Trying to get to 4w/kg

Your high heart rate after a few days of no exercise may well be a reduction in blood volume see Blood volume

Interesting article – thanks for sharing.

Had a decent few weeks on the bike. FTP up to 270 today giving me 3.6w/kg. Hopefully build on this and get it a bit higher still.

Chainy tonight. Me plus three others. Did an hour on the way there to warm up and then the fast loop was 23.3 miles in an hour dead.
I tried to make it good training by doing two minute pulls (we’d not specified how long to stay on the front but around a minute or so each) and then the next guy in rotation was strong so I was then clinging on for dear life for the next couple of minutes too. I hit vo2 max a couple of times during his pulls by doing it that way.

I did 283w average / 308w normalised which was okay considering I could still feel Dirty Reiver in my legs. I was doing 2 minutes at about 370w for my pulls.

Just to maybe help Kryton a little, (as I guess we often edit out the bad bits on social media) I will add that I had a minor breakdown at the end 🤣

We were all discussing power etc and I realised how insanely stupid it is trying to be fast and fat. It took me at least 40 more watts than everyone else to do the same speed. And yet I can’t get myself to start a diet. The days I try and start and fire up MyFitnessPal- it has the opposite effect and makes me binge eat!
I don’t even care about getting back to my lightest- I’m only talking about maybe 3-4kg but I can’t even get myself started.

Anyway, although my best mate Rich and another guy were heading the same way, and normally we chat and chill, I just sat on the front and drilled it all the way home out of disgust with myself 🤣

Still- I enjoyed the ride. Riding fast is fun, and going hard releases endorphins regardless of my weight hang ups 🤣

All told it was 281np for over 2hrs.

keep going dander 😎

sounds like a tough session crossrider, reiver was only 3 days ago

I found a new graph on intervals, not sure how it’s populated though, I know I spent long periods of the last few years without a hrm, however it’s captured some data, all of these are at 144bpm

2019 – 170w
2020 – 140w
2021 – 120w
2022 – 136w
2023 – 200w

now the top end gives better figures for some years, but I spent a lot of the time doing smashfests everywhere, and zero base, whereas this year I’m 80/100 hours ytd in Z2, 2019 which has the second best figure up there, I did 12/79hrs total year in Z2, and that will have been accumulated along the way

So crazy figures on here – I know I’m a chunk lower but not sure how this works out vs what I’m doing when out on the bike rather than the turbo. Assiomas should arrive this week – but I need to reassemble and bleed my front brake as it randomly started leaking. So not sure when I’ll actually get to test them out yet.

Did a spontaneous / ad-hoc pump track session on my bmx last night – hadn’t ridden it for months due to the bad weather. Definitely feel punchier on a sprint and can go for longer than last time I rode it. Loving how the turbo fitness is affecting all my outdoors riding in a good way. Strava thinks I burned 425 calories in about 25 minutes of actual ride time – that sounds a bit toppish but I am 0.6kg lighter this morning than yesterday morning 🤷‍♂️

@joebristol always worth remembering that comparing your numbers to someone else is rarely useful. There’s so many varibles between your legs and the number on the head unit (weight, CdA, type of power meter, position of power meter etc) that it can get quite misleading. Always best to focus on your own numbers in my experience.

@crosshair it sounds like you don’t have a good relationship with MyFitnessPal. I know that there are other services that take a more psychological approach to weight loss – maybe investigating them might be a bit more sustainable for you? I think one of them is called noom but I have no idea how good it is or how much it costs. Or enjoy your body the way it is of course!

@stevious – agree – it’s just curiosity as much as anything else really. Especially interested to see if I do a sprint what sort of figures I’m putting out really.

I think I’m middling on weight – I’m not full on competitive roadie light, but on the flip side vs general population Im probably about average for my height.

Plus ftp obviously means different things depending on what method to calculate it etc etc.

I tried my fitness pal and hated it for some reason. Get on better with ‘Lose It’ although it’s a similar kind of thing. They’re in the process of ruining it with spam adverts unless you pay for it. Putting up with it for now but will see how that goes.

