Unite Trade Union

Just been pressured by a rep at work to join the union, to which I told him for now, no and to which he didn’t reply well at all, telling me I would now have to find out on my own any information.

I have virtually no experience with unions or anything like this, what would I be paying for? A voice? Doesn’t seem enough for the money I’m afraid, is there anything else that I would benifit from that I’m overlooking?

Also heard that the union execs are on silly 6 figure salaries, which seems odd that they would be representing workers rights, or is this veiw wrong?

Any advice appreciated 🙂

🙂 I cry troll

Tehre are two main advantages to being in a union. One is a voice in collective bargaining ie if there are redundancies or wage rises or whatever planned then the union acts on behalf of the membership.

The other thing is representation and advice in the event of issues at work such as disciplinary / harassment / complaints / unfair dismissal.

You will get help and advice from your local rep up to free representation from lawyers if needed. No one wants to pay union subs but considering the amount of folk on here looking for employment advice I always would – simply because unions are very good at providing employment advice and support when things go wrong. Its a bit like an insurance policy really.

TandemJeremy – Member
I cry troll

And yet you still feed it….. 😉

How about a nice cup of tea and a biscuit, TJ? 😉

For me or the troll?

for £10 a month it’s worth it for the legal cover & advice

A lot of companies now just ignore laws and legislation and take a commercial view on how much it will cost them at a tribunal instead of paying redundancy
Having good legal cover helps in making sure you get the best deal in the end

Not troll!

I’m only 25, just started work at a big multinational company, it’s all new to me, I just didn’t like this reps attitude towards me, like I was an idiot for saying no, wondered why that’s all 🙂

Don’t suppose this rep rode in on a tandem and was a Silicone Scot by any chance? Sounds like a similar style…

Some union reps get annoyed because people don’t pay their subs but still benefit from the work of the union in collective bargaining

telling me I would now have to find out on my own any information

Seems fair enough – don’t pay the fee, don’t get the benefit.

heard that the union execs are on silly 6 figure salaries

Either they’re got at their job and should be paid the market rate, or they’re not and they shouldn’t.

Doesn’t seem enough for the money I’m afraid

Sounds like he didn’t do a great job of explaining why it would be worth considering and what the benefits were.

Have you had a look at the Member Services page, the Member Benefits page and the Campaigns page of their website? It explains what they’re up to.
http://www.unitetheunion.org/member_services.aspx
http://www.unitetheunion.org/campaigns.aspx
http://www.unitetheunion.org/member_services/member_benefits.aspx

Even if you’re in the private sector and there is no collective negotiation, it’s still well worth considering for the employment advice and legal services aspect. You only have to look at the number of “Can my employer do this? Been screwed” type threads on here…

geminafantasy –

I’m only 25, just started work at a big multinational company, it’s all new to me, I just didn’t like this reps attitude towards me, like I was an idiot for saying no, wondered why that’s all You need to work out how big the role of the Union is in your company (and if your company is a subsidiary bear in mind it may not be the same as the parent). Unfortunately there are a lot of union reps with bad attitudes. If the union is not officially recognised by the management I wouldn’t bother. If it is officially recognised then you need to work out if the union is the right one for your role (i.e. does it represent people in your job type; in some organisations design engineers and fitters will have different unions). Finally if your objective is to shoot up the organisational chart as quickly as possible I’d ignore the union and avoid antagonising those who might stand in your way if you appear to be supporting the trouble makers.

TandemJeremy – Member
Some union reps get annoyed because people don’t pay their subs but still benefit from the work of the union in collective bargaining

Some non union members get annoyed because the union assumes they are representing their views too (but just couldn’t be bothered paying the fees) when in fact they don’t agree with the union stance and would prefer not to be part of the collective bargaining!

It is an unfortunate reality that many workplaces are “heavily unionised” and if you are not part of the union then you are assumed to be against them. I’d sniff around and see what the consensus is – it might by 95% are members in which case you may need to join to fit in, or to even get properly included in employee consultations. It may however be that its more like 60:40 and unless you are worried about employer-employee relations you are quite happy just to do your job.

I’ve always thought unions were a great idea whilst working in financial services and generally thinking staff were treated little better than furniture. Interestingly I joined the civil service and 3 years in still have not felt the need to join a union. Staff still treated pretty much the same here as they were in financial services, just a whole lot more moaning…..

