[Closed] Understanding 'soft' waterproofs e.g. Gabba/Orkaan/Tempest

For really wet days I use a Sportful Fiandre which is like a Gabba but made of stretchy Neoshell. It's waterproof and fully taped. I use it through the winter on the filthyest days and it's ace. Very breathable and windproof.

Not so good for offing and oning as it's bulkier than Shakedry so for wearing rather than carrying.

If you have a short sleeve Orkaan, may I recommend the Orkaan arm warmers as a more flexible and cheaper alternative to the long sleeve.

Size wise I’m in a medium short sleeve Orkaan and XL arm warmers so you can play with the sizing too.

I agree it’s for damp not torrential rides though.

I also have a Gabba and on balance prefer the Orkaan.

Not so good for offing and oning as it’s bulkier than Shakedry so for wearing rather than carrying.

Between this issue and wetting out, I decided that the thicker 'softshell but waterproof' tops weren't for me. Thin layers were/are more flexible.

Perhaps it was too cheap (Decathlon) and maybe the temperature rating was off.

If you have a short sleeve Orkaan, may I recommend the Orkaan arm warmers as a more flexible and cheaper alternative to the long sleeve.

Yes you may 😎 I bought the Orkaan arm warmers then later realised that there are waterproof and non-waterproof versions, guess which I bought! 🙄

That Sportful jacket does look nice but I think it has convinced me that a cheaper/sturdier hardshell might be the way to go as a backup to the Orkaan kit, I think I'd still be afraid to crash and/or get the Sportful properly muddy...

I had an Orkaan with arm warmers and it was great for changeable conditions, it did wet through eventually but it dried pretty well too. I only got rid as I lost weight.

I have a DHB Blok jersey/jacket/softshell thing from a few years back now that is the best item of cycling clothing I’ve ever owned. It’s warm so it’s an autumn/winter item really but it sheds the rain well and takes aeons to wet through.

I’ll probably get another Orkaan next spring though.

 I decided that the thicker ‘softshell but waterproof’ tops weren’t for me. Thin layers were/are more flexible.

Me too, but I think it entirely rests on; what sort of riding you're doing. What the outside temp is (or is going to change to), and your own personal running temp/sweating rate/cool down rate.

I honestly don't think there's a "correct" answer to this. I think you pretty much have to go with whatever will suit those three variables on the day.

I think we all have our preferences built up over years of trying all sorts. What I prefer I know my mates dislike and vice versa.
My short sleeve Gabba is ok for cool damp rides. Shorter wet rides again are fine, for example I’d race in it, so hard tempo for just over an hour.
For cold wet weather social rides it doesn’t get a look in.
I have a Le Col version which is better for warmer wet rides. It’s no where near as warm as the Gabba, doesn’t keep the wind of anywhere near as well. I wore the Le Col at the weekend when it was heavy showers mixed in with warm sunshine, worked well. I had a water repellent gilet on as well, but this was a touch overkill.
I also use a Rapha goretex shakedry jacket, this is an emergency jacket really for days when it’s very wet. Works really well. I’ve sized up in mine as it goes over the top of winter jerseys. Works impressively well. But friends still prefer to ride in their long sleeve Gabba just with different base layers.
And finally to confuse things, for Autumn and Spring, windy and squally, I have a Rapha windproof jacket, no where near as waterproof as the shakedry, but it’s very light, easy to pack away, waterproof enough, but it cost me £70 as opposed to the £220 for the shakedry. Works well enough over a lighter jacket.
I prefer to boil in the bag rather than be wet and cold.

I've got a couple of Bioracer Tempest tops, an Orkaan and the Climb and Conquer jacket - tempest protet fabric. They are easily the best bits of kit I own. I wore the Climb and Conquer jacket throughout winter and it performed superbly. We had one night ride in particular in sub zero conditions where we were battered with hail, snow and torrential rain. We were probably out for 3 hours +. Some of the lads were wearing hard shells and were really cold to the point where we had to cut back as one lad was suffering. I had a long sleeve baselayer underneath and that was it and I was pretty dry and warm. I've also got an Endura MT500 jacket but pretty much gave up on that as it wetted out pretty quickly and the condensation build up makes it too uncomfortable for me.

The Bioracer tempest and the Orkaan tops are ideal for Spring and Autumn where you are doing a ride where you might encounter some rolling heavy showers. They do shed a lot of water before becoming damp. I've never felt cold in these tops. They also dry pretty quickly. They are much more breathable than a regular hard shell.

For rides from the house up to 4 hours I'll just wear one of those tops and if I'm on an all day epic I'll pack a hard shell just in case but I rarely use it.

Bioracer do some good deals on their website and you can pick up some good bargains.

