Wales tourism tax

Yet another money grab by the Welsh government….. But this is one that I approve of.

If they don’t apply it to camp/caravan sites I’ll be mightily pissed.

Obvs N Wales will see nothing of the money as it’s funneled down to S Wales.

I’ll come clean and say that I do have a second home there – it was bought by my M&D back in 1979 and I have inherited it.

Over the years we have paid in far, far more than the miniscule amount we have taken out in the way of council tax and yet they seem to think that I deserve to pay triple council tax.

Our house, along with countless thousands others, were built as [and given planning permission as] holiday homes. And yet we’re the bad guys.

I can’t afford it and will ultimately have to sell bringing and end to over 50 years of our families association with the place that is more “home” than my house in England.

I’d understand more if they had a plan for the money they’re raising.

It started off as a way to create local affordable homes for ‘local’ people but when they finally realised that locals don’t actually want to stay there, as the jobs are elsewhere, they changed to reason to being because of the homeless numbers that increased during Drakefords rediculous brainwashing and extended lockdowns.

The truth is the money will just head into the WG coffers for pissing away on useless projects in S Wales.

I’ve always thought there should be a tourist tax – it’s common all over the world – I wish them luck with it.

Edit: just seen the proposals and there’s no plan to touch campsites or caravan/motorhome parks. What a joke.

Plaid Cymru clearly don’t want to piss off the farmers who fill the fields with tents and caravans. They really are f*****g useless.

I’ll sell my house, buy a massive chalet and pay nothing to be there.

But they’d locate where the best and brightest are? .

No they **** don’t. They just go to SE England by default because that’s were all the other moronic pricks base their businesses.

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chevychase
Full Member

@molgrips:

Why? Does it have to be that way?

You persuade google, microsoft, HSBC, Barclays or any of the major energy companies and the like….

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So much truth in those posts Chevy.

No – its the housing. Average wage will still struggle to buy a decent house in large parts of the UK.

No, there’s no one local there to buy them.  Take the llyn peninsula for example…. The jobs there are almost entirely farming or tourism related.

….. And nearly all the second homes were built as second homes – in addition to what was there already.

There has not been a massive increase in local population requiring more homes.

Take tourism away and you’d be left with ghost town/villages.

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But the fact is the houses are still cheaper than the rest of the UK. i.e. it’s not the housing, it’s the jobs.

If decent jobs arrive in these areas then house prices will jump up, keeping them unaffordable for most. Look what happened to Chepstow, Magor and Caldicot when the Tolls were taken off the bridges: house prices jumped 10% overnight and have continued to accelerate upwards as Bristol residents moved across. Take a look at what happened when the Pandemic pushed every company to accept home working: everyone that could moved to the countryside looking for space and outdoor access. Prices jumped up and priced locals with local jobs even further out of the market.

Take my wage: £28k a year. That gets me a maximum mortgage of £135k with a 10% deposit (plus fees/surveys etc). Realistically it’s a £100k mortgage and to be within a sensible commute of my work that buys the square root of **** all. If I were to move to where there is cheaper housing, let’s choose Blaenau Ffestiniog as an example, I could afford to buy a terraced house. But there is no work there that would pay me the required wage to get the mortgage in the first place. Now let’s look at somewhere I would love to live: Brecon. House prices are high and wages are low, the worst combination. There’s also virtually no rental market to talk about so that’s out too. It’s an area popular with tourists and has a lot of second homes, Air B&B’s and the like. It’s an area that suffers with tourist overload – walkers, day trippers, campers, caravans, mountain bikers, motor enthusiasts etc. These put a big load on the local facilities and a Tourist Tax will help pay for that. Together with the other measures it may well help keep a cap on house prices so that locals with local jobs can afford to stay there.

