the commentary will still be " he's getting faster with every turn, and the clock shows that he is up" erm no it doesn't and that last corner was shit.

Same with the rider who's tyre came off the rim, you could clearly see it happen yet it took them a replay and some, to finally notice, and it was then major news

“I think it’s just really hard to tell whether someone was going fast based on looks alone.”

The main giveaways are stalls into or out of corners, or rock gardens, especially before flatter/rougher sections, and how well riders are back-siding landings for maximum forward propulsion.

Some riders looks wild, some riders looks smooth, but the above points reliably predict how fast someone is going.

Another thing you can spot is how balanced a rider looks - if they look out of shape then they’re not doing a section as planned, and therefore are going slower than their best.

This is based on me watching most races on my phone - I’d hope with a bigger screen you’d pick up even more!

Hopefully there are people at ESO thinking about these sorts of things and working to make things better

I'd be fascinated to know who's calling the shots on the TV coverage.

ESO are clearly doing a decent job or running the races, whether or not you agree with the semis being introduced.

But do Ball, Cunningham & co get much of a say in (for example) the style and function of the graphics on screen? Or is that out of their hands and sits with Discovery?

I guess ESO have some influence, or we wouldn't have had that questionable decision on the lead commentator in the first place.

The funniest one in the commentary is quite close to me in some ways. Both races there's been comments from Rick about how Evie Richards is going so fast as she's been getting coaching from Tracey Moseley..... Which she really really hasn't been 😀 😀

I am no expert, but there are times when you can see someone has stalled in a corner, and then the time says they are 0.613 down or something, yet the commentary will still be ” he’s getting faster with every turn, and the clock shows that he is up” erm no it doesn’t and that last corner was shit.

Same with the rider who’s tyre came off the rim, you could clearly see it happen yet it took them a replay and some, to finally notice, and it was then major news

I presume they have different feeds and multiple screens to the final feed we see - e.g. a raw video screen and a live data screen. Would be easy enough to miss something on the former while scouring the data for insights..

The main giveaways are stalls into or out of corners, or rock gardens, especially before flatter/rougher sections, and how well riders are back-siding landings for maximum forward propulsion.

Yes, I agree with all of that entirely -- I was talking just in terms of style really. Even if two riders aren't making obvious mistakes, one person can look like they're totally pinning it but be quite slow, while another can look very calm and collected but be quick. Or vice versa.

I’d be fascinated to know who’s calling the shots on the TV coverage.

Aye. To be honest I've no idea -- it would be interesting to know. I hope/assume whoever is putting it together is taking notes and looking to improve the coverage throughout the season but who knows.

Wishful thinking but I'd love to see Cathro in the booth as the DH "expert" alongside Ric. (I dont get the Ric hate, but thats another conversation).

If he decides after the most recent injury to give up on the WC racing dream. I think he make top 60 once last year, and the best outcome from that was we got slightly better/extra Pinkbikeracing/inside the tape coverage.

Bart is a team manager and manages to combine that with commentary, Claudio pre-injury got to ride the course in practise for his previews.

Some weird camera placements for Leogang - why was the only shot they had of this crucial corner a drone/wire/chairlift shot from way up high with a tree in the way? Loads of space to stick a camera on the inside.

Some of the woods shots could have been better too - they clearly picked a spot where they could catch them coming off the boardwalk then down and to the right but would have been much better at the bottom of that section roughly where the photographer was standing.

Hopefully they're getting a feel for what works, the drone shots on the motorway were great but I suspect very little along there made any difference to the result.

@Tomparkin - a good example of this was Rachel’s winning run vs the other women before her, they ‘looked’ much faster as they were moving all over the bike, with lots of body language and the bike hitting the rough, etc whereas Rachel looked way smoother and slower and seemed less dynamic on the bike even though she was up at every split.

why was the only shot they had of this crucial corner a drone/wire/chairlift shot from way up high with a tree in the way? Loads of space to stick a camera on the inside.

the speed they are going, that spot wouldnt get you much. you would be too close and panning too fast.

the outside of that corner though... about in the "gold" of goldstone on that screen shot, would have seen the entire corner.

that corner has had impact on quite a few of the last couple of races, and was the focus of Cathro's analysis last year (and this year) so its not like they don't know about its issues if the powers that be had watched the last few years.

They're as much of a muchness I think, I get Disc+ with Sky and I've been using their app. It's terrible, but so was RBs.

As for the coverage... more cameras I'd say, they seemed to cover all, if not most of Leogang, I didn't notice any massive leaps in time anyway. The picture quality seemed very good too.

Commentery, so-so in isolation, but I miss Warner. They'll find their feet, but Rik must have said "we've been asked to mind our voices" about 20 times during Lenzerheide, I was hoping they'd at least get a little excited before the end.

The format, I watched all of Lenzerheide, but but Semi's & finals for Men and Women was hours and hours, for Leogang I just watched the finals.

Been watching through discovery+ and it’s definitely a step back from Redbull the camera tracking/drones are just no where near as good. The lack of Warner in the commentary box is a huge loss and after watching Crankworx you can see how much better Redbull are at it all even without the revenue from the paywall!