I quite enjoy logging my calories and exercise and aiming for a target of net 1700 calories. Then occasionally I’ll just have a blow out weekend if I’ve got something on – then get back to it during the week. Broadly working well for me for the most part.

Thanks @stevious
I used to get good results with it but it seems to get harder and harder to achieve any kind of quick result to then inspire me to carry on long enough for it to become habit these days.

My weight has remained remarkably consistent since January. I weighed myself before and after my century the other weekend to see how good my hydration was and I was heavier afterwards by almost the exact amount I’d drunk 🤣

There’s also the training aspect- I feel amazing on the bike almost all the time nowadays by not being in a deficit.

I think it was just a reality check the other night that I couldn’t ride everyone off of my wheel 🤣

What’s the general consensus here on method of calculating FTP?
Is it better to do 75% of a ramp test value, or 95% of a 20 minute effort, or is it all unreliable compared to an actual 1 hour effort?
Personally, I subscribe to the 20 minute method without ergo, as I think it is more realistically covering both the mental and physical aspects of pacing out a real 1hr effort compared to an ergo’d ramp test, but similarly, I don’t have the time or inclination to do 1hr tests.
Last time I was over 4W/kg was back in 2019 – contemplating whether I can get back up to that level when I am now in my 40’s.

I do ramp tests on trainerroad – but have used the AI feature more recently. Seems fairly accurate going by how the subsequent workouts have felt. I do think about doing a 20 minute test for verification, or as a standalone workout, but bottle it!

@Twisty I honestly don’t think it matters. Choose your ‘favourite’ and execute it as reliably as possible and it will be close enough.
Or just do an all out 3 minute effort and let any of the software guess for you.

DrISM doesn’t even believe there is a ‘threshold’ anyway 🤣

I’ve done 2×8, the 20 min test, zwift and TR ramp tests and just used my zwift race figure before now over the years and it’s all good enough to train with.

Also- any of the long form FTP tests need proper pacing. If you can pace an FTP test properly, I’d argue you already know it well enough to train with 💡 🤯 👳🏻‍♂️ 🤣

Ive had a few tough weeks training lately, having damaged my rotator cuff with (only light) weights about 3 weeks ago… I knew it was sore, but did Skyline at Afan anyway as I didn’t think it was serious… since then I’ve not been outside on the bike and of course have stopped the weights. Shame as the week before I was climbing pretty well on my first outdoors rides of spring and I felt the weights had helped. Anyway, only been Z2 on turbo since. Shoulders eased so this evening I entered my first Zwift race for a month or so. It hurt lots and I lost the lead group on the first climb and my performance definitely dropped off in the second half. Anyway, as expected my top end was slightly down, but I stuck at it. Got an email from intervals afterwards saying my threshold HR had gone up! Not sure if it’s a good thing or not, but I guess at least it shows I was trying?

Well done @Sheck 💪🏻

I had a lacklustre Zwift race too.

I heard an interesting bit about ‘readiness to train’ as a metric on a podcast the other day. Nothing complex just ‘how much do you feel like training today, 1,2 or 3’.
Apparently it actually tracks really well with performance.

My “RtT” was definitely a 1/3 today. Fell asleep on the sofa with the heating up beforehand and could barely muster up the energy to get changed let alone race. I guess I’m still carrying residual fatigue from Dirty Reiver but went through the motions.

I also had to let the leaders go up the first climb then kept attacking group two all race with no luck and dropped out of the sprint at the end.

Maybe I should have stuck a recovery ride in but this is an important phase of my plan and there aren’t many opportunities left for adding top end. Also Friel says in build 2 it’s time to start doing fatigued efforts not just fresh ones.