Interestingly I sit in the desks next to the full time reps and have been keeping a keen eye on what they actually do day to day to determine whether I feel it is worth joining. So far, it’s a no, not worth it.

Work in the Nhs and they’re obviously big in my game. I’d never been in a union till I joined my current employer but coming into this job everyone advised me to join. Worked for a coupla big companies such as asda
and rbs but had never felt the need to join till now! Apart from all the normal
Union stuff they provide me with a safety net should something go wrong in my day to day work. The service I work for doesnt appear to provide much support in the event of any probs but the union is very good with this, there’s also legal cover specifically for us in case of any road accidents etc..
My union rep is a bit of a character and can be hard to get on with sometimes but if there was a complaint made against me or any other probs I know he’d be covering my back and covering it very very well.

I cry troll

How exactly, the OP asked a question to which they require an answer.

Surely every question raised in a forum could be interpreted as a troll?

We had a union in my last place. Bloody hopeless and the reps seemed more interested in going on jollies than interests of their members.

Got sick of them rolling over, so cancelled my membership by email. Rep asked me to think again, just ignored my request and kept collecting the dues!

I’ve worked in places that were closed shops before. I guess irony wasn’t high on the Union rep’s attention span but those experiences put me off unions for life.

The guys in charge were all as power hungry as the people running the company, we could find ourselves out on strike for ridiculous piddling little issues that could be resolved easily with some compromises on both sides and the damage the unions did to the companies was immense.

Particularly GEC, the unions made the telecoms side of GEC unworkable and it all got sold off and broken down by Marconi.

Still, I’m sure unite isn’t like that.

Some non union members get annoyed because the union assumes they are representing their views too (but just couldn’t be bothered paying the fees) when in fact they don’t agree with the union stance and would prefer not to be part of the collective bargaining!

you dont want the extra holidays, pay etc that unions get you well fair enough then F off and go work longer for less and in a non unionised workforce 😆

It is an unfortunate reality that many workplaces are “heavily unionised”

People excercising choice is unfortunate WHY rather anti democratic s well as anti union

unless you are worried about employer-employee relations you are quite happy just to do your job.

You are much more likely to be made redundant if you are non unionised than if you are unionised – amasing how many try to join once shit hits the fan.
Essentially OP your choice but you should not feel bullied into joining but you cannot expect information/help either if you are not in the club.

I am a rep FWIW

If the union is not officially recognised by the management I wouldn’t bother…if your objective is to shoot up the organisational chart as quickly as possible I’d ignore the union and avoid antagonising those who might stand in your way

Relating my experience (and I’m not suggesting that mine is the one right answer), at two companies to my knowledge I was the only person who was a member of any union*. In those circumstances, I thought it was particularly useful to have someone external that I could rely on for advice if I needed it. And I was promoted very quickly by someone who despised unions – it’s not as if you have to carry around a 6 foot red flag…

*well, obviously, the lawyers and accountants and auditors were all members of their respective unions…not that they’re called unions…

The sad fact is that Shop floor level union representation can vary wildly to from top notch to ‘the only person willing to take it on’ to someone with highly left (or right!) wing views who use it as their own personal vehicle to make mischief.

A union representatives views should be just that ….. representative of their members, their own views should be proportional to their members views not at the expense of.

Apathy has a lot to do with it, also as has been said it’s amazing how many scrabble to join when things start looking shakey!

My Union reps managed to secure us a 2yr pay deal. Few weeks later company raises price of goods(world wide sales)= downturn in business!
Company has now issued a 60 day consultation on our/their pensions contributions!
They(parent company) have also issued a £XXm savings decree for the site!!
Coincidental or what?

TJ.You will get help and advice from your local rep up to free representation from lawyers if needed. No one wants to pay union subs but considering the amount of folk on here looking for employment advice I always would – simply because unions are very good at providing employment advice and support when things go wrong. Its a bit like an insurance policy really.

Said it before and will say it again, NOT always the case esp in my wifes case a few years back.
Personally have not seen my rep for some time because I seem to have different view points on what should be said and done. Some reps seem to be stuck in 60s/70s anti everything mode and unable to see the big picture

*well, obviously, the lawyers and accountants and auditors were all members of their respective unions…not that they’re called unions…

😆

dogbert – Member

“I cry troll”

How exactly, the OP asked a question to which they require an answer.