Except if you want a Chef in Mayfair, they can get the tube from somewhere (relatively) affordable in 20 minutes

lollll!!! Average rent on a one bed flat within 20 minutes commute of Mayfair is not lower than £1300 a month/£15,600 a year. Even if you go 30 mins (station to station) on the tube, you’ll be lucky to get rent down to £1200 a month. Average pretax wages for a sous chef in Mayfair is £32,143 a year. 49% of pretax salary on rent is not affordable.

https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/housing-and-land/improving-private-rented-sector/london-rents-map
https://www.caterer.com/jobs/sous-chef/in-mayfair

People want to live here and want to be able to afford a house near where they work but they can’t…because they are priced out of the market.

How is that different to anywhere else in the UK? Where in the UK is housing affordable – compared to local salaries, not some mythical future where we are all Java nerds working remotely from Aberystwyth.

Some data for you:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/datasets/ratioofhousepricetoresidencebasedearningslowerquartileandmedian

Sorry to bring the B word up, but I’d happily pay a tax for visiting places. With one caveat, if the majority of the people in said place voted leave, tough shit, reap what you sow.

This whole affordability argument is absolute bollocks too. I earn a very good wage and can’t afford to move from a two bed house to a three. The jump in price is insurmountable. Yes, I could move to a shitty area, but I grew up in one and I’m not putting my kids through that. Likely that me and Mrs F will end up sleeping in the living room at some point in the next few years.

My flat was 2.5 times salary 30 years ago – now its worth ten times salary for a equivalent job.

But you are center of Edinburgh no?

Those areas have benefited from urbanisation, ie demand >> supply. There are rural areas where demand < supply….

On the subject of Jobs in rural areas and the trend of urbanisation, some interesting reading on the OECD website….

Digitalisation can help rural regions to overcome some of their traditional challenges. Low density and shrinking local markets are two of the main bottlenecks for long-term sustainability in many rural economies (see Chapter 3). These characteristics tend to inhibit the formation of economies of scale, making it difficult for businesses to grow and for workers to find the right labour opportunities to apply their skills. Firms in small, local economies struggle when it comes to competing against firms in urban areas that can produce higher volumes at more strategic locations closer to customers (OECD, 2019[2]). Digitalisation can offer new growth possibilities and opportunities for better and more diversified jobs in rural regions. Some effects of the digital age that can provide a boost for rural regions include reduction of trade times and costs, the exchange of new types of products and services, and disruptive ways to work and join the labour market.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/ae6bf9cd-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/ae6bf9cd-en

And on the trend of urbanisation…

Europe’s level of urbanisation is expected to increase to approximately 83.7% in 2050.
Trends in the total population of EU27 and UK from 1961 to 2018 show a decline in the share of population living in rural areas over the total population, while towns and cities experienced a smooth and constant increase.
Whereas the total population of European Functional Urban Areas (FUAs) is projected to increase on average by 4% by 2050, almost half of them will actually lose population, with 10% of cities losing more than a quarter of their population between 2015 and 2050.
The migration of population to cities is one of the factors driving agricultural land abandonment, which is expected to reach 4.2 million ha net over the period 2015-2030, bringing the total abandoned land to 5.6 million ha by 2030, the equivalent of 3% of total agricultural land.
Built-up areas are likely to expand by more than 3% between 2015 and 2030, reaching 7% of the EU territory by 2030.
In 2015 France had the largest absolute built-up area in the EU – more than 5 million ha, 17% of the EU total, followed by Germany (4.2 million ha, 14%) and Italy (2.9 million ha, 10%). In relative terms (built-up as share of the total territory), the densely populated Malta, Belgium and the Netherlands topped the list with 35%, 22% and 21% respectively.
By 2030, built-up areas are expected to expand across most of the EU. Italy will see the largest absolute increase (+144 thousand ha), followed by Germany (+128 thousand ha) and Poland (+121 thousand ha). The highest relative growth, around 6%, is expected in Romania and Belgium. On the other hand, some decrease in built-up land is likely in Bulgaria and Croatia.

https://knowledge4policy.ec.europa.eu/foresight/topic/continuing-urbanisation/urbanisation-europe_en

@jambourgie, you’re hired as tester and DJ. My interest is purely in location and low impact business potential. Plus, “As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster”
(of sorts, a hippy gangster would be perfect)

It’s the same with most pretty areas. They are that way because there is a low population, not much commerce and therefore few jobs. I’m all for it. The proposed levy is purely tokenism from a payee’s perspective (~£1 per night) but collectively creates a useful fund to protect those areas e.g. funding mountain rescue. The big problems atm are finding staff for low wage jobs in hospitality. Most school leavers will depart for the big city and never come back.