Anyhow- gonna have another day off completely tomorrow, go easy on Saturday for a couple of hours and then hope the weather works out for my big mission on Sunday 😀

takes a while to get turbo legs back Sheck, the starts on zwift are harder in C than B I reckon, it’s just a smash fest for the first couple of minutes, and usually above FTP if you want to stick with the front group before it settles

done a bit less so far this week, just 1hr Z2 which I increased by 5w, and 1x 7x3m Vo2 Session @ 111% of FTP, felt “comfortable”, will hopefully get a couple more sessions in this week around life/hopefully an outdoor rider

I know how it feels crosshair, I was deffo a 1 yesterday, was nights Monday, had to be in uni at 1pm Tuesday (1hr away), then was back there at 9am Wednesday, did a presentation then had the boys over night, I didn’t start the vo2 session until 7pm, but it was a case of suck it up and get it done because it won’t do itself

Had a busy week at work but managed to use a bike every day so far – so having a rest day and a sport massage today.

Monday was an hour of sweet spot on the turbo, Tuesday was smashing the bmx around the pump track (probably about an hour of being out but 20 ish mins of flat out sprinting or pumping rollers with rest gaps in between), Wednesday was an hour of z2 /endurance on turbo and yesterday was mtb in the gopping muddy slop that’s reappeared.

Last night I was feeling a bit fatigued at the start but rode myself into it – was hilarious sliding round as I’d stuck a rekon on the back of the hardtail ready for summer – no grip anywhere at all!

Not sure of plans for the weekend – definitely an mtb ride on the full suss – possibly Forest of Dean or Cwmcarn. Although I wouldn’t mind a few hours at Windhill if I can make that work on timings / wife.

What’s the general consensus here on method of calculating FTP?
Is it better to do 75% of a ramp test value, or 95% of a 20 minute effort, or is it all unreliable compared to an actual 1 hour effort?

Whichever gives the value you want to see. Highest for telling people and lowest for training against :0)
The 1 hour one is probably the least accurate on a repeatable basis.

I’ve found all the automatic ones are close enough. Zwift/Garmin/TR.
I use AI on TR though.

In the past couple of years I’ve always used a ramp test to track FTP, but wondered if it was a little false, and any improvements have been me getting ‘better’ at doing the ramp test.

However I’ve been using intervals.icu this winter, and the estimated FTP which it generates from sessions are really close to my ramp figures.

I’ve been trying (and failing) to get to 300W@65kg

@benman is that not because Intervals is also ‘seeing’ your ramp tests? 🤔 😀

Jonathon Crain posted a vid this morning comparing TR AIFTP with the Zwfit ramp and found TR was a few watts on the conservative side I think.

@crosshair

No, intervals.icu looks at EVERY session you do (indoors or outdoors), and lets you know if your FTP has improved. A bit like zwift sometimes does.

I know, but if you don’t do any maximal efforts then it is miles out.
Its prediction for my ftp was about 270 during my base phase when I knew it was more like 320.

As much as ramp tests used to flatter me a little compared to doing a 20min ftp test or simply doing a Zwift Tempus Fugit TT with a slight negative split, ramp tests are far less fatiguing and leave you fresh for another constructive session no later than the next day.

All set for Sunday! Forecast is close enough to dry that I’m happy to go for it.
It’s not going to be the most inspirational ride at times but I’m looking forward to uploading it afterwards and (hopefully) getting a ‘this is your longest ride on Strava’ for my troubles if nothing else 😀

Well, either my power meter had a silly on my ride or I’m now an elite sprinter – seems to think I did over 1500w for 45s. Can’t be sure either way so I’m leaving my family to go and live in Girona in the hopes I’ll pick up a pro cycling contract. Wish me luck.

😂 I remember hitting 2000w on my Kickr snap on a Nathan Guerra Zwift live stream once.

It was in the process of losing the plot sadly and my protestations that maybe, just maybe I was having a good day were all in vain 🤣

Did an initial test, outcome is a bit below what I was hoping.

Date ….| kg | Test | Av W | FTP (W) | W/kg
28/4/23 | 93 | 20min | 296 | 281.2 | 3.02

My legs seem to almost instantly feel the burn at anything close to threshold, not sure if that is a lack of adaptation or fatigue from Wednesday’s time trial. Either way, time to do a block of 5-7min intervals and under/overs and try again in a couple of weeks.