A subject almost guaranteed to get a good row going

However I did give a real answer as well

Junkyard – “by heavily unionised” I meant what samuri called a “closed shop” or something very close to it. There’s nothing “democratic” about that – your in the gang or your against the gang. A bit like your “if you don’t want the benefits we negotiate for you f*** off and work somewhere else response”. 🙁

There’s been no union at either my or my wife’s places of employment for at least the last 12 years – and employee relations, and IMHO remuneration and reward packages have been better than my peers in unionised work places.

I’m not necessarily anti-Union, but as I’m now on the “other side” I very much aim that everyone in the company is pulling in the same direction. Personally, you’d have to pay me a lot more before I’d want to work in an organisation with a strong union presence again, because I actually enjoy coming to work and doing a good job – not battling every day over trivial issues.

I think Unions have done great things for employment conditions in this country in the last 150 years; but the reality is we actually “have it quite good” and there are few serious issues left for unions to squabble over so they focus their efforts on minutiae and power struggles instead.

I’ve not got statistics to argue your claim that I am more / less likely to be made redundant in the union than out. If that suggestion were within the same employer it would not appear to be a fair or objective criterion and not only probably unlawful, but also the sort of issue that a morally strong union would oppose. If it is across employers then has it been corrected for differences in redundancy rates in public / private sectors and small / large employers together with different rates of union membership in those categories; otherwise it is a convenient but misleading statistic. You might as well say “you are less likely to get made redundant working for a large government department than working for a small microcompany.”

I’ve not got statistics to argue your claim that I am more / less likely to be made redundant in the union than out. If that suggestion were within the same employer it would not appear to be a fair or objective criterion and not only probably unlawful

Where I work, the management have no idea who is and who isn’t in a union. Personally, I’ve had no reason to let them know one way or the other

My last factory got “Unite the Onion” in and as a non union member they were a pain in the a*se, bickering over little things and generally delaying things.

Until we got shut down and production relocated, they then pulled out the big guns and secured a very good financial deal for the guys that travelled extensively to support the relocation. We all still lost our jobs and the redundancy package was very good pre union anyway.

The interesting coincidence is that approx 2 years after the arrival of the union we got shut down. The company could have chosen another factory that didn’t have a union, but it chose us.

is it worth noting that if the OP has just started their job, they effectively have sweet f all in the way of employment rights anyway? how generous of the rep to offer to protect those rights… 🙄

I’ve seen good and bad. I’ve always been a union member (closet socialist*). On the one occasion when i needed them personally they were fantastic. Basically stopped me being stitched up by a complete **** of an employer.

However, I’ve worked in a closed shop environment and the union reps were little Hitlers, drunk on their own power and spent their lives itching to pick a fight with the management for any kind of stupid, pointless or totally inconsequential ‘reason’.

*champagne when necessary

[Quote[Coincidental or what?[/quote]
Well given there has been a huge economic downturn I would go for yes. It is also odd you don’t blame management for offering the pay rise they could not afford or for increasing the prices as a consequence but just blame the union for the way the company was run. Having negotiated wage rises it dies not work that union go can we have X and management go of course you can and then work out how to pay for it.

I meant what samuri called a “closed shop”

these have been illegal since 1992, the only one I am aware of is that hot bed of socialist radicalism that is the screen actors guild [america] which is effectively a closed shop.

I’m not necessarily anti-Union, ….Personally, you’d have to pay me a lot more before I’d want to work in an organisation with a strong union presence again, because I actually enjoy coming to work and doing a good job – not battling every day over trivial issues.

I think you clearly are anti union as this statement demonstrates at least own up to it 🙄 As with all you get good unions and bad ones just like you get good management and bad management to just blame one side is silly as it may just depend. Have a look at the German model of cooperation for example and what rights they have with higher productivity [generally]. Feeling like you belong and that management listen to your concerns, take on board your ideas, and react to your suggestion may actually help make it feel like we are all pulling in the same direction and make peole happier to come into work.

Are there other options? I’ve been a member of the Royal College of Nursing for 20+ years because I’ve always wanted to be represented by a fellow nurse, especially if I got hauled up over something clinical.

I have virtually no experience with unions or anything like this, what would I be paying for?