Surely the Welsh language and culture is worth a few quid per night to protect? Then it will be there next year!

Wales also had many EU ‘Objective 1’ areas which received £billions of funding in the past. That’s now gone and the levelling up fund/Mid Wales Growth deal will only provide £millions so if you want to enjoy the same comforts, cough up!

if you want to enjoy the same comforts, cough up!

You would have thought the Brexit-voting North Welshmen that ought to cough up for the Brexit dividend rather than the bourgeois Remoaner holidaymakers…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

Can’t believe anyone would moan about this. Whilst tourism is an integral part of the Welsh economy, it creates a lot of negative externalities (demand on public services, footpath erosion, parking problems etc etc). Paying less than 1% of a hotel stay towards restitution of the locale is surely a good thing!

Wales has lost ~£1 billion in funding since Brexit: https://www.gov.wales/written-statement-loss-funding-wales-result-uk-governments-arrangements-replacement-eu-funding

The Welsh people also overwhelmingly voted for Brexit: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum/eu-referendum-results-region-wales

What does this have to do with tourism tax? Wales voted for something that cut funding to them and is now trying to make up for it with tourism tax. The Welsh government hasn’t exactly done a lot to provide an alternative to tourism based jobs for the Welsh people.

£2 a night is neither here nor there for people that can afford to go on holiday. No issues paying it so I can go on holiday. I do have a problem with paying money because of the Welsh governments gross incompetence.

The Welsh people also overwhelmingly voted for Brexit

That’s not overwhelming.

Wales voted for something that cut funding to them

Well, we were told that there wouldn’t be a cut, in fairness. The main problem was that people believed the government.

The Welsh government hasn’t exactly done a lot to provide an alternative to tourism based jobs for the Welsh people.

There are a number of schemes, whether or not they work is the real question.

@molgrips

There are a number of schemes, whether or not they work is the real question.

Whether or not they can ever work is the real question.

It’s not the Welsh governments job to “create jobs” – it’s their job to ensure that businesses that want to locate in Wales can thrive. But the job creation thing is business’ role – and big business wants a big pool of people to choose from. With the best will in the world the Welsh government can’t magic up half a million well-educated people in rural wales within half an hour’s drive of Landridod Wells (population 5000 – quite a big town for the area.)

At some point, people have to take responsibility for the choices they make. That’s why loads of the kids leave – because opportunity is better elsewhere. And that’s not the fault of the businesses or of the Welsh government. It’s just a fact of life.

And still. Housing is cheap, cheap, cheap.

The second homeowners thing is a load of crap and utterly misrepresented by the scummy nationalists. 6% of homeowners in Gwynedd own a second home – the majority of them in Gwynedd. That’s locals soaking up the local second home stock – not “incomers” like Plaid keep screaming about. When you compare census-data on second home ownership and council tax data that supports the analysis – most of the second-home owners people who own second homes live local. (So the council tax double or triple-whammy hits the locals.) And still, outside of the “mayfair” areas, plenty of cheap(-er than the rest of the UK) and available housing.

It’s not the Welsh governments job to “create jobs”

Disagree with this completely.

It is the job of the government to create the conditions that companies can use to create jobs, but how that gets done varies a lot. It might be simply building the roads that companies need to get their goods in and out, or it might be creating tax breaks to encourage businesses to set up. Or it might be educating people so that they have the skills that lead to the innovations required to create jobs etc. All jobs depend on governments in some way.

It’s just a fact of life.

Lots of countries have started poor and gone on to grow strong economies.

Japan
South Korea
Ireland

And more I’m sure. So I don’t think having a poor economy is an intrinsic characteristic of geography.