P.S. – A while ago I switched from an Xplova NOZA S trainer to a Tacx because the former was getting very hot on longer hard efforts which also seemed to make the reported power drift high as well.

281w ftp via a 20 min test is decent though. I’m finding sweet spot intervals seem to be making the most difference for me at pushing closer to threshold for longer and longer intervals. Throwing in some additional endurance / zone 2 stuff as well – it’s all I can fit into little bits of time I get.

I’m hoping within a few more months I might be creeping up near 280 watts – I reckon if I tested now I might get over the 260w mark just about on a ramp test

Either way, time to do a block of 5-7min intervals and under/overs and try again in a couple of weeks.

I kind of like over/unders.

They definitely work!

nice couple of hours outdoors again today, nice and sunny, bit windier than forecast and a couple of pints on the river, bliss, had a nibble at my current strava segment nemesis again today, missed it by 2 seconds 😂

13m 17s, 305w, 39kph, hr was through the roof though 188bpm, hr felt very high in general today,

so a standard week, Z2, Vo2 intervals, outdoors

just need to get my arse in gear and get using the weights as well

Well done DR! Good effort that.

I’ve never weight trained in my life and I can’t make my mind up on it. Obvs there’s science there but on a limited time budget I can’t help think the volume is better spent on cycling.

Well that was emotional 🤣
I can’t really call any part of it a success but all told it was a fair day out.

I’ve always admired people who ride to or from their races. It just seems like a great way to enjoy a race and still get some training out of it.
Turns out maybe Thruxton or Abingdon would be better options than Hillingdon- that’s quite a big day out 🤣
I left home at 06:45 and planned to get there at 09:45 which I did. It was 51 miles the way I went.
The masters 50+ were racing so I had time to get my number and timing chip on and then it was out to warm back up and race in the masters 40+ race.

Somehow I found myself at the front! So I nudged it on a bit and got a gap 🤣 These old duffers are slow I thought…
Until two guys whooshed past me. I jumped on their wheel for half a lap but then they sat up.
The rest of the race is a blur. It was one of the most brutal races I think I’ve ever done. Constant attacks!

About 40 mins in, things had never really let up and I was tailgunning really badly. Drifting off by 30ft on the rise and then coasting back in by the clubhouse. Not efficient. With 2 laps to go, I decided to sit up.
But that’s because I had also entered the 2,3,4 race afterwards 🤣🤣

In hindsight, I should have just played bikes properly in that race and gone home. But no.

Anyway, lining up again, the 2,3,4 field looked insane. Lots of point-hungry cat 2’s.
And it started hard. Worse than Zwift.

With smaller fields than on a Tuesday night, there was nowhere to hide. Just a long straight line of riders pinning it. I was already in trouble.

It eased slightly and I hoped for the best. But it didn’t last. I think I got to lap 2 until I was dropped. There was one female rider and a cat 4 guy who then got dropped too. So I spent 4 laps solo trying to catch up to them but it was hopeless. Working together they held me at 15seconds.

Then I got lapped by the field so I jumped on again just to make sure. Half a lap later that was all she wrote 🤣 I think I was on about 85miles at 20.1mph by now.
Ditching my number and chip and collecting my things from the locker I set off for home.

And was delighted to learn that the SE wind of early this morning was now much stronger. And in the SW 🤣 great 👏🏻 X-headwinds there and back!

I initially felt good. Even a bad race produces adrenaline and endorphins so I whizzed along with BBC workout anthems streaming into my AirPods. Life was good.

At 112 miles I finally bonked 🤣 I had been fuelling with sugar but was probably 3-400 calories behind.
Luckily a petrol station appeared and I went in and bought on instinct. My craving’s apparently were for a family bag of bacon rashers crisps, mixed olives with feta, a mid sized dairy milk and two mars milkshakes 🤣

I sat outside and was in heaven for ten minutes as I gorged myself silly. I poured one milkshake into my spare bottle and tucked the remaining crisps into my speedsuit pocket.

