While I understand the benefits of tubeless, I’m just finding it a bit rubbish.

I seem to spend much more time faffing about with it than I ever did with inner tubes.

For example, today I went to get the bike out of the shed to go for a ride. Front tyre is flat. Pump it up, flat again in a few minutes. Chuck some more sealant in, pump it up, ride down the road and back again. Flat again. Pump it up, stick it in the bath – air coming from the valve base. Make sure it’s tight. Still doing it. So I’m going to have to take the whole tyre off, clean the wheel out, re-tape it, get the bead on with a fire extinguisher, put more sealant in and hope it’s all working.
Until it randomly fails again in the future.

Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape and have to go through that ^ faff again (hopefully no problems getting the bead on). So I’ve got a second set of wheels for my off-road tyres. And the front one of them is leaking through the rim too. So it;s going to need dismantled, cleaned and taped again.

The CX bike has a flat front tyre. Probably needs some new sealant. But maybe going to have developed some other random fault.

So by going tubeless I’ve ended up spending way more time having to faff about with it, spent money on a second set of wheels and a tubeless inflator and sealant – which seems to need topped up every 6 weeks or so.

I may have saved weight by not having an inner tube. But I need to carry one with me in case I get a bad puncture or the whole thing just decides to not work.

I may get less punctures, but to be honest, I didn’t get punctures before.

I can run lower tyre pressures, which is particularly handy on the CX bike…..

It’s not like this is a particularly new thing. You think they’d have made it a bit more robust by now.

No, it’s great. Have loads of tubeless wheel sets on my bikes and, as long as I haven’t cut any corners setting them up, they’ve all been faultless. If it’s gradually losing air, it’s not been done right.

Just put some tubeless Panaracer Gravel King SKs on my cross/commuter, having them tubeless means they’re much lower rolling resistance than the tubed version. Would never go back!

IME if air is leaking from the valve, it doesn’t necessarily mean the valve is the problem or it’s not tight. That’s just the easiest place for any air leaking out anywhere else (under the tape for example) to escape.

Tbh, any issue is generally user error, ie nicking tape. Learn how to fit a tyre without levers, it’s not hard, the only thing you’ll need to do after that is change fluid, mibbe every 4-6 months?.

If you don’t mind getting a puncture, or don’t get many, and can run pressure low enough for grip – then tubeless is not worth the hassle.

Tubeless worshippers will be along soon however to tell you how amazing it is, but caveat that with a load of “buts”.

Like getting the right rims, tyres, sealant etc.

Then the faff of pumping it up – where of course there is no end of high capacity pumps, air reserviours, compressers etc to help.

Then there are special fluids, ones that don’t go off after a few months for example.

Then to top it all off, they carry a spare inner tube just in case 🙂

Sometimes old tech just works and doesn’t need improving.  Bit like rear mechs vs. gearboxes.

It’s because you lot insist on faffing about with tape instead of getting proper strips!

Its very simple:

1) Get tubeless ready tyres

2) Get the right strip/valve combo for your rims

3) Get some Stan’s

4) You MAY need some means of inflating rapidly like CO2 or Airshot.  But CO2 works fine.

5) Fit tire, inflate, ride.

It was a faff in 2007 when I first tried it, but it’s a piece of cake now.

You think they’d have made it a bit more robust by now.

They have!  They make TLR tyres and proper rim strips designed for the purpose.

Bored of these ‘waghh it won’t work it’s rubbish tubeless threads’.

Let me break it down for you.

I seem to spend much more time faffing about with it than I ever did with inner tubes.

Probably not thinking much about how it comes together as a cohesive system.

Pump it up, stick it in the bath – air coming from the valve base. Make sure it’s tight. Still doing it.

User error/ignorance.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>So I’m going to have to take the whole tyre off, clean the wheel out, re-tape it, get the bead on with a fire extinguisher, put more sealant in and hope it’s all working.</span>

You honestly think you have to replace all the tape to get a valve to seal? I refer you to the above.

Until it randomly fails again in the future.

Because you set it up badly with little thought?

Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape and have to go through that ^ faff again (hopefully no problems getting the bead on).

User error.

So I’ve got a second set of wheels for my off-road tyres. And the front one of them is leaking through the rim too. So it;s going to need dismantled, cleaned and taped again.

As above.

The CX bike has a flat front tyre. Probably needs some new sealant. But maybe going to have developed some other random fault.

As above.

So by going tubeless I’ve ended up spending way more time having to faff about with it, spent money on a second set of wheels and a tubeless inflator and sealant – which seems to need topped up every 6 weeks or so.

Because of bad setup.

I may have saved weight by not having an inner tube. But I need to carry one with me in case I get a bad puncture or the whole thing just decides to not work.