6% of homeowners in Gwynedd own a second home – the majority of them in Gwynedd.

Bottom line: is it fair that people can buy two of a limited resource when others have none? Your answer to this depends on your political compass (so I think I know what your answer will be) and that, IMO, depends on your level of empathy for people who aren’t in your immediate social or familial group.

most of the second-home owners people who own second homes live local

Is that to rent them out to tourists? So we’re back to the problem of communities actually disappearing, yes?

@molgrips

Disagree with this completely.

Oh you do do you? Why not quote my whole sentence?

It’s not the Welsh governments job to “create jobs” – it’s their job to ensure that businesses that want to locate in Wales can thrive. But the job creation thing is business’ role – and big business wants a big pool of people to choose from

So, actually what you said. You’re just disagreeing for disagreeing’s sake.

Bottom line: is it fair that people can buy two of a limited resource when others have none?Bottom line: is it fair that people can buy two of a limited resource when others have none?

There are plenty of cheap houses in wales. Plenty. If you can’t afford a home in Wales – where houses are cheaper than the much of the rest of the UK – then you need to get a better job. If the jobs aren’t there – then unfortunately like the rest of the bloody country you need to go where they are.

That’s fair. Get off your shiftless arse and go and get a better job instead of sitting in your pants repeating the lie that there are no houses and that second home owners are driving the prices up – because other than in the Mayfair destinations they are not.

Cheap housing available all over the place in Wales. It’s a a giant lie to say there isn’t. If you choose to stay, when many others move away to better their prospects, then that’s your choice. OWN it and don’t moan about it.

So we’re back to the problem of communities actually disappearing, yes?

Second homes have been the saviour of many communities.  Villages that were previously doomed through lack of jobs have actually grown because of second homes.

Take Abersoch for example (although this could be applied to many places on  the llyn peninsula) in the early 70’s it had a newsagents, two pubs a butcher, pharmacy one restaurant and two grocers.

During the 70’s and 80’s there were a lot of homes built, all as second homes.  It now has the same two pubs, 4 bars, 9 restaurants, the butchers, about 5 or 6 clothes shops, the pharmacy, the newsagents, at least one deli, two coffee shops, two estate agents, 3 surf shops and a few others that I’ve forgotten about.

Nearly every one of these businesses is open all year whereas the place used to be a ghost town from October – April.

All these businesses have grown because of second homes as they are used year round either by the owners or by the people renting them.  Then there’s the jobs created by the second homes – plumbers, electricians, decorators and gardeners are all needed purely because of the number of second homes and the amount of tourism they generate.

Many people think that second homes are used for 3 or 4 weeks a year and lie idle the rest of the time, whereas the reality is that many of them are are rented out which creates the places for tourists to go as there are no hotels left there now.  This creates the jobs, which keeps people employed locally which creates the community (and the income from the tourist tax).

Some of by greatest, and oldest, friends are Welsh ‘locals’ – many with businesses and they all completely disagree with what the Welsh government are doing.

Get rid of the empty second homes and you’ll just be left with empty dying communities.

Get rid of the empty second homes and you’ll just be left with empty dying communities.

Edit: Get rid of the second homes and you’ll just be left with empty dying communities.

Cheap housing available all over the place in Wales.

Wales is a fair size. If you’re want to stay close to your family and home in say Gwynedd (outrageously selfish as that might be) then a house in the Rhondda isn’t much good to you is it?

Are you saying that families, friends and communities don’t matter? It’s a good job free childcare is so good so you can still get a job when you have small kids and you don’t need grandparents to look after them.. And elder care is so good that you can be assured your parents will be happy and well provided for as they age.. oh, wait, that’s not true.

Get off your shiftless arse

I.. what the actual ****? You just want to be a bastard for the sake of it, don’t you? You really don’t understand humanity in the least.

There are arguments to be made – Sharkbait makes a good one – but suggesting that people are simply lazy for not wanting to leave their homes and families behind is pretty shitty. Do you really have no concept of the value of community and support network?

There are other ways to measure success than the number of poncy restaurants and size of your speedboat.