Are you guys washing and treating these jackets like a proper waterproof? i.e. wash in soap or TX direct and then reproof regularly

And given their close fit and the amount of sweat they'd have to deal with, presumably washing as often as a regular jersey? Just wondering if it's a load of faff

I just wash the jackets normally. Bioracer claim the water shedding effect is engineered in:

'During this process, special threads are woven into the textile, which form a physical barrier from water. This is how we obtain a material that is water-repellent, breathable, quick-drying and comfortable. Because it is woven in, rather than a coating applied on top, these features are permanent, even after repeated use and washing.'

So far, I've found this to be true. I've washed all of my tops normally multiple times now and none of them seem to have lost the ability to shed water. This includes the Orkaan that is made by Bioracer with the Tempest fabric.

Gabba gets washed after every ride, I absolutely stink after wearing it regardless of the temperature.
I do use Nikwax cleaner (or even Sainsbury’s sports wash I think it’s called). I’ve not reproofed the Gabba, it’s about two years old. But being honest it’s not like it gets used every week.

OK, am coming back round to the Tempest/Orkaan stuff then (plus I like the Stolen Goat colour schemes...).

@dthom3uk - where are you getting that info from? I couldn't find much on the Tempest material in terms of what it actually was etc. Do you know what the difference between Tempest and Tempest Protect is?

Ta

edit: d'oh, took 5 seconds googling...

"TEMPEST
BIORACER TEMPEST. WARM. LIGHT. WATER REPELLENT.

Tempest is a thermal material for winter jerseys en leggings and has a breathable, brushed layer of microfiber and an out layer that protects the body from cold. This textile has undergone a treatment during the weaving process. During this process, special threads are woven into the textile, which form a physical barrier from water. This is how we obtain a material that is water-repellent, breathable, quick-drying and comfortable. Because it is woven in, rather than a coating applied on top, these features are permanent, even after repeated use and washing."

"TEMPEST PROTECT
BIORACER TEMPEST PROTECT. WARM. WINDPROOF. WATERPROOF.

Tempest Protect is an evolution or our regular Tempest fabric, with an extra layer of protection. This thin layer makes the fabric wind and water proof. On the inside the fabric features a brushed inner layer of microfiber for extra insulation.
Tempest Protect is the fabric of choice in our protective winter clothing, such as our Spitfire Winter Jacks and Bibtights."

Tempest Protect is definitely a material for winter riding. It would be too warm for summer riding.

I got this one for about £70 when Bioracer had a sale on. It's the jacket/jersey I use the most.

Gabba gets washed after every ride,

goodness. I always use my gabba with a base layer, but it's not been washed yet (used less than a dozen times, admittedly). I see it as a jacket, not a jersey.

I've just treated myself to a pair of lusso max repel (waterproof) arm warmers to complement the gabba

Are you guys washing and treating these jackets like a proper waterproof? i.e. wash in soap or TX direct and then reproof regularly

Nope. I've taken to using my Gabba for commuting which means it gets used up to 5 times a week. I chuck it in a normal wash at least a couple of times per week over the autumn/winter/spring. I tend not to tumble dry it although the instructions say you can (in order to re-proof it).

It's lasted incredibly well, it's 4 years old and still looks like new. I'm a big fan.

Having said that if it's pouring then I'll [s]take a proper waterproof [/s] [I]probably stay indoors[/I].

And given their close fit and the amount of sweat they’d have to deal with, presumably washing as often as a regular jersey? Just wondering if it’s a load of faff

I rarely (once every 6 months) wash either the Gabba or Fiandre though I'm 99.99% road and a bit of groad these days. I've had no issues with wetting out but when I do wash them, it's soap flakes then Nikwax proofer. For some reason, they're (surprisingly) not minging.

Last winter, I rode the Fiandre throughout. At worst -8°C and horrible. I use a grid style base (Polartec) and a windproof light gilet as extra layers on the colder days and that combo is A1 (for me) on long (100 miles plus) solo, tempo road rides. I only got cold hands this winter starting off after standing outside a cafe for 20mins in subzero temps.

I run hot normally so layers are definitely my friend(s).

I've more or less given up on waterproof, at least for road riding, having realised that I'm much more comfortable and faster in a wetted-out Gabba. I've given up worrying about whether they repel water or not, as I find that no matter how careful I am it doesn't last past the first few washes.

The big caveat is that you need to keep pedalling as you get cold very fast if you stop.

Big fan of Gabba & Perfettos. They let a small amount of water in, but that's the price for good breathability. I'd probably stick on a proper wayerproof in a real downpour, but for damp rides nothing touches them.

I’ve more or less given up on waterproof, at least for road riding, having realised that I’m much more comfortable and faster in a wetted-out Gabba.