Then I had to face up to the worst cafe legs ever.
Finally, I crept home on 205w average for 19mph / 6h50 and small mercy- did get my ‘longest ride on Strava’ badge. 130.39 miles.

I’m clearly not quite as fit as I’d hoped when I left home after breakfast this morning but it was nice to push myself to my limits. (Dirty Reiver didn’t this year because I paced it too well).

As to whether I’d do it again 🤔
I would possibly ride there and back for one race. Or drive there and do two races.

But I’m in no mega hurry to attempt a repeat of today’s mission at round 3 next Sunday 🤣🤣🤣

(Meant to say, the 40+ race was 316w normalised for 56 minutes and I did 511w for a minute at some point 🤣)

You’re a complete fruitcake 🤣🤣🤣🤣

That’s nuts – fair shout!

Top effort today crosshair (this message comes to you from under a tree somewhere in the Cotswolds)

Thanks! You’ve had a big weekend yourself 💪🏻

Blimey crosshair – I was feeling pretty beat up after an hour of over unders! Perspective!

(Meant to say, the 40+ race was 316w normalised for 56 minutes and I did 511w for a minute at some point 🤣)

that just means you did too much work 😂

good day, we’ve all had that petrol station bonk before ✅😎

🤣 Yes. Normally I’d agree but a quick Strava stalk showed some equally high NP’s and some way higher AP’s.

It’s weird but the masters seemed to ride the circuit differently than the 3’s. Places I could normally recover were still flat out!

my legs felt battered yesterday,

Since the end of March/beginning of April I’ve done the following

27/3 – 2/4 – Total – 4hr 21m – 3hr 39m Z1 + 2, 19m Z3 + 4, 26m Z5+
3/4 – 9/4 – Total – 6hr 34m – 5hr 43m Z1 + 2, 29m Z3 + 4, 34m Z5+
10/4 -16/4 – Total – 6hr 10m – 5hr 47m Z1 + 2, 1m Z3 + 4, 20m Z5+
17/4 -23/4 – Total – 9hr 34m – 6hr 1m Z1 + 2, 2h 58m Z3 + 4 1hr 24m Z5+
24/4 -30/4.- Total – 7hr 34m – 5hr 51m Z1 + 2, 55m Z3 + 4. 48m Z5+

so not particularly massive volume but I guess enough to accumulate a decent level of fatigue, intervals has my fitness at 49, fatigue as 52 so form being -3, and I’m in the “grey zone” I did want to push through until next Tuesday, probably will as I’m out on placement for 3 weeks in the land of 8-4 plus commute so who knows how much free time I’ll have/motivation

signed up for the Tour of the Peaks sportive on May 21st, done it a few times over the years, although not since 2019 when I did it in 7hr 3m moving, 113 miles, 3600m climbing and a NP of 234w (on a Mason Bokeh with 47mm 650b tyres 😂), don’t really do sportives, I do like long rides and the odd audax, but it’s an excuse for a biggish day out and paying 30 quid normally means you don’t bail on it 🥸, and I should be relatively fresh and 5-10kg less (I don’t remember what I weighed in 2019)

Cool nice one DR! It’ll be good to have a goal. Look forward to hearing how you go 💪🏻 🚀 🏔️

Just had a quick look at the data from Sunday with regards to my aerobic fitness and it’s quite interesting how it aligns with what I felt.
Dirty Reiver was just 7% decoupling because I paced it so (too?) well.
Sunday to the races and back was only 0.1% at 112 miles when I stopped for emergency food. But then I was dead 🤣 By the time I got home it was 15%.

Eg the first 50 miles were 215w @135bpm. The last 30 were 158w at 143bpm!!

I wonder if I’d fuelled better or at least waited at Hillingdon long enough to eat lunch, I’d have stayed stronger for longer 🤔

That’s why it’s fun to push the limits I suppose- see what you can learn 😀

Anyway- chainy tonight. No takers on the group so far as they all rode yesterday but if someone else is going I may give it a whirl. Then I’ll probably start recovery week early 😴 🤣