Works well in France. Where also the local Mayor in our village is building walking and cycling routes to improve pedestrian and bike access, because he has funds to do so and a team of workers (the village has 450 inhabitants).

I think the UK has got really used to money disappearing to Westminster and centralised decision making (I’ve worked on UK cycle lanes and the decision goes all the way to London before it’s made) that we can be a bit cynical about things like this. But we should applaud them – after all people in Wales will be able to vote on the people that raise and spend the money.

Any chipping away at the UK being 95% centralised has got to be a good thing.

There are other ways to measure success than the number of poncy restaurants and size of your speedboat.

Absolutely…. Like creating jobs for people to stay in an area for and “saving” a community.

It may not be the same type of community you’d like but it’s better than none.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Unfortunately your comment shows just how bigoted some people are.

The UK is not 95% centralised – that’s just stilly talk.

Lots of countries have started poor and gone on to grow strong economies.

Japan
South Korea
Ireland

Japan and South Korea industralised after WW2 thanks to authoritarian governments that managed the economy, and receiving massive injections of aid from the US. Neither of those things can be copied by Wales.

Wales was in fact on the Irish development model – persuade Germany to give you tons of money via the EU – but the voters of Wales voted in favour of Brexit so…yeah, taxing inbound tourists £2 a night will fix that…

One of the biggest issues is the way static site wners treat those with vans. Very restrictive license deals (wi got told to take over the bills by our in-laws after they fell ill). We did that and looked after the van. We’re at the point of getting kicked off the site at the end of the year as the van is too ‘old’, but immaculate. All sites have a rule on age, and not condition.

Given we are in Wales most weekends, do we bin it off or, god forbid, buy a cheap property ? For the same money each year ?

We’ll probably bin it off (despite being able to buy a property), and spend any time outside of Wales now. We spend alot of our disposable income in Wales, shopping, meals out etc. Not so much at home. We’re only 70 miles from the caravan at home.

I am dead against buying a second home, and a tin box is fine, but the caravan sites rip everyone off.

Japan and South Korea industralised after WW2 thanks to authoritarian governments that managed the economy, and receiving massive injections of aid from the US. Neither of those things can be copied by Wales.

Of course. Just refuting the idea that nothing can change. It obviously can. I don’t see why we should have to let money decide everything. Money is significant (I’m not a communist) but other things are important too.

I had to leave the countryside and go and work in cities, which I hate. If I were starting out now I’d probably be applying for remote jobs, and bringing money out of probably London and into a small rural town. Which, I appreciate, would push up house prices as well if everyone did it.

If I were starting out now I’d probably be applying for remote jobs, and bringing money out of probably London and into a small rural town.

If you were a fresh 18 year old (or a fresh grad) applying for remote work jobs from rural Wales now, you wouldn’t be offered “London money”.

@molgrips

Wales is a fair size. If you’re want to stay close to your family and home in say Gwynedd (outrageously selfish as that might be) then a house in the Rhondda isn’t much good to you is it?

No, but the house couple of miles away is absolutely available to you. There’s loads of them, all over Gwynedd.

There’s loads of them, all over Gwynedd.

Right. So it’s all made up and evreryone’s a bunch of whingers, right?

If you were a fresh 18 year old (or a fresh grad) applying for remote work jobs from rural Wales now, you wouldn’t be offered “London money”.

You misunderstand. I mean money would be earned in London and spent in Wales.

@molgrips:

Right. So it’s all made up and evreryone’s a bunch of whingers, right?

The ones whinging about it? Yes. Yes, I am saying absolutely that. 100% I’m making that assertion. The ones moaning are the Plaid Cymru types generating the same old 70’s and 80’s Welsh Nationalism noise. It’s absolutely a load of crap.

Quick look on rightmove can help you – houses sub 150k in Gwynedd on rightmove just today – that’s 312. Of the 1321 properties currently on sale. Based on county population size and housing available there’s more houses available in Gwynedd per head of population than are available in Nottingham – and roughly three times the equivalent proportion of affordable houses.