This. I have a Galibier sentinel, which matched with Lusso repel arm warmers is good for about 5-12 degrees IME, which covers typical spring, autumn and mild winter days. I've yet to find a waterproof which sheds sweat quicker than I emit it, so I'll put up with the Galibier wetting out occasionally unless it's very cold and/ or hosing it down.

The big caveat is that you need to keep pedalling as you get cold very fast if you stop.

this is my worry, I'm usually riding the tandem and not sure I'll be working hard enough to get the right balance if ti gets very wet. But then we always carry spare layers just in case

Nope. I’ve taken to using my Gabba for commuting which means it gets used up to 5 times a week. I chuck it in a normal wash at least a couple of times per week over the autumn/winter/spring. I tend not to tumble dry it although the instructions say you can (in order to re-proof it).

It’s lasted incredibly well, it’s 4 years old and still looks like new. I’m a big fan.

Yup, ^^same here, they are my go to bit of kit and work great (for me) over a range of temps I like riding at. I have two (short sleeve with ,arm warmer option) that I use on rotation for regular commuting Spring/Autumn/Winter, but TBH I will wear one in the Summer if I am going to be riding late/through the night.

Agree with footflaps. I have long and short sleeve Gabba and Perfetto though I have been thoroughly wet and cold in a Perfetto following a heavy downpour. Ideal for UK cool/damp conditions, though if rain is forecast (generally my looking out of the window rather than Met Office/BBC) I stick a rain jacket in my pocket (Galibier Tempest in my case).

Agree with slowoldman an footflaps, Gabbas Brill for the it may rain weather but I wouldn’t use it if it was already raining.

Agree with slowoldman an footflaps, Gabbas Brill for the it may rain weather but I wouldn’t use it if it was already raining

Moi aussi hence the Fiandre for waterproof Gabbaness or Shakedry for on/offness.

This is a bit like saddles, there are many choices and personal preferences will prevail.

The big caveat is that you need to keep pedalling as you get cold very fast if you stop

This perhaps is the difference. I'm riding then faffing with a cuppa more often than not on road rides, a few stop starts with less strong than me mrs_oab. Layers work for me here.

If I was out just pedaling at 'my' speed, perhaps one of these tops would work.

Quick review:

Last night I went out wearing my Tempest Light jacket. I was expecting rolling showers but it rained pretty heavily for about 90 minutes. By that point I could feel the my arms starting to get wet as the rain was getting through. Eventually the rain passed and we rode on and I was amazed how fast I started to dry out. At no point was I cold. I was wearing a sleeveless singlet underneath. By the time I got back I had dried out.

For comparison my mate was wearing an Endura MT500 over a long sleeve jersey and he was happy with that.

Last night I went out wearing my Tempest Light jacket. I was expecting rolling showers but it rained pretty heavily for about 90 minutes. By that point I could feel the my arms starting to get wet as the rain was getting through.

Interesting, so no immediate chilling effect? I was thinking that my Orkaan has a brushed/fleecy inner layer, so I guess even if the outer layer is wetted out, you are insulated from this layer of water by the inner fleecy layer.

I think I need to wait for cooler/wetter conditions and experiment with Orkaan/arm warmers and a ratty old Paclite as backup, see how I get on. The appeal of a long sleeve similar to the Orkaan is that is would be easier to wear over e.g. a long sleeve merino top as well. Not so easy to pull arm warmers up over a long sleeve base layer... 😁

Yep, no immediate chilling. To be fair where I live is pretty hilly so you're generating quite a bit of heat and I reckon last night was about 15C. The Orkaan long sleeve works really well with a long sleeve base layer.

I have a really cheap - Aldi special - waterproof that packs small and I keep that in my jersey pocket just in case but I can't remember the last time I put it on.

Not so easy to pull arm warmers up over a long sleeve base layer

Actually…

Turn the arm warmer half inside out, grasp the bottom of the base layer, pull halfway up and roll the rest on.

It works surprisingly well.

PS - given I’m often leaving the house in chilly weather (but warm up as I ride), I sometimes put the baselayer on, then the arm warmers and then the jersey - which makes things even simpler.

Interesting, so no immediate chilling effect?

I've been drenched to the skin in my perfetto but as long as I keep riding, you generate enough heat to stay warm. You do chill at cafe stops though. I generally try and avoid getting soaked by using a waterproof over it, but its always a balance between compromising breathability / keeping all the water out. I keep meaning to try a Shake Dry, but I have a real aversion to dressing like tarmac in the rain....

I've become a complete Perfetto fan now and it's my most used top in Autumn / Spring, they perform extremely well. Plus the bright orange colour is really visible, which is ideal for road riding on dark, damp days.