Not the point of tubeless.

I may get less punctures, but to be honest, I didn’t get punctures before.

Good for you!

I can run lower tyre pressures, which is particularly handy on the CX bike…..

It’s not like this is a particularly new thing. You think they’d have made it a bit more robust by now.

User ignorance.

If you want to just bash stuff together and expect it to work stick with inner tubes. Tubeless set up requires a modicum of thought and a little care because it’s a system of multiple parts that need to fit together correctly.

It’s great, once you have got used to doing it right.  Don’t give up.

If you want to just bash stuff together and expect it to work stick with inner tubes. Tubeless set up requires a modicum of thought and a little care because it’s a system of multiple parts that need to fit together correctly.

Which is kind of the point the OP was making, so the “USER ERROR” repeatedly above your actual point is a bit OTT. He said that he was finding it hard. He is finding it hard. Why then go and point out that the reason he’s finding it hard to set up tubeless is because it’s quite faffy and he’s not quite doing it right?

I mean I like tubeless, but my first setup was a huge faff. Later ones were a lot less faff (rims designed for it), but that doesn’t mean the OP is going to find it faff free does it?

Tubeless since 2003, no issues….  MTB, CX and Road..

Maybe I should do the Lotto.

You’re quite right in all counts.<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> </span>

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>The OP spends the entire post blaming shonky equipment without being self aware enough to think maybe it’s them thata the common factor.</span>

Sometimes people don’t seem to get it until the same thing is repeated enough times.

Some combos are right **** …….anything Dr Swiss I’m looking at you.

Barring that they are great.

I use clear gorilla tape. Had poor success with rim strips back in the day when they were an actual thing rather than the exception.

Since moving to tape and especially since binning tesa tape I’ve have minimal issues and those I’ve had are caused by the dt Swiss rims being bastard tight.

On that note science officer. You quite assertively point out that you don’t need to retape a rim for a leaking valve.

How ever it’s rarely a valve randomly starts leaking if it’s previously been set up tubeless .It’s usually the rim tapes been damaged so he probably did the right thing on that one.

And pray tell, what’s the likely cause of the tape damage given their following sentences?

Eh? Even I have got the hang of it, it’s pretty chuffing simple really.

running lowish pressures (and being a FF) not had any real issues in the last 7 or 8 years I’ve run tubeless.

its more hassle changing tyres but I think we tend to overthink tyre choice anyways…

an airshot is a worthwhile investment though (esp. for B+ tyres).

Tubeless is a great system and also it has a built in fail safe for setting it up . If you are unable to get it to seal properly then you don’t have the  ability to fix any puncture you might have while running tubeless so the system is not recommended for you . If on the other hand you find it easy to set up then you will be able to fix any punctures that you may have while out on the trail , not that you are likely to have any , and that means that the system is for you .

It’s because you lot insist on faffing about with tape instead of getting proper strips!

Yeah or make it even easier by using UST rims,

Honestly its a piece of piss,

1. Bead the tyre, this should be easier than with a tube as, you know, there isn’t a tube in the way

2. Give it a roll and a quick look to make sure its seated, like you would do with any tyre

3. Attach track pump, inflate tyre (may need slightly more effort than normal – but you ride a push bike for fun so you shouldn’t find it that hard),

4. Admire the satisfying ping as the tyre seats itself

5. Deflate and squirt some sealant in the tyre through the valve then re-inflate

I cant say I see the point or can feel any difference running dual ply’s. I dont get punctures running tubes & dont run low pressures as I dont like them squishing around in fast corners.

My last tubeless tyre will have a tube in it next time I swap it out.

It almost seems you need to go tubeless as its the thing to do.

It almost seems you need to go tubeless as its the thing to do.

Having completely hassle free tubeless for about 6 years now means it’s working for me. Few blow outs fixed with a CO2 blast to a fully inflated tyre and tube saved.

As for Rm strips? If tape didn’t work then I might consider it but it’s not been an issue.

Setting it up right is key but after that it’s a simple system.

“And pray tell, what’s the likely cause of the tape damage given their following sentences?”

“Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape and have to go through that ^ faff again (hopefully no problems getting the bead on). So I’ve got a second set of wheels for my off-road tyres. And the front one of them is leaking through the rim too. So it;s going to need dismantled, cleaned and taped again.”

im going to go with that set of 3 sentences that followed. where he acknowledges that hes pretty crap at putting tires on and has a reputation with him self for nicking tape. given the first thing he did was check the valve was tight it seems likely that he did the right thing by assuming it was the rim tape.

So far I’ve been ok. My first tubeless tyres came setup from Bird – DT rims with DT tape, not sure what make valve and Maxxis tyres. Still on the original tape despite having changed the tyres around a few times – just recently had to change the valve cores as they were a bit gakked up with sealant.