Sorry, nothing in Abersoch at the moment, but there’s plenty of affordable houses and flats on sale in Pwllheli – a 12 minute drive away, which is close enough if you want to stick near yer mum eh?

I am indeed saying it’s crap. It’s a narrative being driven by the dumb, whiny, Plaid Cymru brexiter-types – who hate the English, and hate any locals who don’t feel the same way they do to boot. It’s a sickening victim mentality that was on the wane since the bad old days of my childhood where it wasn’t uncommon for houses to get burned. But since the banking crisis of 2008 and the stagnation of wages since then it’s been on the rise and rearing it’s ugly head again – along with Cofiwch Dryweryn graffiti getting plastered all over the place by young neds who’s mothers weren’t even born when they sunk the village.

There’s a pattern of idiot nationalism getting it’s handhold during times of economic woe throughout history. It’s not a surprise that it’s happening again now.

Don’t fall for it. It’s a load of crap and it’s being driven and exploited by horrible people who’ve got an agenda.

There are houses in wales. Second home owners are a net good to towns that would otherwise have died out long ago. Wales is a tourist and farming economy – it’s not a service-industry economic powerhouse and in this economy it NEVER will be. That’s just reality. And you could wish for it to be different – but it isn’t and won’t be – and people who can’t accept reality are idiot fantasist dreamers.

Wales is a fantastic place to live. I love it. Always have. It’s why I live here – and could throw a stone over the border to Gwynedd and know it well. It’s a fantastic place to come on holiday – and I would urge people to do so – I prefer it to the lake district (Wales has beaches) and Cornwall (Wales has mountains). It’s cheap compared to the Lakes & Cornwall too – it still caters to the impoverished mountain climber and hasn’t disappeared up it’s own arse in a cloud of middle-class sensibility. And that goes for property too – house are affordable and plentiful. It’s the jobs – and that ain’t going to change.

So yeah. I’ll pit my lifetime of experience and knowledge of the local area and local sensibilities against what you read in the papers from miles away and I stand by it.

Sorry, nothing in Abersoch at the moment, but there’s plenty of affordable houses and flats on sale in Pwllheli

Affordable homes? No there isn’t.

There were 5 built as part of a development about 8 years ago….. Very nice indeed, near the village centre.

……. They couldn’t sell a single one for 6 years as nobody local wanted them!

In the end the council had to change the rules as to who could buy them.

What surprises me is how governments and businesses have endless ways of making things cost more, or make things that were free cost something. It’s only a few quid here and there after all and in this case it obviously won’t stop people going!

I do wonder if the everythings too cheap people of the internet. Bid against themselves on ebay or pay more than people are asking in shops or any other auction. This notion of wanting to pay more for things all the time is weird to say the least and smacks of stupidity or vested interests.

This notion of wanting to pay more for things all the time is weird to say the least and smacks of stupidity or vested interests.

There are a lot of things that we’ve got used to paying a cheaper price for that shouldn’t be that cheap. Often it’s because something or someone is exploited in order to make it cheaply or conceal the true cost.

No-one wants to work low-pay jobs in tourism as a career choice. Well, not many. The only way to get the required numbers is through immigration, people will do these jobs for a working holiday, to see the world etc.

Oops.

They still need somewhere to live while they do it, of course, but will probably put up with something a bit more basic than a 3-bed semi.

It’s a win all round, apart from the xenophobes who would rather kill the economy than hear a Polish accent in their local cafe.

But they’d locate where the best and brightest are? If they’re a startup tech company and they DON’T locate in a city, then you have to ask yourself what the directors are smoking.

“Hey, I’ve a great idea. We need the best and brightest talent”.
“Trawsfynned m8. There’s a lake, a small hamlet and about 2000 sheep”.
“Cool. Do you think they know python?”