(cough)

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/legal-advice-dismissed-for-dependent-care

slightly off topic, but if you happen to walk past the new Unison HQ under construction by St Pancras station you’d be easily forgiven for mistaking it with the HQ of a hedge fund trying its very best to spend as much cash as possible on a vanity building office base.

All those member subscriptions going to the “front line”…

Junkyard: closed shops may well be illegal (which was why I didn’t use the specific phrase – and I used “heavily unionised” instead in the first place!) but just because formally the practice is illegal doesn’t mean that in all workplaces non-union members are treated reasonably or fairly by their union member colleagues, in industries or workplaces where there is still a substantial majority of union membership.

As to whether I am pro or anti union – life is too short to care: but if you modified my earlier statement as follows:
…you’d have to pay me a lot more before I’d want to work in an organisation withwhich needed a strong union presence again, because I actually enjoy coming to work and doing a good job – not battling every day over trivial issues. it would also hold true!

you’d be easily forgiven for mistaking it with the HQ of a hedge fund

How much more expensive to build is that building than, say, a really miserable grey concrete building with not much light and 1970s carpets?

As a senior manager and a union member, I’d say it can be worthwhile (best value legal cover I can get) but choose your union with care. You want one that will represent you, not someone’s interests. For me Unite would not be my first choice.

doesn’t mean that in all workplaces non-union members are treated reasonably or fairly by their union member colleagues, in industries or workplaces where there is still a substantial majority of union membership.

yes well spotted all workplaces are differnet ot reverse it do yu think alone union person in a non unionised workforce is also equaslly ostracised and viewed with supsicion? Your re wording reads better

Again people can make choices re this. In a workforce of 600 every year we get a substantial victory for our employees against management and have just won a court case that will save members an average of £100 per month- achieved by legal action.
The nearest I have got to arguing about trivial issues was when management said in a dress code that you could not wear sandals but you could wear open toed shoes – I asked for clarification on the distinction as it was basically sexist. In my defence they started it.

Junkyard – that will depend how openly “union” they are. As someone else said above there is no reason for someone to know if there isn’t a strong collective thing going on. I can tell you that in my wife’s workplace (120 people) there are a couple of guys who have been trying to push getting a union recognised and recruiting to gain that critical mass. I can tell you that those two guys are viewed with suspicion and as trouble makers.

Its phrases like “substantial victory” than make me dislike unions! I’m guessing that £100 a month saving you’ve just got your employees will need to come from somewhere – so redundancies or pay freeze next year?

Would you prefer our employer to break the terms and conditions of employment [that they offered] illegally then? Take it up with the law makers not meas amasingly the court ruled they had to pay people to work ..shocking decision. It could be cost neutral if they revert to the original T & C. Sorry to make it harder for you to portray the unions as the baddy here with inconvient facts.

Viewed with suspicions [well ignoring hearsay]- is your wife a manager or able to speak on behalf of all employees ?
TBH I cant be arsed you dislike unions [which you are free to do ]even though you denied it earlier 🙄 I am no fan of doublespeak and it would be pointless to continue this when your comments lead me to conclude you lack honesty.

I obviously don’t know the details which you do since I’m not party to the discussions, but assuming the company isn’t rolling in money or taking the mickey out of its employees for the sake of it then that £720k has got to come from somewhere. I’m just asking if by forcing one issue you’ve sacrificed something else. I didn’t say you were wrong to do it so don’t get so tetchy.

The views don’t just come from my wife but others in the organisation who I know. Wife not quite at the bottom of the pile, but certainly not high enough up the tree to be considered “management” in a “union versus management” argument. (i.e. she has some responsibilities for people and process, but doesn’t have any say over budgets, payrises etc, and whilst she is consulted in recruiting she isn’t hiring and firing). They’ve been trying for a year now, to get whatever critical mass it is they require to be recognised and don’t even have half of what they would need. Management were actually quite helpful for the first while; until some (junior) employees complained they were being pressured to join.

I dislike unions – doesn’t actually mean I’m anti union. The principle of a trade union is a fine one, its the usual implementation that I dislike!

I obviously don’t know the details

dont let the stop you from hypothesising wildly though. Perhaps you could contradict something you said earlier or dance on a pin for me …i did not read beyond that if I am honest.