Setup another wheelset (that I built myself) and so far so good with those. Wtb rims / with tape / Stans valves / On-one Tyres.

Over 2 or 3 weeks both sets of tyres lose about 5 psi but I check them before riding anyway. Touch wood I’ve not had a puncture on either set of tyres yet, but I’m a bit apprehensive about how it will go if I get a hole that won’t seal. I’ve got a kit for fixing tubeless tyres with me but not even opened it to see what’s in it!

On short rides that’s all I take – on long rides miles from the car I put a spare tube in the bag just to be on the safe side.

tubeless is rubbish and great at the same time!

i have most sucess with the rim strip/split bmx tube method although my gorilla taped wheels seem to be working. I re-tape every tyre change though.

There is no weight saing. I have to run heavy as hell tyres to make it work for any length of time and avoid pinching tyres.

once you have a decent hole the tyre is junk. if you run em low pressure the sidewalls wear out and hte tyre is junk or you pinch teh tyre and the tyre is junk. i also havent found a decent sealant that works once you puncture in the pouring rain.

I`ve gone back to tubes on the HT 9which i ride the most and commute on) but i had 3 punctures in a week so i hate that as well! i am, however, using up the stash of holed tyres i can no longer use tubeless though! and they are light so i can go really fast!

once you have a decent hole the tyre is junk

You can sew them with dental floss and or patch and they still will work with tubeless.

Sort of a crossover from my French Divide thread.

Three weeks ago I got a new rear wheel (Hope XC), fitted Gorilla Tape and then mounted up a Bontrager XR2 tubeless – just used a track pump. Went for a quick ride just to get the sealant spread around. Topped up the sealant. Two days later we headed out to France. I pumped up the tyre to a bit higher than normal and we set off. After two weeks of riding I thought the tyre was getting a bit soft so I put a bit of air in.

So, yeah, tubeless is rubbish 😉

Genuinely interested in how people manage to damage tape whilst changing tyres?  It’s just never occured to me that it could happen.

If the rim tape isn’t right up against the side of rim, it’s easy to damage when pulling tyre away from bead hook of rim.

I’ve just had a nightmare with a tyre on my rim continually going flat. Air out of valve. Checked rim tape, replaced it with new, 2 times round with tesa tape. Still had issues. Replaced valve with a stans valve as I thought the superstar valve rubber seal might not be soft enough to seal. Still leaking. Valve nut as tight as I could get it, with pliers (wouldn’t want to undo on trail!). Dipped valve rubber seal in sealant (peaty), before doing up again. Still leaking. Replaced sealant as I wasn’t happy with it drying up after approx 1 day. Put that tractor tyre sealant in. Sealed! My answer, crap sealant.

The setting up is a hassle but once done it is relatively hassle free.

I have 2 issues.. There is a weight saving but unless you are constantly cleaning out the dried up fluid then the weight goes up every time you add sealant. Not an issue on a pair of 800gm mtb tyres, but for an xc bike or roadie it all adds up

Then there is the tyre changing issue. My yeti is mainly used for non technical xc ridings where something like a Ralph up front is ideal. The bike is more than capable of more technical stuff however, but the Ralph isn’t. So unless I buy a new front wheel then I need to swap the tyres round.. A 5 min job with tubes turns into an hours worth of messy gloopy frustration. So I’ve ended up putting on a tyre that is compromised for both, but can stay on permanently.

The other thing that always amazes me is when reviewers say they easily manage to set up a tubeless tyre with just a track pump. I have only ever used proper tape, tupeless tyres, and compatable tubeless rims, and I have never got close to it working without using an air shot or the like, and even then it usually takes a few goes to work

Yeah or make it even easier by using UST rims

This is true.

Road/commuter/gravel bike has Mavic UST – tubeless, 2 punctures in 4 years (carried on riding, sealed)

Main MTB – Stans – 1 puncture in a year (fixed in the time it takes to pump it back up again.)

Son’s MTB – Mavic UST – No punctures in 2 years (can’t remember any before that when it was my bike)

Hardtail MTB – Stans – no punctures since I’ve had it.

The nearest to faff was getting the commuter tyres on & off, but so worth it for not having the ride disrupted or being late for work.

But, yeah, it’s crap. Much rather be sat by the side of the road/trail pulling out the spare tube..etc… sigh, remember those days….

you’re doing it wrong. I’ve not even had to use my ghetto compressor for a year or two!

There is a weight saving but unless you are constantly cleaning out the dried up fluid then the weight goes up every time you add sealant.

Hardly anything though, sealant is almost entirely water.  I just liberally squirted more in every few months on a bike I had for years, there was probably only 1/4 a skinny latex tube’s worth in there by the time I binned it.

