VV OT: Importing Antique Ammunition to the UK

Home Forum Chat Forum VV OT: Importing Antique Ammunition to the UK

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 51 total)
  • VV OT: Importing Antique Ammunition to the UK
  • Joe
    Member

    Hello guys,

    The most OT thing I’ve ever posted on STW, but I’m not a member of VintageBulletTrackWorld and know their are all sorts of interesting people on here.

    I’ve been gifted a box of Ottoman bullets, marked as being made in 1901 in the original paper and pretty cardboard box. It’s quite a lovely little thing for some reason and I want to take it home.

    From all the gobble-dee-gook on the HMRC website, I can’t make head nor tail of what I need to do to bring these home or even if I ever can.

    They don’t look particularly useful to a criminal. Haha. They are a random 8mm calibre which the Turks used up until the 1st world war i think.

    greeble
    Member

    Is is de-commed or Live ammo?
    I’d be very uneasy transporting/handling over 100yr old bullets

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    If it was me…… I work in film now and then and often need to work with armourers who supply period weapons. They’ll know the hoops you need to jump through to own them, take them across borders etc. how freely they’d give advice I don’t know. But you could skim through a few film facilities directories ( Kay’s, the knowledge, Filmbang ) and give some a call. Some will be pretty guarded, others you might have trouble shutting up 🙂

    allthepies
    Member

    So you want to transport a potentially unstable, over 100yr old explosive package to the UK ?

    Good luck with that 🙂

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’d look to get it decommisisoned locally and certificates issued – as above any 100 year old explosives are probably just an unstable accident waiting to happen.

    Joe
    Member

    Can we only have expert opinions in here. Little tired of doom mongering, by people who know nothing about anything.

    Old bullets aren’t dangerous.

    Premier Icon Holmesey
    Subscriber

    bullets bullets or live rounds?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Can we only have expert opinions in here.

    Strangely you don’t seem to be new round here.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Old bullets aren’t dangerous.

    take them on the plane as hand luggage then?

    greeble
    Member

    How about ask the question over at ammotrackworld. sounds like you know what you want to do

    Joe
    Member

    Oh some people are so facetious on here: live cartridges.

    irelanst
    Member

    I once flew from Bristol to Inverness just after bonfire night and just after going through customs at Inverness I realised that I had a packet of bangers and a catherine wheel in my coat pocket – so on that basis, you’ll be fine.

    Joe
    Member

    I’m not interested in peoples views about safety on this. I’m perfectly happy with the stability of smokeless powder and Blackpowder over long periods.

    I’m interested in the law.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’m interested in the law.

    which is why you’ve asked on a bicycle forum known for going wildly off topic and for people chipping in to prove how little they know on any given subject?

    bencooper
    Member

    Well, it’s illegal to be in the possession of any form of live ammunition, punishable by 5 years in prison.

    So I’d say it’s probably not a brilliant idea.

    grum
    Member

    Can we only have expert opinions in here. Little tired of doom mongering, by people who know nothing about anything.

    Old bullets aren’t dangerous.

    Oooh get her!

    greeble
    Member

    HMRC website

    Restricted goods are those which you cannot import without authority such as a licence. They include firearms, explosives and ammunition, live animals, endangered species, certain plants and their produce, and radio transmitters.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Google wins 🙂

    grum
    Member

    STFU guys he only wants legal experts to give him free help and advice.

    greeble
    Member

    STFU guys he only wants legal experts to give him free help and advice.

    I charge on a no win no fee basis.

    my hmrc quote = win, so that means no charge

    Premier Icon Holmesey
    Subscriber

    Sorry I’m not a legal expert, but do know a bullet when I see one (having used a few and disposed of lots in a former life).
    If I knew that we were all going to get into a huff I would have kept my head down… as you may have to Joe, once the fuzz are staking you out. I assume that you have a firearms licence and all that paperwork?…

    otherwise: irelanst +1 have a go and let us know how it goes, what’s the worst that could happen?
    Maybe do a trial run with the bangers, work up to the catherine wheel then go on from there.

    Best of luck that you get a Brit jail, rather than one of those authentic Ottoman ones.
    😯

    jon1973
    Member

    I’m interested in the law.

    Around here. I AM the law.

    Joe
    Member

    That doesn’t cover antique firearms.

    Maybe I over estimated the quality of people on here, I don’t know why I bothered asking. You used to get a reasonable selection of answers on here a few years ago if you asked for sensible advice. Now you just get a load of bored sad office workers offering constant prattle.

    Thanks very much to maccruiskeen who offered the only sensible answer in a sea of egotistic narcissism.

    And Holmesey – its ok. No need to willy wave… I was in the CCF to.