I was the founder of a tech company and we gave some semi-serious consideration to locating an office in Scottish tourist “heaven” when we were at expansion stage.  Many of our existing staff were quite outdoorsy. Many of our existing staff spent their weekends going to places like this anyway.  Others had their families in the highlands and only stayed in the city after Uni because it’s where the work was.  We thought it might give us a competitive edge in hiring – you could live in Edinburgh, paying Edinburgh rents, or you could live somewhere more work-life balanced and be happier (the FD also thought she might not need to pay quite so bloody much for people paying Edinburgh rates).  We had an issue with their being too many other employers all trying to fight for the same pool of people and spiralling salaries – when changing jobs doesn’t even involve you changing bus route it’s very easy to be tempted for more £.  If it involves moving home that’s a bigger ask.

three things stopped us – 1. The availability of suitable office type accom (we didn’t want to build or get into a long planning process); 2. The availability of “long term” rental housing; 3. (And this was the killer) the lack of other jobs in the area likely to appeal to partners/spouses of our staff.

They all work 100% remote now, so any of the staff could move to the sticks if they wanted.  They haven’t, I suspect because of the jobs for partners issue.

I still sometimes think that if I was going to do it again, we should break the mould and try it.  I still sometimes have a beer with one of the former senior management at a major employer in Inverness – he reminds me that they actually pay more to entice specialise staff there than they would if they were based in Coatbridge or Cheshire.

anyway, that’s taking us even more off topic.  I’d pay £2, I’d not even notice it in the grant scheme of things, I’m used to doing it in various parts of the world (and those who say they would avoid the area will have paid it elsewhere too, so that is hot air).  How it’s reinvested is an interesting problem, it’s almost like we need a way for the local population to select the people in charge of those decisions – perhaps changing it every 4-5 yrs if you don’t like the answers.

Would like to see it introduced here on the Scottish Islands – tourism puts a massive strain on local, publically funded resources. Folks stock-up on the mainland in the supermarkets, rent a cottage from someone who lives elsewhere and we get left with their rubbish and 💩

whilst that is all true, almost every problem of island life would be worse if there were no toursits.  Your ferries would be worse, your shops would have even less stock and higher prices, rent would be cheaper but lots of people would be out of work etc.    as a frequent visitor to the islands I would happily pay a tax – there’s a weird irony that the Scot Gov subsidise the ferries, it would potentially be better to collect that tax on passengers (especially vehicles), so day trippers, campers etc who contribute to the issues pay too.

Monies could be used to build aires for overnight campers with toilets and waste water disposal points,

Ironically “wild” campers contribute to the problem but are probably missed by the suggested taxes.  Out of interest though if those facilities have demand why is no entreprenurial land owner already bleeding the tourists for their £?

as well as funding rangers who help guide people in how not to trash the place, scare off the wildlife or burn down the forest.

do you already have them on Mull?  I know some islands do – not sure how funded.   I’m not sure you can actually stop those three things (just as you won’t stop locals doing shit they’ve got away with for generations, but that isn’t always great for sustainability).  Your best hope is that it pays for rangers to remediate and act quickly when shit happens.

They couldn’t sell a single one for 6 years as nobody local wanted them

Nobody local wanted them òr nobody local bid for them? Quite à different thing.

Indeed… how “affordable” were they? That term “affordable homes” was redefined legally by a UK government that has no concept of what affordable means to those on lower wages without the bank of mum and dad to draw on. No idea if that applies in Wales as well

I was about to ask what is termed ‘affordable’? That will vary on location and also vary on personal circumstances…I think someone has mentioned £150k as ‘affordable’ – that is certainly more affordable than £200k, but it will still be a stretch for many people – can certainly help if there are 2 of you paying for it, but it isn’t a definite for everyone.

I keep looking at houses in the area I’m in, prices are scary…I can see why many builders are now building 5+ bedroom ‘mansions’ as it does appear that parents and their siblings are now living in the same house for longer due to the price of houses. I can also see why many people are struggling to get on the property ladder – it is always very easy to say ‘get a better paid job’, but that is never easy – that works well for the government to rattle that off, but for the public it is never that easy.

If I was holidaying in a location, I’d have no problem paying ‘extra’ as a tourist tax – depending on how much extra it was and being able to see what is was being spent on then I’d likely be happy to pay more.