The argument that you have to carry a tube even when tubeless…surely you’d be carrying a spare tube if you weren’t running tubeless anyway so no difference?

FWIW unless it’s ghetto I’ve had zero issues. Maybe I’m lucky. I find it one of the greatest steps forward in the last 10 or so years.

When converting non tubeless rims I found some joe’s strips that slotted straight on allowed quick and painless conversion, no faffing with tape (not that it is much faff, but you know).

The other thing that always amazes me is when reviewers say they easily manage to set up a tubeless tyre with just a track pump. I have only ever used proper tape, tupeless tyres, and compatable tubeless rims, and I have never got close to it working without using an air shot or the like, and even then it usually takes a few goes to work

I don’t own, and have never used, any sort of Airshot/compressor etc, only ever a track pump.😊

no faffing with tape (not that it is much faff, but you know).

Sounds like another thing you could get wrong though, whereas with the strip you can’t really.

I’m with the OP on this; I’m having a right mare with tubeless.

My was set up tubeless when I bought it and all was well with the world. Then I swapped the front tyre and it was ages before it would hold pressure. Then I ripped the rear sidewall on a rock so put the old front tyre on. I was (I thought) really **** careful not to damage the tape but nothing I did would persuade the tyre to stay up. In the end I took it my LBS who re-taped it and again, all was well with the world. Right up until the point that I got a slash in the tyre that sealant wouldn’t cure. New tyre time then. Fitted new tyre, pumped up new tyre, left it overnight. No loss of pressure. Popped bead and added sealant (couldn’t add it through the valve, nozzle kept blocking up), pumped tyre up, left it overnight. No loss of pressure. Rode bike at FoD. No loss of pressure. Rode bike to work, three times. On the 4th morning, tyre completely flat. Drove to work. That evening I pumped tyre up and dunked in bath; no bubbles. Left it overnight. Tyre completely flat. Pumped it back up and dunked it. Valve leaking. Tightened valve. Spokes leaking. Popped tyre off rim, removed valve, cleaned bung, refitted, pumped up, dunked; different spokes leaking. FFS! Had strop and chucked bike in garage. On Sunday, back to the FoD, pumped tyre to 35psi and rode 10 miles. Tyre at 27psi.  Monday night, checked tyre; 24psi. Tuesday night, checked tyre; 24psi. WTAF is going on?

It’s the lack of consistency that’s getting to me.

molgrips, are you suggesting that using a non-tubeless-ready rim and a strip is better than a tubeless ready rim and tape?  I used that in the days before tubeless ready was a thing (and the other option was UST) and didn’t find it worked so well and was very dependent on the precise rim profile.  But that was with floppy-beaded non-tubeless tyres as well.

Living in an area that come summer is paved almost entirely with brambles and gorse, tubeless has been an absolute delight.

I’ve had my fair share of sweary episodes with some tyre/rim combos, but never not been able to get something airtight eventually.

It just means I can ride and not have a thorn puncture one, two or often more times per ride.

It is probably the best development in modern MTBing (IMHO).

You can sew them with dental floss and or patch and they still will work with tubeless.

Mushroom plugs buddy, awesome.

Didn’t know people still sold rim strips!

Having had no issues with cheapo OEM non TR rims through to modern ones I see no need really. Just don’t scrimp on the taping.

I was out on a road ride on Sunday with my tubeless road bike.

I stopped to make a phone call, and this guy on a bike pulled in to the same spot, with a puncture.

“Got everything you need?” I asked. “Yes, thanks”.

OK, back to making my phone call.

Bit later he was pumping up his tyre, but it was obviously flat as well. “Need any help? Do you need a spare tube?” I asked, “No, I’ll just patch it.”

Then, a bit later, a sheepish, “Yeah, could I get that tube off you, looks like my glue has dried up.”

Pumped up tube, and away he went. I took his dead tube – I was confident I wouldn’t actually need it.

Yes, it’s a faff. But it’s a faff at home, where you have easy access to spare parts and beer.

I don’t own, and have never used, any sort of Airshot/compressor etc, only ever a track pump.

Can I borrow ya track pump then?

It’s ovbiously a tyre/rim thing cos I’ve NEVER managed to seat a tyre with my track pump (shit BBB pump, Maxxis Advantage Exception tyres & Crest rims.) But always been 1st time with CO2 & lately with a home made ex fire extinguisher/ghetto job.

I’m sticking to tubeless on the FS but can’t be arsed on the HT cos where I ride that doesn’t warrant it.

I have a coke bottle, it works pretty well when a track pump has failed. But the tyre lever method also works far better than you might expect, considering all you need is a tyre lever.