    Steve-Austin
    Member

    Why not just post them?

    sprinkly some mellow birds over them to avoid some pesky dog smelling them, and jobs a good un

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Maybe I over estimated the quality of people on here, I don’t know why I bothered asking. You used to get a reasonable selection of answers on here a few years ago if you asked for sensible advice. Now you just get a load of bored sad office workers offering constant prattle.

    IHN
    Member

    Maybe I over estimated the quality of people on here, I don’t know why I bothered asking. You used to get a reasonable selection of answers on here a few years ago if you asked for sensible advice. Now you just get a load of bored sad office workers offering constant prattle.

    Thanks very much to maccruiskeen who offered the only sensible answer in a sea of egotistic narcissism.

    Well, aren’t you a charmer.

    greeble
    Member

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bringing+antique+ammunition+into+the+uk

    ps i hope the bullets mis fire and take your face off.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Does the law really give an exemption for live amunition more than ‘N’ years old?

    I can understand decommissioned weapons and inert ammunition having fewer restrictions but surely if you have a 1908 rifle capable of firing + this ammuntion then you’ve got a workign gun?

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Place I used to work has an old engineer with a load of old tank shells on his desk. Everyone assumed they were decommissioned. Anyway, to cut a long story it turned out they were all live and someone queried whether this was a good idea to the powers that be – cue huge kerfuffle inc police, bomb disposal squads etc…..

    However, before the bomb squad arrived, another engineer, in the office next door, unscrewed the shells, removed the powder and took it home for his son to play with.

    Guy who owned the shells lost his job over it. Would have lost his liberty if his friend hadn’t decommissioned them rather quickly….

    grum
    Member

    Maybe I over estimated the quality of people on here, I don’t know why I bothered asking. You used to get a reasonable selection of answers on here a few years ago if you asked for sensible advice. Now you just get a load of bored sad office workers offering constant prattle.

    So you really expected that within less than an hour of posting you would be receiving free advice from legal experts on your random query about importing antique ammunition, and because you didn’t you’ve thrown your toys out of the pram?

    Jeb-end.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    you forgot add ‘petty’ query….

    Premier Icon euain
    Subscriber

    The most OT thing I’ve ever posted on STW, but I’m not a member of VintageBulletTrackWorld and know their are all sorts of interesting people on here.

    All this time and no-one’s pointed this out… StrictGrammarWorld FAIL… 😉
    Edit – for the record, I’ve no idea about importing ammo – but I’d be very surprised if you don’t need a firearms certificate to own it legally.

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    afaik the firearms act does not include an exemption for antique ammuntion thus a licnece or certificate is required this would consequently effect the restrictions under CEMA on importation, placing them as a restricted item and unless a valid licence is presented liable to forfeiture.

    CPS advice on antique firearms;

    Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act – including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5 – all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word “antique” is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

    If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique;
    A muzzle loading firearm is antique;
    A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique;
    A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique;
    A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique.

    However, each case should be dealt with on its merits and advice on individual weapons should be sought from the FSP. The case of R v Burke 67 Cr App R 220 dictates that it is for the Prosecution to prove that the firearm does not come within the ambit of section 58(2) and it is a matter for the jury to decide upon.

    and open source research indicates;

    Section 58(2) of the Firearms Act 1968 provides that an antique firearm which is possessed as a “curiosity or ornament” is no longer subject to the provisions of the Act. This piece of legislation forms the basis for the free possession of antique firearms. The concept of not needing a licence for an old gun is well established and stems from the Pistols Act 1903.
    The antique exemption does not extend to ammunition. Collectors of bulleted cartridges –
    irrespective of their age or ignition system – require police authority to possess them.
    Paragraph 8.5 note (i) of The Home Office’s Firearms Law: Guidance to the Police states
    “the exemption does not apply to ammunition, and the possession of live ammunition suitable for use with an otherwise antique firearm may indicate that the firearm is not possessed as a curio or ornament.” This is a sweeping statement which is routinely used as the justification for prosecution in cases where it is alleged that an antique firearm was not possessed as a curiosity or an ornament

    greeble
    Member

    happy now Joe?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    kilo – if you;d seen this thread 60 minutes earlier we could have got inside Joe’s time limit for stropping and avoided some unpleasant words.

    Joe
    Member

    Aha. Thanks very much Kilo. That is what I was looking for. Where did you find the second half of that?

    Premier Icon Holmesey
    Subscriber

    Oh yes, it should be ‘Their is all sorts of interesting people’.

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    Can we only have expert opinions in here. Little tired of doom mongering, by people who know nothing about anything.

    Old bullets aren’t dangerous.

    Of course, because a mountain bike forum is just the right place to get expert opinion on importing antique ammunition.

    greeble
    Member

    I still think the bullets should mis fire into your face Joe you’re so ungrateful

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 51 total)

The topic ‘VV OT: Importing Antique Ammunition to the UK’ is closed to new replies.